Israel Security Cabinet Votes 8 To 6 To Attack Iran

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

Originally posted by babybunnies
You Americans make the rest of the world laugh complaining about even $6 gas.

In Europe, many countries are already paying $12-$13 a gallon. In Canada, it's been over $6 for some time.

Yeah, but we got big cars and trucks and don't live anywhere close to where we work.
Oh, wait...I see your point.

Well because of your poor transportation planning the world should subsidize you right?

Oh wait... We have rural communities in Canada too.

Exactly! Australia and Canada are vast! So is South Africa. Guess what Americans? Fuel is much, much more expensive in these places, and no, they don't 'earn more'. They make do with less and are more efficient. Americans are the most wasteful and inefficient people on the planet. Just look at any of the energy consumption statistics out there - its obscene.

We are all going to hurt if oil rockets in price, but the undeniable truth is that Americans have refused to heed the warning signs and have set themselves up for the hardest, most almighty fall from power in history.

Originally posted by OliArtist
We are all going to hurt if oil rockets in price, but the undeniable truth is that Americans have refused to heed the warning signs and have set themselves up for the hardest, most almighty fall from power in history.

What's even more frustration for the U.S. people is that we have vast oil reserves that are not being utilized and yet we are importing obscene amounts from other countries -- many of which don't like us -- while raising our debt way past sustainable levels.

But enough about the price of oil.

Is Israel just sabre rattling, or is this more serious?

Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by babybunnies
You Americans make the rest of the world laugh complaining about even $6 gas.

In Europe, many countries are already paying $12-$13 a gallon. In Canada, it's been over $6 for some time.

Lets look at this another way.

Lets say you have a corn field in your community which allows you to buy corn at 3$ a basket. Lets say the people in the next town pay $4 but only have half a corn field. And finaly, the next town from that have no corn field but pay $5 a basket. Why wouldnt the people who have a full corn field want to pay more?

The US has many, many oilfields and sources for oil. When we have to pay big prices for something we have aplenty, then yes.. we might get a lil angry.

I think you are wrong here. If the United States has so much accessible oil why do they project military power all over the world to secure oil deposits in dangerous places? The United States has no 'accessible' oil in any quantity. Sure you have oil deposits, but when oil is more expensive to get out of the ground that it is worth then it may as well not exist.

Put it this way, if you put in more energy to get to the oil than you can get from the oil, then there is no point.

reply to post by AnonymousCitizen


I agree. We're turning this into an oil topic..

I think it's very serious. Israel isnt known for "bluffing". I'm thinking we may get involved in this now, by proxy.

8 to 6...was expecting 14 to 0.

I beleive all 14 know that Iran wants nukes and to destroy Israel.Those 6 against are just fearing of war NOW.
They either hope Iran will be stopped by US or that a war later will be the same, thinking Iran won't use nukes.

Well, at least now, everyone can stop thinking the war can be avoided.

It is going to happend, and it is going to happend soon.

Originally posted by babybunnies
You Americans make the rest of the world laugh complaining about even $6 gas.

In Europe, many countries are already paying $12-$13 a gallon. In Canada, it's been over $6 for some time.

WELL, that is YOUR problem for not RIOTING over those prices. If the population showed OUTRAGE in NUMBERS, you all wouldnt be in that position.

Grow a spine and stop whining about Americans having a concern about being screwed as you guys apparently are.

Grow a spine.

Originally posted by OliArtist
If the United States has so much accessible oil why do they project military power all over the world to secure oil deposits in dangerous places? The United States has no 'accessible' oil in any quantity. Sure you have oil deposits, but when oil is more expensive to get out of the ground that it is worth then it may as well not exist.

Put it this way, if you put in more energy to get to the oil than you can get from the oil, then there is no point.

It weird, huh? There's plenty of accessible oil, it's just that certain political factions in the U.S. won't let it be tapped. Publicly the reason is to protect the environment, spotted oils, and the habitats of various little rodents. Or perhaps it is to hold out until the U.S. is the last with large reserves? Who knows. It's frustrating.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

Originally posted by OliArtist
We are all going to hurt if oil rockets in price, but the undeniable truth is that Americans have refused to heed the warning signs and have set themselves up for the hardest, most almighty fall from power in history.

What's even more frustration for the U.S. people is that we have vast oil reserves that are not being utilized and yet we are importing obscene amounts from other countries -- many of which don't like us -- while raising our debt way past sustainable levels.

But enough about the price of oil.

Is Israel just sabre rattling, or is this more serious?

Israel will attack Iran. Look at it from their point of view; whether you agree with their policies or not, the Jews were nearly exterminated by their former neighbours within our grandparent's lifetime. They now live in a country, surrounded by enemies, that is smaller than many states. They know that it would only take a couple of relatively low-yield nuclear weapons to destroy their nation, and they know that those nukes don't even need to be delivered using high-tech missiles.

