Israel ultimatum: Stop the missiles

reply to post by Ben81

TextThe useless rocket confuse me .. is it really the hamas launching the rockets ?? that always land 99% of the time on empty fields with no damage at all to anyone and anythings

I know is it. Ot awesome to watch Gods word fulfilled , that he would be their protector . They fire all these missles and usually hit squat they attack from all sides on several occasions and get defeated . You think the Islamists would read that part of the bible and realize God was not kidding but I guess He hardened their hearts like He did to Pharow.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


Oh, COME ON!!!!

That is ridiculous.. You couldn't have given that land away before the Israeli's turned into a flourishing land.

They were scattered about like dirt squirrels, with out a state. Now that Israel has become what it has, they want statehood... Its laughable at best!

Originally posted by ScarletWitch
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Oh, COME ON!!!!

That is ridiculous.. You couldn't have given that land away before the Israeli's turned into a flourishing land.

They were scattered about like dirt squirrels, with out a state. Now that Israel has become what it has, they want statehood... Its laughable at best!

Actually they live a nomadic life style like most of the peoples in that area. Even the Jews were a nomadic people. The only reason they want statehood is for the same reasons the Israelis do. They don't want to be victimized as a people and the best way to do that is to have the world community accept you and your nation.

Calling them dirt squirrels just shows your level of sentiment and maturity. They are an ancient people who are originated in the cradle of civilization.

Although their plights might seem laughable to you, most adults take issue with the whole sale abuse of our fellow man. This is life and death for some. Not COD or Arsenio Hall.

That land was always theirs. If Israel wants it so bad they should incorporate them into their country or become part of theirs.

It's like arguing that before European colonialists showed up in the Americas the native people didn't want to live in peace on their land. That they only wanted their beautiful ancestral land because we built parking lots and McDonalds.

oh, and Israel is no more special. Dirty and small. They get Billions in defense monies from the US and what do they spend it on? Not defense since you have mandatory service and gifted hardware for the most part. They STEAL it and don't even give it to their citizens or world Jews in the form of education or Medicare or hell even a yearly check for the trouble they put Jews through.

you amaze me. In an infantile way.

Originally posted by Crakeur
you can't say Israel is the aggressor.

Um, yes you can. If I come and take your land and then make you live in a constant state of humanitarian crisis under the ever-present threat of invasion and murder, how is any retaliation therefore to be considered an act of agression? Maybe if loosely interpreted in some ethnocentric talmudic dogma, otherwise according to the non-chosen folks in the world, Israel took from these people, paid nothing to have it, and treated the indegenous people like so much cattle, worse than cattle. In that situation, I would lob rockets too. Why not simply get their chosen arses back across the borders they agreed to and stop shooting little kids and kicking old women around at border crossings, seems to me the first step to peace would be burning talmuds, replanting olive groves, and apologising.

Originally posted by BIHOTZ

Originally posted by ScarletWitch
reply to post by sk0rpi0n

 

Oh, COME ON!!!!

That is ridiculous.. You couldn't have given that land away before the Israeli's turned into a flourishing land.

They were scattered about like dirt squirrels, with out a state. Now that Israel has become what it has, they want statehood... Its laughable at best!

Actually they live a nomadic life style like most of the peoples in that area. Even the Jews were a nomadic people. The only reason they want statehood for the same reasons the Israelis do. They don't want to be victimized as a people and the best way to do that is to have the world community accept you and your nation.

Calling them dirt squirrels just shows your level of sentiment and maturity. They are an ancient people who are originated in the cradle of civilization.

Although their plights might seem laughable to you, most adults take issue with the whole sale abuse of our fellow man. This is life and death for some. Not COD or Arsenio Hall.

That land was always theirs. If Israel wants it so bad they should incorporate them into their country or become part of theirs.

