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Originally posted by METACOMET
#1 Anarchism is not a form of socialism.
#2 Anarchism is not stateless socialism.
#3 Socialism is not simply an economic system, it certainly does require a government.
#4 government ownership is statism.
There are three basic major socialist ideologies: Socialism, Anarchism, and Communism. These are all regarded as forms of socialism.
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (pronounced [ˈpruːd ɒn] in BrE, [pʁu dɔ̃] in French) (15 January, 1809 – 19 January, 1865) was a French economist and socialist philosopher who was the first individual to call himself an "anarchist" and is considered among the first anarchist thinkers. Proudhon is most famous for his assertion of "Property is theft!", in his missive What is Property? Or, an Inquiry into the Principle of Right of Government with the original title: Qu'est-ce que la propriété? Recherche sur le principe du droit et du gouvernement, which was his first major work, published in 1840...
...In his earliest works, Proudhon analyzed the nature and problems of the capitalist economy. While deeply critical of capitalism, he also objected to contemporary socialists who idolized association. In series of commentaries, from What is Property? (1840) through the posthumously-published Théorie de la propriété (Theory of Property, 1863-64), he declared that "property is theft", "property is impossible", "property is despotism" and "property is freedom". The apparent contradiction is resolved when it is realized that, in "property is theft", he was using the word to mean the type of property which created exploitative conditions. Specifically, he was referring to the means of production which labourers did not own themselves, and the system of wage labour...
...On the other hand, in asserting that property is essential for liberty, he was referring not only to the product of an individual's labor, but to the peasant or artisans home and tools of his trade. For Proudhon, the only legitimate source of property is labor. What one produces is his property and anything beyond that is not. He can be considered a libertarian socialist, since he advocated worker self-management and argued against capitalist ownership of the means of production.
Originally posted by ANOK
Government ownership is not stateism. The state is a collection of institutions, including government, the military, the school system etc., that allows one class of people to rule over another. It comes along with capitalism. The state being all powerful is a part of fascism, a far right wing system.
Socialism, capitalism are economic systems, anarchism, Marxism, fascism are political systems.
edit on 3/17/2012 by ANOK because: It's a commie takeover Harry
Originally posted by teapot
All political systems, all forms of governance, all systemic constructs are fascist. Political systems and economic systems are not mutually exclusive! The one relies on the other for it's very existence! The other requires the veneer of moral authority, ie regulation, to obscure it's true nature.
I like the occupy movement, it is a first step toward egalitarian action by the individual that does not require leadership, organisation, control. I used to think that if only more people evolved to the point where there is no longer any perceived requirement for an overarching construct to organise the means of survival.
Along with other global movements, including the mass resignations and most inspiringly, the defections of the Free Syria Army, Occupy is encouraging. Occupy has and needs no leader because action is personal and to my mind, indicative of a growing awareness of systemic injustice and the willingness to take personal responsibility for bringing about positive change.