Its quite clearly just a matter of time. Each day that passes the closer we get to it. They have to keep up the sabre rattling to keep Iran (and anyone else who may try to stop them) guessing. Personally I wouldn't be surprised to wake up to World War 3 any day now.

Evidently everyone missed from the get go and I directly tranlated as did the OP the original article, which says,Cabinet has not yet convened to discuss a crucial issue
Political - Security Cabinet 14 ministers. According to ESTIMATES, at this stage TEND to support Netanyahu and Barak's approach eight ministers, and six against it (including the traditional opponents octet: Moshe Ya'alon, Dan Meridor, Benny Begin and Eli Yishai).
THIS IS NOT OFFICIAL YET, everyone is jumping the gun!

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Azadok

 

Could you give me the chapter and verse or whatever catalogging system they use for that book.
Exactly where is that said, you being the one who read the koran and all.
Thank you in advance.

Sorry I don't know these Koranic verses or the various Hadiths off my head but I did look it up for you .

TextHere is the full quote:"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Muslim). www.ummah.com... Read more: "The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me,come and kill him."( Would someone elaborate?) | Answerbag www.answerbag.com...

Originally posted by OliArtist

Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by babybunnies
You Americans make the rest of the world laugh complaining about even $6 gas.

In Europe, many countries are already paying $12-$13 a gallon. In Canada, it's been over $6 for some time.

Lets look at this another way.

Lets say you have a corn field in your community which allows you to buy corn at 3$ a basket. Lets say the people in the next town pay $4 but only have half a corn field. And finaly, the next town from that have no corn field but pay $5 a basket. Why wouldnt the people who have a full corn field want to pay more?

The US has many, many oilfields and sources for oil. When we have to pay big prices for something we have aplenty, then yes.. we might get a lil angry.

I think you are wrong here. If the United States has so much accessible oil why do they project military power all over the world to secure oil deposits in dangerous places? The United States has no 'accessible' oil in any quantity. Sure you have oil deposits, but when oil is more expensive to get out of the ground that it is worth then it may as well not exist.

Put it this way, if you put in more energy to get to the oil than you can get from the oil, then there is no point.

Being in the oilfield all of my life, for the most part.. I learned one thing.

When prices go up, oil companies can afford to go back to older wells and pump out more oil. As long as the companies make even a small amount of money off of the well, they will pump it. When it starts costing, when prices go back down, they will plug it and move to another well that produces more easily. One that is cost effective.

Yes, we do have a very huge amount of oil here. No, I'm not talking about just shale oil, which is getting easier to pull and cheeper to obtain.

It's only speculation that we steal it from other countries so we can horde our own. We dont waste more, we consume more because, unlike many other countries, we have more uses for it available to everyone, not just the rich. We power our homes with it, cook with it, drive with it, create with it... where as china and other countries only use it towards their rich. Their poor still use horse and buggy or their backs.

Prices are cheeper here because we get alot of it here, we drill in our own back yards, we pump it to and from here, we even refine it here.

Now... As it seems.. Many apparently dont understand that there is a diffrence between oil and gas. We have vehicles that use deasle, gas and other forms of energy. Oil is also used, but you dont change the oil but every 3-10k miles.

The reason our vehicles dont run on 1000mpgs is because of the big wigs at the top. How dare anyone say that it's "the americans". I consider those bastards that keep technology from us, communist.

If you think we "secure" oil from other countries, consider that we might be securing it for other countries as well. Not just the US. We secure it so there is no world shortage, not just so we can stock up on it ourselves.

If the whole world stopped selling us oil, do you honestly think that we wont have enough? Horse dookey!

Believe me.. When the price goes up, more oil is pulled from our wells. Why is that? Does that make sense to you any? It makes no sense to me unless someone is raising prices to where the part that is raised goes towards pulling more fuel from the ground. When prices go up.. The oilfield BOOMS here. When they go down, people get laid off. I dont have a forumula other than deep pockets. But.. Thats just how it is.



Btw, I wish to add.. Oil/Fuel used the oilfield here is TAX FREE.

Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by babybunnies

 

Dont yall have trains and buses and all that?

Pretty sure buses and trains and all that also use fuel of some sort.

Back to the OP though. Anyone think it'll be soon then?

When the Enterprise arrives maybe?

The more I read on this the more I look on yesterday, when I was merely terrified, as the good old days.

reply to post by Azadok


Yeah, see, the problem I have with that is it is someone elses interpretation.
I want to drink milk from the udder ya know?
I would not go quoting something without knowing the where, when, who, and all otherwise someone learned just might call your bluff.
But if you did find those chapters and verses or whatever, I'd gladly check it out.
I am not saying you are wrong, I just caution against 3rd party knowledge is all.
Thanks again.

reply to post by babybunnies


Yeah in most places in Europe and Canada minimum wage is higher than in the US so it evens out....

