How Every American Seeking Work Can be Employed: Redistribution of Wealth from the 1%

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posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by mossme89
 



Granted, I realize the analogy might not be apparent at first, so let me explain. The NFL creates a situation where the environment is better for all. Any team can have a realistic shot to beat any other team on any Sunday. Whereas the MLB is a lot less competitive with an elite group of teams (Red Sox and Yankees being among that group.) We need to confront the issue of massive unemployment and wealth divide. As some say "the rich become richer and the poor become poorer." But it doesn't have to be this way. We can do something about it. Wealth redistribution is a good way to do it.


Your entire premise is false because the NFL and its franchises are CORPORATIONS within a free market economy; they get to decide (as employers) what their employees make.

Citizens of America are NOT EMPLOYEES of the GOVERNMENT. Those idiots work for us….we don’t work for them! We decide what THEY make and not the other way around.

A very wise man once said:

Though the people support the government; the government should not support the people. - Grover Cleveland



edit on 16-3-2012 by seabag because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 09:38 PM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Wow OutKast, we would probably disagree on many things, but brother, you are spot on with that reply. I wish I would have said it first.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 09:44 PM
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So in your opinion...what is "freedom"?

Is the only way to only be "free" is to choose not to work and still get paid?


Freedom from want is as important as fredom to do this or that.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by Leftist
Only because they have a lack of other viable choices. Yes, on paper they can "sit and starve." But real life doesn't work that way.

It is the same "freedom" as the "freedom" of the slave consents to slavery "freely" by his work. After all, he could always choose freely to be lashed and whipped instead, right?


Once again, getting beaten is not freedom. If you try to reference something again, please keep it in the realm of actual freedom.

An individual can choose not to work for a given wage. That is freedom. If everyone agrees that the job should be paid more, it remains unfilled until the position raises the offer to the point that someone agrees. A business needs its employees just as much as an employee needs a job.

One aspect of the problem of no jobs in the US, isn't actually the lack of jobs. It's the lack of any number of a certain type of jobs. If you have a college degree and lost your job in the collapse, do you go on unemployment while you look for a similar job or do you take anything that is available? Most people expect to wait for something they are either trained in or that is closer to what they made before. They aren't willing to readjust their life to a new lower rate or to do a job they either weren't trained in or they think they are overqualified for. The only reason employers have resisted hiring 'over-qualified' people in the past is because of attitude and a lack of humility. he current environment has humbled many and many employers would hirer someone with maturity and skill for the same wage as someone without.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 09:54 PM
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Originally posted by Leftist

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by Leftist
No boss is worth 700, 400, 300, 100, 50 or even 10 times as much as the lowest-paid worker.


This is a self-made problem. As long as investors think that the job being done by a CEO is worth that much AND as long as people are wiling to work for an agreed upon wage AND people are willing to buy the products and services of companies who do those things then no wrong is done.

Those are three levels of checks and balances in capitalism that allow for freedom, choice and responsibility.


Hey, with that logic, why not bring back slavery for the blacks? Or some other group? As long as investors think that the job being done by a CEO is worth that much AND as long as people are wiling to work for an agreed upon wage AND people are willing to buy the products and services of companies who do those things then no wrong is done, right?

Morality comes before profit, not vice-versa.

edit on 16-3-2012 by Leftist because: (no reason given)

You made an incredible leap there. Not sure why you feel the need to bring slavery into the equation, it's not really helping your argument. You say "Morality comes before profit, not vice-versa", so tell me who gets to determine what is moral.
edit on 3/16/2012 by DelMar because:



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:02 PM
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The Godless commie is correct that America's labor force suffers from a lack of choice. The answer certainly isn't communism, however. Nor, with all due respect, should it have to be "suck it up and deal" and put up with increasingly lower standards of living.

