Does anyone know the truth?

reply to post by BohemianBrim


Your signature is the illness of humanity. Meditation is the Prescription. Consciousness is the Cure.

There are very specific ways that we establish what is true, what is real.

The biggest factor is repeat-ability. That is what the scientific method is all about. Most of what we know and believe was put together in our brains as infants, seeing, hearing, touching, tasting the world. These are our base experiences that we have learned through a great deal of repeated experience. That we can communicate with each other, and come to an agreement about most of reality only confirms our perspectives of reality. There are always subtle differences in our perspectives of the world, but there is enough to agree upon. We further test our perspectives of reality through games and sports, and our overall ability to make things happen.

Then we encounter more subjective things, taste in music, art, literature, philosophy, religion, abstract thought. When we communicate these things, we find far greater interpretations of reality. These abstract concepts can not be easily tested in the physical world. Mainly we share our perspectives through discussions and debates, such as these forums.

Then there are those things we can not confirm through repeat-ability. Rumor, myth, events and observations of phenomenon encountered by normal rational people, by all accounts, except for the experiences that no one else can confirm to exist. These experiences can be any number of well known things, from a dream where we feel that we are encountering something real that exists at a higher plane of existence, to clairvoyance and telepathy, sightings of UFOs and aliens, bigfoot, ghosts, spirits, dejavu. These are experiences few people ever claim to have witnessed.

What is repeatable, and widely known, we designate as fact. What is subjective we leave to opinion. Unusual phenomenon is is viewed with widely varying opinion.

The thing is, that the unusual, the unproven, phenomenon, myths, create speculation, claimed by many to support abstract beliefs, philosophy, art, religion. Much of this has a long history, it captures the imagination, entertains. A great deal of the most popular tales are also the least credible. Some of these beliefs have a very profound impact on culture, justice, law and order, society. Often, at the very least these tales are cautionary tales that express ideas and concerns that for what ever reason can not be put in more concrete terms. Even a great deal of science includes concepts that are primarily straight out of imagination, unproven, many concepts, unwitnessed by anyone, simply conjectures based on speculation of phenomenon observed through scientific experimentation, and examination of artifacts.

When we ask about the truth, the complete truth, these phenomenon are considered by many. Some people dismiss phenomenon outright, others believe completely, and those in the middle choose to keep things open.

It is important because these things have very significant impact on moral considerations of what is right or wrong.

Is there such a thing as God, life after death? Is religion important? Is science important? Is there such a thing as morality, right or wrong? Does life have meaning?

Our personal philosophy, our individual perspective of the truth, is how each of us determines these things for ourselves.

reply to post by Buddha1098


Define consciousness, please?

reply to post by BohemianBrim


You don't have access to google/yahoo/bing? find out yourself lol.

The truth is the truth is smaller than a grain of sand and larger than the vastness of space, and everything in between

if you are a someone then i guess no someone knows the truth.

reply to post by Th0r


i wanted their own definition.

reply to post by BohemianBrim


In this context "Awareness."

When your mind is before your conscious awareness when you walk into a room, see an attractive female and instantly have a stream of thoughts. She's attractive. I wonder if she has a boyfriend. She's too good looking for me, I wish I wore something nicer. etc.


When your consciousness is before your mind, you notice the woman.

reply to post by Buddha1098


Or preferably somewhere inbetween.

Nothing wrong with noticing an attractive woman.

reply to post by poet1b


I didn't say noticing the attractive woman is wrong.

I'll try again... An attractive woman is in a room. That is (subjective) truth. The thoughts that accompany that observation are not truth only your thoughts. Meditating will quiet the mind so that your thoughts don't carry you away from the truth.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by poet1b

 

I didn't say noticing the attractive woman is wrong.

I'll try again... An attractive woman is in a room. That is (subjective) truth. The thoughts that accompany that observation are not truth only your thoughts. Meditating will quiet the mind so that your thoughts don't carry you away from the truth.

Amazing. So, by not thinking you can stick closer to the truth, and keep your thoughts from carrying you away from the truth? Some of you guys must be like stitched to your truth then. Certainly not a lot of thinking going on concerning this subject around here.

I can't even imagine what most lurkers think about the exchanges on this forum. Some of these threads almost seem like a parody of philosophical banter lately.

reply to post by Buddha1098


if ur mind is not from knowing objective life fact reality with u so it is not a true mind

so if ur mind dont recognize genders physical existence then sorry but it would be better if it stays back

try ur awareness it would b less humiliating for u as a subject or a person i mean

reply to post by NorEaster


Thinking isn't the issue.