Nothing to laugh at.

Originally posted by Azadok

Originally posted by babybunnies
You Americans make the rest of the world laugh complaining about even $6 gas.

In Europe, many countries are already paying $12-$13 a gallon. In Canada, it's been over $6 for some time.

It's all realitive , you probably make more on average per hourly wage , I am fairly sure they have the fleecing of the people's down pat.

Not really. Most things are more expensive in europe and wages aren't necessarily better.

Money goes much further in the USA if you have it to spend.

In the USA if your up, your further up and if your down your further down. European policy pulls more towards a middle. Although we are catching the USA up in terms of wealth disparity all the time.

Originally posted by OliArtist

Originally posted by boncho

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen

Originally posted by babybunnies
You Americans make the rest of the world laugh complaining about even $6 gas.

In Europe, many countries are already paying $12-$13 a gallon. In Canada, it's been over $6 for some time.

Yeah, but we got big cars and trucks and don't live anywhere close to where we work.
Oh, wait...I see your point.

Well because of your poor transportation planning the world should subsidize you right?

Oh wait... We have rural communities in Canada too.

Exactly! Australia and Canada are vast! So is South Africa. Guess what Americans? Fuel is much, much more expensive in these places, and no, they don't 'earn more'. They make do with less and are more efficient. Americans are the most wasteful and inefficient people on the planet. Just look at any of the energy consumption statistics out there - its obscene.

We are all going to hurt if oil rockets in price, but the undeniable truth is that Americans have refused to heed the warning signs and have set themselves up for the hardest, most almighty fall from power in history.

The major problem is the micromangement on a local level over here. In the local ordinances it makes it almost impossible to save a penny because of the strict regulations, building codes etc. So it really isn't as easy as your statement. When comparing to places where building codes are pretty lax. I can't just climb on my roof and install a solar setup or make an efficient solar heater for my house without the great American paper chase.

In other news, China, Russia, Turkey, and not to mention half of the Middle Eastern states, including Egypt, Libya, and lets not forget North Korea, will unite and stand by Iran because well, they all have their reasons.

Welcome to WW3 everyone.

Wouldn't it be ironic that WW3 gets started by the Jews, while WW2 was perpetrated against them? I'd call that a comeback.

Dude,you scared me there for a moment.
It is wrong translation. What it says at the top:
"Estimate: majority of cabinet for the attack in ran.
8 ministers tend to support Netanyahoo and Barak's position for the strike on Iran,against 6 who oppose. Cabinet members spoke about Netanyahoo's speech in the Knesset - it sounds like preparation speech for the attack.
High ranked official: Prime minister will not wait for US elections in November."

So there was no vote, it is only an estimation on positions in the cabinet though usually those leaked things are pretty accurate.
Further down the text:

"It needs to be noted that the cabinet is yet to assemble for the final discussion on the subject and the estimation is based on secret contacts between prime minister and each of the ministers separately.
Netanyahoo's speech worried those who oppose the attack among the politicians and security forces".
So it is pretty troubling, but it might be part of pressure bluff. I hope.

Originally posted by nusnus
In other news, China, Russia, Turkey, and not to mention half of the Middle Eastern states, including Egypt, Libya, and lets not forget North Korea, will unite and stand by Iran because well, they all have their reasons.

Welcome to WW3 everyone.

Wouldn't it be ironic that WW3 gets started by the Jews, while WW2 was perpetrated against them? I'd call that a comeback.

edit on 16-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)

Alternatively...

The Saudis will be ecstatic to see their Shia rival getting a pasting, in private.

The Russians won't get involved, nor will the Chinese. Its not in their interest.

Egypt is still controlled by the Army in reality so they'll sit it out. Maybe some more unrest.

Libya is still in pieces.

Assad has his hands full.

North Korea is happy as long as its getting food aid so they won't rock the boat beyond rhetoric.

The real problem is the shock to an already flatlined world economy through soaring oil prices.

Originally posted by vaelamin
reply to post by babybunnies

 

Dont yall have trains and buses and all that?

I rely on public transit in the states, but I have almost gotten kicked out of college for being late too many times these past 2 semesters. Buses suck, and most are 30 minutes apart. It might help you understand better, that the US is big and spread out. My girlfriend has to student teach in some random town an hour away. She pays about $50 every 3 days for gas.

the state I live in is bigger than a lot of countries. Shipping food and whatever else cross country is what is going to affect me. I can hardly afford food as it is.

I imagine, that if you don't live in a college town or Large city there would be no public transportation at all. But I don't know that.