What should never have happened to the extent it has is so-called "globalism". Isolationism should not be a dirty word, America should pull itself inward, using law and incentives to carrot-and-stick its best comapanies into producing more at home and hiring Americans. Yes there will be some some sacrifice, no this is not possible with today's toxic greed-soaked corporate culture, yes it is less than pure market fundamentalism. So what? Its what works in the long run. A return to a domestic production/domestic consumption model builds a solid and enduring middle class and also supports traditional culture and traditional family structures, etc., which is something else I think needs to happen. Nationalism. Believe in it.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:03 PM
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reply to post by Leftist
 


I have to agree and remember that the members of this site are middle class whites, who don't realize what it's like to be young or poor in this time period. Yet the young are more liberal and outnumber the old; two songs come to mind here, " The Winds They are A'changin" by Bob Dylan, and " Five to One" by the Doors.
edit on 16-3-2012 by KwisatzHaderach because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
reply to post by Leftist
 


I have to agree and remember that the members of this site are middle class whites, who don't realize what it's like to be young or poor in this time period. Yet the young are more liberal and outnumber the old; two songs come to mind here, " The Winds They are A'changin" by Bob Dylan, and " Five to One" by the Doors.
edit on 16-3-2012 by KwisatzHaderach because: (no reason given)


Have to ask you, where's your data to support your claim? Seriously, that's a very broad brush your painting with there.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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reply to post by mossme89
 


The average person either isn't aware of how the top 1% are really screwing over the other 99% or because of our brains being compromised, dumbed down, distracted and doped up - we don't care enough to rebel.

We are compliant and willing to serve the elite few.

Until we put aside our petty differences, wake up, wise up and grow some gonads, the 1% will continue to make the rules the 99% of us will have to follow.

The choice is ours.

But I don't feel we have a whole lot of time left - and not enough of us are awake, aware and brave enough yet.

Good opening thread.

Starred and flagged.


BTW: I did a thread on the medical and retirement benefit package our Senators and Congress enjoy while the average American have little or no health insurance and each year more and more companies are stealing their employees meager pensions right out from under them.

The response by and large from the ATS community was so what, I don't care.

I also did a thread on what justifies Beyoncé being worth 350 million when people that do the real work, people that really help keep the planet running barely make enough to live on..............the reply was so what, oh she is worth it, etc.



There will be no redistribution of wealth in a fair and just manner until the majority of mind controled drones and worker bees WTFU.
edit on 16-3-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by mossme89
 


Sooo if you're rich.. we take your money and give it to poor people because well .. they have no money.

So me, being in the middle, I'm far, far, far from rich but I'm not "poor" either. Why should I continue to work? Why shouldn't I just chill on my couch playing my xbox smoking pot all day? I mean, I'd get paid either way? Work and have people take my money.. or play xbox and get money with no work?

I see no incentive to work. Certainly no incentive to make a business, create products, innovate.... people will just profit from my work while I make the same as them? F that.. I'll sit on my couch.


If the best reason you can think of to work and be productive is money, you are a loser.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:28 PM
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And thats why the 1%/Elite/Bankster want us DEAD, depopulated

so we don't reclaim our fair share.




posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by mossme89
 


The average person either isn't aware of how the top 1% are really screwing over the other 99% or because of our brains being compromised, dumbed down, distracted and doped up - we don't care enough to rebel.

We are compliant and willing to serve the elite few.

Until we put aside our petty differences, wake up, wise up and grow some gonads, the 1% will continue to make the rules the 99% of us will have to follow.

The choice is ours.

But I don't feel we have a whole lot of time left - and not enough of us are awake, aware and brave enough yet.

Good opening thread.

Starred and flagged.


BTW: I did a thread on the medical and retirement benefit package our Senators and Congress enjoy while the average American have little or no health insurance and each year more and more companies are stealing their employees meager pensions right out from under them.

The response by and large from the ATS community was so what, I don't care.

I also did a thread on what justifies Beyoncé being worth 350 million when people that do the real work, people that really help keep the planet running barely make enough to live on..............the reply was so what, oh she is worth it, etc.



There will be no redistribution of wealth in a fair and just manner until the majority of mind controled drones and worker bees WTFU.
edit on 16-3-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)


Exactly.

I love when you actually show people in spreadsheet form how almost everybody comes out ahead with a lot of wealth redistribution from the uber-rich and their Cold War anti-commie indoctrination and brain-washing STILL prevents them from helping their own families.

It becomes a circular-logic argument of "yeah...but helping people makes them lazy 'cuz the government told me so". Meanwhile...ALL of the high points in American history were marked by remarkably fair wealth distributions across the population.

Turns out...having a decent life actually fills people with a sense of pride and makes them work HARDER. Maybe the demotivating factor for the Soviets wasn't so much the sharing of the wealth...but rather the 50 million people killed by the government political reasons.

