Pulling the PTSD card

reply to post by SLAYER69

What a bunch of narrowly defined crap.

^ Are you serious narrowly defined? I think it was broadly defined. Stop letting your emotions take over your reasoning...Seriously just stop feeling bad for people that make mistakes especially those in uniform. Start looking outside the theater of operations where PTSD is just as bad.

By your logic,PTSD is more prevalent in combat zones and other theaters of operations.

No, is it widespread just not in one particular area.

serious auto accidents at the Indy 500 are inconsequential

I was looking for a better reason of why someone would be traumatic and start going on a killing spree. I don't think watching cars crash would make someone else kill others. I was thinking more in the lines, as if someone was to come home, and catch their wife in bed with another guy, snapping to the point where he kills both the wife and the guy she was screwing...

Unfortunately, in the US justice system, it is all too easy for a lawyer to claim "temporary insanity".

This guy's lawyer has already been on TV this morning saying that "we need to investigate the defendant's state of mine at the time of the shooting".

In order to foster good will towards Afghanistan, this guy should have been handed over to Afghan authorities instead of whisked off to the most secure facility in the United States.

Now the Afghans will likely NEVER get to question him.

reply to post by babybunnies


I wouldn't hand over anyone to the Afghan "court" system. Ever. Next week you'd cry that someone handed him over and he was inhumanely treated. Because, we all know that the Afghan jail system ranks somewhere around the same standards as Norway, right?

Lawyer is being a lawyer. That's his job. Are you suggesting that one's mindset isn't relevant to killing 16 people?

reply to post by Aeons

One wonders what he would have done if he'd been at home and seen a bad car accident?

That is just one of many instances that do occur on a daily basis where someone can be diagnosed with PTSD. The Dana point accident where 3 Marines lost their lives is a prime example, where the driver being the 4th body was the sole survivor of that accident while his other 3 buddies died. So now he has to live with that on his chest for the rest of his life.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Your entire knowledge of PTSD is Rambo movies I see? PTSD is not a "snap" mental disorder. PTSD is how you think feel, and live, with every breath. PTSD is kinda like how you felt learning to swim. You were scared at first until you got used to it. Seeing death and killing changes you and everything you ever felt, in the same way you no longer feel fear of swiming. Except now you have a scewed world view and sickness of mind. Sure PTSD can cause someone to plan out an attack. Different people have different tolerances and can react differently to the same situation. It is the governments job to make sure people are mentaly health before sending them into combat and giving them weapons. The commander n chief is where the buck stops.

Our government is responcible for turning normal people into monsters. Had this person not been deployed to war zones he would likely have never harmed a soul his entire life. I don't see why we are even over there helping people who A. dont want help. B. Glad to take the cash handouts. C. Will drag our dead troops burned corpses through the streets when they are not getting the cash hand outs.

Originally posted by KonquestAbySS
reply to post by Aeons

 

One wonders what he would have done if he'd been at home and seen a bad car accident?

That is just one of many instances that do occur on a daily basis where someone can be diagnosed with PTSD. The Dana point accident where 3 Marines lost their lives is a prime example, where the driver being the 4th body was the sole survivor of that accident while his other 3 buddies died. So now he has to live with that on his chest for the rest of his life.

Okay, now....

So what happens if I put you on the median of a high speed car crash intersection? That's where you go every day. Some days you just watch people doing goofy things in their cars. Some days people just about run you over. Other days you get to watch grizzly accidents.

Then you get to get into your car, and drive into the high speed car crash intersection every day.

Are you really suggesting that wouldn't have an effect on someone?

Put him on trial. He committed a crime. It may have mitigating circumstances - but there is only so much mitigating voodoo that can be applied to make killing 16 sleepy people.

reply to post by Xeven


A psychotic break teamed with PTSD could certainly have this effect.



www.huffingtonpost.com...

details:

He is married with two small children. He lost part of one foot because of injuries suffered in Iraq during one of his three tours of duty there.

He suffered a concussion in a vehicle accident caused by an improvised explosive device, and sustained a battle-related injury requiring surgery that removed part of one foot.

Oh, so he lost part of himself in an IED incident. and then,

He also said that a day before the rampage, the soldier saw a comrade's leg blown off.

That's doesn't sound like a trigger for psychotic break on someone with PTSD at all.


The "how did a driver do that?" question answered.

The soldier, who received sniper training

reply to post by Aeons


I think there is a difference from witnessing, and actually being involved. Ok, so lets say people were walking around during that accident, I don't think it would affect them as much if they were watching from a far then opposed to someone being hit by debris from the accident...It is possible that someone was close enough to see death and blood from this accident. Especially if they ran up to the car where they discovered a gruesome scene.

Put him on trial. He committed a crime.

No I totally agree, he should be charged. However; I blame the people in charge for failing to investigate certain individuals that may have PTSD prior to joining the armed forces. People who can no longer think reasonably should not be carrying weapons or deploying overseas. If emotions are over coming reason they should be kicked out...