It's following the usual mental chatter that goes on between the ears of your average Human.

I'll try again.

In my example there is a woman in the room. You find her attractive. That is Truth.

If you're lost in your thoughts you'll have all these thoughts that will occupy your mind. Some may lead you to think you should go up and talk to her, some will tell you shouldn't. But these thoughts have no basis in truth.

Contrasted to the second example. I see a woman. I find her attractive. Still truth. The rest is up to me. If I want to find out whether she finds me attractive, I ask her for a drink. No mental Chatter, no thoughts that carry me away from the truth.

I still use my mind to talk to her, I still get ideas, but I can quiet my mind and not listen to it's incessant ramblings too. And that skill comes through meditation

reply to post by absolutely


I'm sorry I can't understand what you are saying.

Is it the fact I said (subjective) truth? Truth is there is a woman in the room. The subjective part is whether she is attractive or not.

reply to post by Buddha1098


So we are talking about the truth here, and the example put forth is how to hit on a hot chick in an elevator?

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Ok, lets go with it, more interesting than many of the other philosophy threads I have been participating in.

Let's go for background first. You are in the market, so to speak, when you enter the elevator, and notice the attractive person. We could leave it neutral for all participants.

Truth:
You are in an elevator with an attractive person, probability your perspective is true, extremely high, depending on your taste in women, which really doesn't matter because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You want to hit on this attractive person, as the example has gone so far. Recognizing the truth means admitting you want to hit on her, emotional control should greatly improve your odds of actually making some kind of proper mood, the whole importance of passion and attitude thing. See my other thread if you would like. Now according to Buddha1098's interpretation, the best way to proceed is to calm your mind meditatively. The western concept would be, do what Fonzi would do, be cool. I think we could say this is true, the best thing to do, probability wise, but some people are able to pull off different approaches. Take the time to observe the subject of your desire, is there a ring, does the person seem to be in the wrong emotional state, do you have a legitimate shot?

Ah, but clearing one's mind isn't enough, you have to think of something to say to the object of your desire, in order to get at bat. Experience should tell you that first you have to make eye contact. Ideally, you make eye contact right away, and there is a spark. Whether or not you get a spark, you have to think of something appropriate to say. Even if they are staring at a spot on the wall, you can still pull it off, but your opening will have be much more clever.

The next big step will then be finding the courage to make your move. Meditation isn't going to help you here. A consequences be damned sense of mirth would be the best state of mind, IME. The rest is going with the flow, and again, I don't see meditation as being all that helpful, but I guess some people can pull it off.

In each of these steps, you have to do your best to ascertain the truth of the situation, but you will never know exactly what to do, all the factors that make up the truth. All you have is your own experiences combined with ongoing observations to clue in to the truthfulness of the moment.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Buddha1098

 

So we are talking about the truth here, and the example put forth is how to hit on a hot chick in an elevator?

You need to get yourself a girlfriend.

Ok, lets go with it, more interesting than many of the other philosophy threads I have been participating in.

Let's go for background first. You are in the market, so to speak, when you enter the elevator, and notice the attractive person. We could leave it neutral for all participants.

Truth:
You are in an elevator with an attractive person, probability your perspective is true, extremely high, depending on your taste in women, which really doesn't matter because beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

You want to hit on this attractive person, as the example has gone so far. Recognizing the truth means admitting you want to hit on her, emotional control should greatly improve your odds of actually making some kind of proper mood, the whole importance of passion and attitude thing. See my other thread if you would like. Now according to Buddha1098's interpretation, the best way to proceed is to calm your mind meditatively. The western concept would be, do what Fonzi would do, be cool. I think we could say this is true, the best thing to do, probability wise, but some people are able to pull off different approaches. Take the time to observe the subject of your desire, is there a ring, does the person seem to be in the wrong emotional state, do you have a legitimate shot?

Ah, but clearing one's mind isn't enough, you have to think of something to say to the object of your desire, in order to get at bat. Experience should tell you that first you have to make eye contact. Ideally, you make eye contact right away, and there is a spark. Whether or not you get a spark, you have to think of something appropriate to say. Even if they are staring at a spot on the wall, you can still pull it off, but your opening will have be much more clever.

The next big step will then be finding the courage to make your move. Meditation isn't going to help you here. A consequences be damned sense of mirth would be the best state of mind, IME. The rest is going with the flow, and again, I don't see meditation as being all that helpful, but I guess some people can pull it off.