It's like arguing that before European colonialists showed up in the Americas the native people didn't want to live in peace on their land. That they only wanted their beautiful ancestral land because we built parking lots and McDonalds.

oh, and Israel is no more special. Dirty and small. They get Billions in defense monies from the US and what do they spend it on? Not defense since you have mandatory service and gifted hardware for the most part. They STEAL it and don't even give it to their citizens or world Jews in the form of education or Medicare or hell even a yearly check for the trouble they put Jews through.

you amaze me. In an infantile way.

edit on 16-3-2012 by BIHOTZ because: (no reason given)

I'm amazed by people who assume the arab palestinian's predate the Jews.
The Jews (or at the very least 1 - 3 tribes) lived there for millenia until Islam stuck it's oar in and populated it with arab-folks.

en.wikipedia.org...

After that battle is when the current inhabitants of Palestine came along (for the most part).
Read your history books folks, not the swirly media bs.

reply to post by BIHOTZ



We will never see eye to eye! I think Israel is right, yet you think they are wrong..

I think the Palestinians are acting like a barbaric tribe, that deserves little respect.

Lets be honest.. Neither Israel or Palestine are going to back down on this. Neither are going to move..

This is going to end, when Palestine takes advantage of a war between someone else and Israel. Israel is going to occupy and consume Palestine. It is just a matter of time.

You called me out, on calling them "Dirt Squirrels" .. I do apologize for that, it wasn't nice. I read it once and giggled, so I used it in turn.

I have ZERO respect for these guys firing rockets. They know the Israeli response will be swift and strong, yet they launch them within close range of schools and sleeping children. That, to me, is deplorable!!!

They can not call themselves men, hiding within women and CHILDREN!!!

I did not see what your solution was for this situation... Lay it out I can have a go at it.. You know where I stand, now detail your solution.

Here's a little bit about my perspective: I'm an American that lived in Israel from early 2008 to the middle of 2009 for a temporary work assignment. This January I returned for what was supposed to be a 30 day project. An opportunity arose to transfer to the Israeli branch of my company and I decided to take it and I will be here for a while. So I have a fair amount of recent experience with the situation in Israel beyond what most people get from the nightly news report (And it is far from the whole story).

Regarding the idea that the rockets from Gaza are not real, the first time I lived in Israel, I saw the results of these rockets first hand mere minutes after they landed. The first time I heard the air raid siren I was in my apartment on the 13th floor, my wife and I went into the safe room and shut the door - about 30 seconds later we heard and felt the explosion which we later found out was a couple of miles away... At the peak in late 2008, there were over 100 rockets a day coming into Israel. It's one thing to know that there are rockets landing in Israel, but when you have seen, heard, and felt the effects first hand it really changes your perspective... I found myself assessing where I was in relation to Gaza at all times so I knew which direction I needed to take cover from if the air raid sirens went off...

Fast forward to earlier this week - we were driving back to the apartment in Ashkelon one night (Less than 10 miles from Gaza) and thought I saw a light in the sky. Could it be a rocket? I wasn't sure as there were trees in the way and I was at freeway speed. Then about 20 seconds later I saw something again - definitely a rocket this time. I pulled over on the side of the freeway and watched it, trying to judge if it might land anywhere near me - not that there was any good cover to seek on the side of the road... It was all very surreal - I swear it was coming straight for us even though it probably wasn't. It was one of those moments like in the movies where everything is in slow motion... I can't really say how long I watched the rocket, but eventually another light went up from the ground and intercepted the rocket and there was an explosion and flash of light - Iron Dome in action...

As some others have posted, the Palestinians are treated like 2nd class citizens in the Arab world. Nobody wants them in their country, they make a lot of noise about the situation, but never lift a finger to help. People often seem to forget that Egypt shares a border with Gaza... If they felt so bad for them, why not allow them in your country? Even the Palestinians that do make it to one of the surrounding Arab countries are still treated badly and not fully accepted.

Not too long ago, the border to Gaza used to be much more open and Palestinians could come into Israel for work and make a pretty decent wage. After a bunch of suicide bombers blew up night clubs, buses, and more, Israel closed up the borders tight - and who would blame them?

The Israeli people are not the war mongers that many make them out to be, they just want to live their lives without rockets landing all around them. On the other side of things I don't think the Palestinian people are particularly the problem either, it is Hamas and the ones in power. They came to power by throwing their political opponents off of rooftops and shooting them in the knees - sometimes both. People like to say they were democratically elected by the people. It's easy to get elected when you have no opposition and everyone is afraid of you...