Seems like a buzzkill to me.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by DelMar
 


Obviously unless your under thirty you don't really know what it's like to be a member of the generation that grew up with the Internet. If you are middle class unless you have worked in a fast food restaurant, which are the only jobs left for the young and uneducated, you have no idea what a maximum of 15000 a year is like. Most middle class people make at least 30000 a year, cut your pay check in half and try to live on it, then get back to me.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 10:46 PM
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How do you redistribute something that isn't yours? Without radically changing the laws the founding fathers set up? You cannot.

What's yours is yours, lets say you get lucky, find a gem of an item and sell it on ebay for $10,000, the new radical law forces you to give half of that to the 'redistribution',

Build a business, it starts taking off, you earn $1,000,000, the new radical law forces you to give half of that to the 'redistribution',

In a utopian society where everyone loves each-other unquestionably this *could* work.

In the world today where everyone hates each-other it would be *impossible* for this to work without tearing the constitution to shreds and building a socialist-communist government. History has proven this cannot work.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by KwisatzHaderach
reply to post by DelMar
 


Obviously unless your under thirty you don't really know what it's like to be a member of the generation that grew up with the Internet. If you are middle class unless you have worked in a fast food restaurant, which are the only jobs left for the young and uneducated, you have no idea what a maximum of 15000 a year is like. Most middle class people make at least 30000 a year, cut your pay check in half and try to live on it, then get back to me.


So your previous statement was, "I have to agree and remember that the members of this site are middle class whites, who don't realize what it's like to be young or poor in this time period.", and I asked you where your data is to support that. Your answer is "you don't really know what it's like to be a member of the generation that grew up with the Internet.", throw me a bone man, I can't follow you.

Cut my paycheck in half? What exactly do you know about me? Your statements are nothing more than generalizations without any substance.
edit on 3/16/2012 by DelMar because: the /i stuff



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by Razimus
 


You don't pay a ceo 20,000,000 a year and a janitor or the guy that gets your breakfast McMuffin 7.50 an hour.

You don't have movie stars making tens of millions of dollars for acting in a movie - this is INSANE!

You don't have the people in your Senate and Congress that are suppose to be "working for you" (We the People)
with very cushy medical and retirement packages while most people now cannot afford life saving medicine.

I could go on and on but evidently you are going to shut me down each step of the way because you are either a banker or haven't done enough research as to the injustice of it all.

Ya know with all the money America has poured into bombs and the military war machine we could have, should have fed, clothe and sheltered every single person on this planet.

Service to self or service to others?

The later is our salvation, the former our demise.

Wage differential, particularly in America sucks big time.



Description of video;


Peter's Z-Day 2010 lecture on Social Pathology (2010-03-13).

forum.linguisticteam.org...


Another video on minimum wage.



After 16 years of faithful service and 16 exceeds expectations my job was outsourced to India a 1-1/2 ago.

If my husband (at 67) didn't have a good job, we would be homeless.

Don't care................doesn't affect you.

Well, guess again, if we don't stop the bankers and corporations from their greedy ways, 99% of us will end up at the poverty level.

I volunteer at a homeless shelter and it use to be only drug addicts, alcoholics and vets came in - now it's people who had one medical issue, one job outsourced or insourced..................and poof they went from middle class to poverty almost overnight.

Sad, most people don't care until it happens to them, they don't see it coming.............they don't see the greedy will not stop before it affects them as well.

Wake up - you are next.
edit on 16-3-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Seems to me someone in the school system stopped teaching economics...

First of all, those people who make the $1.6 Trillion... how do they do it? Typically they do it by working hard and taking advantage of opportunity. True, there are some who are taking advantage of the rest of us (try the pharmaceuticals and the banks), but the bulk do produce a product and sell it. Their money is coming from us, from every gallon of gas we buy or every bottle of pills we buy, or every loan we take out.

So is this the problem? That they make money from us? Then the solution is simple: stop giving them your money. Impossible, you say? Then why do you want to take from them their incentive to provide things you cannot live without?

Secondly, I never cease to be amazed at how easily some will hate the people who produce needed goods and services that are bought freely, but love those who produce nothing and take what they want by force. That is a pretty good description of the government, you know... they produce nothing, but they take money in the form of taxes by force. Now that's who we want to place our trust in!


Thirdly, what jobs will we create? Will it be engineers? What will they be designing? Maybe we could hire hire cooks... but where will they cook? Oh, well, we can hire builders to build them new restaurants to work in... but where do we build all these restaurants? Maybe we can hire more auto workers... but who will buy the cars they make?