In each of these steps, you have to do your best to ascertain the truth of the situation, but you will never know exactly what to do, all the factors that make up the truth. All you have is your own experiences combined with ongoing observations to clue in to the truthfulness of the moment.

I'm happily married. No girlfriend for me I can barely keep up with my wife! =)

I'm not saying meditation is the best response to every situation. I'm saying if you meditate on your own you will have more emotional control. You will be "cool" in this situation. You will also have more courage.

Do you meditate on a regular basis? If you do then your experiences with meditation haven't been as fruitful as mine have. I find I am actually calmer (I don't flinch if someone cuts me off, nor do I get upset) during the day even if my mind isn't clear when it happens. This certainly wasn't always the case. Buddhist monks in Tibet have the courage to set themselves on fire and remain in the lotus position while they burn. Anecdotal evidence in favor of meditation as a booster of courage at least?

And if you don't meditate (and don't take offence because you seem intelligent enough to know I don't mean this as an insult) then how can you comment on something's benefits or lack there of if you are ignorant?

reply to post by Buddha1098


Good for you, but you chose the example, I just went with it.

Yes, I meditate, studied buddhism as a kid. I already agreed, it can help one to keep their cool. I also don't see any reason to stay calm all the time, a little anger now and then helps relieve stress. It is good to be able to tap ones passions, as long as you don't let your emotions run away with you. That comes from learning how to deal with one's emotions, not from avoiding them or ignoring them, but from learning how to harness one's emotions.

I see no purpose, rhyme, or reason for setting oneself on fire. That is crazy. Courage is more than demonstrating ones ability to deal with pain.

To each his own, but I don't see meditation as the end all solution.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by absolutely

 

I'm sorry I can't understand what you are saying.

Is it the fact I said (subjective) truth? Truth is there is a woman in the room. The subjective part is whether she is attractive or not.

edit on 20-3-2012 by Buddha1098 because: (no reason given)

yea u didnt get my point let me try to say it in different terms

subjective is wrong, and that u seem to relatively mean too, then meditation is absolutely wrong since it is an activity that involve only the subject

now, what i meant is that when u recognize an attractive person from what it looks like it means clearly that u r never objective so u cant exist, and when a mind is only for existence abstraction then what u think being ur mind is simply ur evil life

reply to post by absolutely


Okay

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Thinking isn't the issue.

It's following the usual mental chatter that goes on between the ears of your average Human.

I'll try again.

In my example there is a woman in the room. You find her attractive. That is Truth.

If you're lost in your thoughts you'll have all these thoughts that will occupy your mind. Some may lead you to think you should go up and talk to her, some will tell you shouldn't. But these thoughts have no basis in truth.

Contrasted to the second example. I see a woman. I find her attractive. Still truth. The rest is up to me. If I want to find out whether she finds me attractive, I ask her for a drink. No mental Chatter, no thoughts that carry me away from the truth.

I still use my mind to talk to her, I still get ideas, but I can quiet my mind and not listen to it's incessant ramblings too. And that skill comes through meditation

I guess I always thought that the "should I or shouldn't I" chatter that they show in movie scenes was an exaggeration of what actually happens with people. I've never been much for that kind of senseless internal dialogue, so maybe it's a case of my not realizing what the mental chatter issue actually is all about. Maybe my mind is pretty quiet in comparison to other folks, and yet I never knew that.

me i know the truth. Notice I use the small m to denote me .As tOday being a Satarday I do not know the TRUTH .i ONLY KNOW THE TRUTH ABOUT LIFE THE UNIVESE EVERYTHING THAT CAN AN Will be on .Days wich strart with a T.foristance thursday tuesday or tommorow would be good day to ask me.Problem is when i awake on non T days I am just as clueless as ther rest of us .Writting the stuff down is pointless as well.Because whan i peruse it and try to understand it on not T days it just looks an sounds like compleate an utter balderdash sqribblings of a lunatic.So there you go I Know everything and nothing.Perfect equilibrium.pease be with you always .An always be glad when you feel bored .Boreden is natures way off telling us to be content an happy with what we have .. tHERE IS A REASON WHY THE MOST FEARED CURSE THAT CAN BE UTILISED AGAINST SOMONE LIVVING IN CHINA US .....May you live in interesting times.

reply to post by ecossiepossie


Please post only on "T" days from now on..
Thanks