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

So we should just kill him?

The Ft. Hood shooter gets a trial, a jury, a lawyer.

You (and Panetta, Obama) just want to string him up.

Go get 'em, tiger!

I wouldn't worry too much. Most of the comments I've read from the professional are anti-American. I can't tell if its anti American government or if he is misguided to think that all Americans are evil.

Originally posted by calnorak


I wouldn't worry too much. Most of the comments I've read from the professional are anti-American. I can't tell if its anti American government or if he is misguided to think that all Americans are evil.

It's not just the OP. Just read some of these posts.
Then go and search the Ft. Hood shooter threads.

There were so many bleeding hearts there that I needed paper towels just to see my monitor!

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by calnorak


I wouldn't worry too much. Most of the comments I've read from the professional are anti-American. I can't tell if its anti American government or if he is misguided to think that all Americans are evil.

It's not just the OP. Just read some of these posts.
Then go and search the Ft. Hood shooter threads.

There were so many bleeding hearts there that I needed paper towels just to see my monitor!

how convenient that this guy did this at just the time Obama needed an out from Afghanistan?

reply to post by Xtrozero


I do want to point out that a certain Walt Disney put his dishonorable discharge on his wall in his office.

Although, 99.999% of people that get dishonorable discharge can't get up on their feet.

Originally posted by rebellender


how convenient that this guy did this at just the time Obama needed an out from Afghanistan?

edit on 16-3-2012 by rebellender because: (no reason given)

I agree. But to use this as an "out" just shows how weak his war-time strategy really is!

Obama sounds like the guy who quits playing ball if he gets a boo-boo on his widdle finger!

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


THE_PROFESSIONAL,

It's probably no secret I like a lot of your posts and many of your threads. But here you and I disagree. I believe this person's cognitive reasoning skills and mental faculties had indeed been compromised, and perhaps his already unstable mindset was enhanced further due to marital or relationship problems.

I admit I may be wrong, but I do not believe a sane person capable of such things.


From 98 to 09 I was a Rescue Firefighter/EMT in the USAF. During 7 deployments total I spent 44 months in warzones. My opinion is one based in experience, knowing a little about ptsd myself.

edited to add:
Does this individual deserve the death penalty? This person is already partially dead, me thinks. Deeds such as his require a real disconnect and a real deficiency *in empathy. There is also no way this guy "just snapped". There had to be signs. There had to be indicators of being unstable. But then again, maybe .... just maybe ... people are not paying enough attention to the people around them, maybe.

He needs to be fully checked over & diagnosed for PTSD. If he does have it then he doesn't deserve a death sentence. What he's done is terrible but he still deserves a punishment, even if any jail time will more than likely make it much worse.

I've lived with a family member with PTSD, and it completely changed them. Years of having to see & deal with things worse than what soldiers have to cope with took it's toll. The way they react to things, what sets them off.. Small things that wouldn't bother them before would set of a spark and they'd enter a fit of rage.

I won't go into it anymore, but it's the kind of thing you don't understand until you've experienced it yourself.

PTSD is very real.

I suffer from it as a direct result of walking in on on the results of suicides.

My father suffers from PTSD as a direct result of combat in WWII, Korea, and Vietnam.

This doesn't excuse the actions. But it goes a long way towards explaining it.

Combat. Or any other traumatic episodes leave a scar. Those scars come back to haunt you... Usually more than once. I know this only too well.

Does that excuse, or mitigate the actions of this soldier? Not in the least. Does it point an accusing finger at the people who are supposedly responsible for his behaviour? Yes, it does. They should hang right along side of him.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL

I hope this guy gets death

Nice....


Just wrong to think his condition,doesnt warrant help..

Originally posted by TrueInstinct
He needs to be fully checked over & diagnosed for PTSD.

But, by who ???

Doctors take an oath: "To do NO HARM" ... and this person's LIFE would depend on that diagnosis!!!

Doesn't anyone see the conflict of interest???

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Oh give me a break. He is not a kid anymore, he chose to spend time in the desert. He did not 'snap' he was pissed that he had no purpose and wanted to take out his anger on innocents.

Cause you were there?

Quit giving us your "clinical" evaluation of this man. Seriously,your personal "medical" "professional" evaluation of this man,doesn't warrant squat.

Why dont you do some good,and post FACTS. Deny ignorance.

PTSD can occur at any age. It can follow a natural disaster such as a flood or fire, or events such as:

Assault

Domestic abuse

Prison stay

Rape

Terrorism

War

Post-traumatic stress disorder


My advice? Do some damn homework on the subject,before squawking off at the gums......

I was looking for a better reason of why someone would be traumatic and start going on a killing spree. I don't think watching cars crash would make someone else kill others. I was thinking more in the lines, as if someone was to come home, and catch their wife in bed with another guy, snapping to the point where he kills both the wife and the guy she was screwing...

reply to post by KonquestAbySS

That is already part and parcel of the civilian legal system. Link It is "temporary insanity", PTSD is not temporary. Here is a little about link II