The point is that jobs do not exist because we want them, but because we need them. If there is no need, there are no jobs. And that little bit of wisdom explains what is really needed in order to actually reduce unemployment: Stop killing the need!

Government, that exact same government that supposedly could just take half of the top earners' money and create jobs with no need, has been for the past few decades actually been paying companies in the form of grants and tax breaks to move to other countries. At the same time they tax companies at one of the highest rates in the world, further making it look pretty promising to operate outside the US. And while they are busy either raising taxes, dreaming up new taxes, or threatening to raise taxes, they are also passing regulations that not only make no sense, but cost businesses so much they can't make a profit.

One such regulation on new industry requires a company to spend a couple million dollars up front to get an "environmental impact study" done before they can build a new plant... with absolutely no guarantee they will even be able to build the plant after spending the money! Would you toss a couple thousand dollars down on a new car if there was a good chance you wouldn't get the car and couldn't get your money back regardless?

So is it any wonder that there are no jobs? That $15,000 dollar a year job actually costs the person hiring you more like $30,000-$40,000! Think OSHA requirements, FICA taxes (yes, employers pay those too), worker's compensation, unemployment, insurance, and accountants to handle calculating all of the above. Looked at that way, you are already being taxed an extra 50-60% without even realizing it! You are being taxed through feel-good programs administered by the government in the name of taking better care of you... and yet people seem to want more.

I'd be happy as a pig in slop right now to make less than minimum wage, just to get something in on a regular basis... but of course, that is illegal unless I happen to be an illegal alien undocumented worker.

Here's a crazy idea: controlled capitalism made us the largest economic superpower in the world, while socialistic programs have resulted in high unemployment, bankruptcy, massive foreclosures, rising prices, and more taxes. Let's try going back to controlled capitalism instead of digging the hole deeper.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by ofhumandescent
You don't pay a ceo 20,000,000 a year and a janitor or the guy that gets your breakfast McMuffin 7.50 an hour.


Because multiple advanced degrees, years of experience and sacrifice are not worth more than the ability to press a button or turn a spatula by what could essentially be a high school drop out with a criminal record.


You don't have movie stars making tens of millions of dollars for acting in a movie - this is INSANE!


As long as 1 billion people want to pay to see a movie star acting on screen, they earned it.


You don't have the people in your Senate and Congress that are suppose to be "working for you" (We the People)
with very cushy medical and retirement packages while most people now cannot afford life saving medicine.


Yet everyone keeps reelecting the same people or same flavor of people.

From some reason, people don't realize the power they have had, or have. If someone doesn't like a CEO getting paid so much, don't invest or buy their companies products. If someone doesn't like an actor getting paid millions, stop seeing their movies, buying their DVD's and other merchandise. If someone doesn't like politicians voting themselves comforts and treasure, elect new people who will do something about it or run yourself.

The thing is, clearly not enough people have issues with these things.

I have issues with them or similar things and try to live accordingly.
edit on 16-3-2012 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


You have not done enough research, in my opinion you are closed minded and proud of heart.

What little heart you have.

Wonder if you are a CEO?

I worked under one and he didn't do $hit - except manipulate people well.

The "Technical Assistants" knew more about what was going on in the company than he did.

And no, the person that gets your coffee and cleans your rest room isn't always a ex con.

You are derogatory and prejudice.

I saw our CEO give his airhead son a job he was not qualified for while a woman with multiple degrees was passed over for that same job.

A lot of it is "networking".

And if you think these actors are worth tens of millions of dollars you in my opinion have very warped values. They entertain us nothing more, they don't do real work.
edit on 16-3-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


Private companies need to be regulated.

I worked for a private company and the execs came and went as they pleased, with two hour lunches and went shopping, to the vets and spa with the company car.

My husband, while he has a good job that is partially federally funded must sign in and account for every single minute he is at work in front of his staff.

He must log in exactly how many miles and where he goes if he uses a company car - and the car MUST BE USED ONLY FOR visiting off site garages/offices (nothing that is not company related is allowed).

While he has a high management position he is held as accountable as the janitor.

Not so in private corporations, my boss screwed our company out of many hours and other "perks".

Companies need to be heavily regulated - as should banks.

You let the fox in the hen house and don't watch him, you will end up with a whole lotta dead chickens.
edit on 16-3-2012 by ofhumandescent because: (no reason given)





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