The idea that the people of Israel hate Christians is just ridiculous. As an American Christian I have been welcomed into many Israeli homes. I work with an Israeli Arab Christian and he is a valued, senior member of our team. I'm sure there may be some that might have that hatred, but they would be a very tiny minority. I have found the Israeli people to be very warm and inviting.

I'm sure there is more I want to share, but it is 1am here and I'm getting a bit tired... If anyone has any questions about Israel from my perspective, feel free to ask...

reply to post by Crakeur


Yes you can say Israel is the aggressor. They are the ones that are illegally occupying the land. I would be willing to bet that the rockets are landing on Palestinian land. So if the Israelis don't like it they can always pack up and move back to the land they were given.

Originally posted by Crakeur
you can't say Israel is the aggressor. They are more powerful and they show as much restraint as they can...

I believe that's the first Star I've ever given Crakeur. The entire reply was well-written and reasoned, brother.

The OP's points are well taken too--especially in regards to the artiste formerly known as the U.S.:

Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it. ~ Edmund Burke

Maybe, these days, a paraphrase would work better; "Those that don't understand history are destined to repeat it."

reply to post by milkyway12

Oh my goodness, what will poor wittle ol' Izrael do against those terrible firecrackers...

Originally posted by Domo1
reply to post by Ben81

 

So because Israel is better at killing people they shouldn't be allowed to ask Hamas to stop shooting rockets at their civilians?

Seeing how the IDF does nothing to stop the settlers from killing Muslims and Christians and burning mosques then you have to expect retaliation.

So no you don't have the right to complain.

Source information: en.wikipedia.org...

I find it more than interesting that many biblical academics and scholars seem to have determined from many different ancient writings that the ‘term’ Canaanites has several meanings, e.g. ‘inhabitants of the lower regions’ and also a general synonym meaning ‘merchant’ and ‘inhabitants of Canaan' but to mention a few.

However and most importantly to my point, I find many biblical scholars, both Jewish and Christian alike report a significant possibility exists that the Israelites themselves were in fact ‘Canaanites’.

Given this, then it would be fair to assume that the Israelites fought not another people, but amongst themselves. This supposition would certainly be supported by the stereotypical in fighting of area groups and or tribes which are clearly recorded in enumerable writings including religious text.

It also sounds reasonable that if the Israelites did in fact fight amongst themselves as I have suggested, they fought amongst themselves for the land now known as Israel.

Given this information, then it would be a fair assumption that the Israelis occupied this land originally, although being referred to as the Canaanites and did not steal the land from another group or tribe.

Given my assumption based on supportive documentation, then Irans paid assasians Hamas, in conjunction with some Palestinians are the agressors and attacking the Israelis on their own land.

this is such a crack of bull#, Israel has blockaded Gaza for years and deprived the lives of 1.5 million people and bulldozed thousands of civilians homes

It's not their land for #s sake how hard is it for people to get it through their heads?
And you can't pull out the ANCIENT history (7 B.C.E. ??)card to justify the evacuation of millions of people out of their homes
if that's the case then Native Americans have the right to bear arms against the American government RIGHT now
if thats the case the British can justify invasion of the USA because they were there first, does that make ANY sense??

The fact that Israel retaliates with their kind of aggression demonstrates it is NOT for defence purposes, it is cold blooded murder
Ask yourself who uses white phosphorus/depleted uranium for defence?
Who bulldozes civilian homes and parks for defence?

Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?
Is this defence?

The rejection of the Palestinian statehood is the final cut for me, if Israel really wanted to work towards a 2 state solution they would have accepted the statehood bid

Someone who uses lies, manipulation, deceit, and chemical weapons is CERTAINLY not doing so under the pre-text of DEFENSE, THAT IS A LIE

YOU CALL THIS DEFENSE? THIS IS INVASION!!!



If America gave a # about having a home for the Jews, they wouldn't support having them in the ONE place in the world where they would be threatened and undesired the MOST

THIS IS ALL BECAUSE OF RELIGIOUS BULL# BECAUSE THEY THINK GOD GAVE THEM THAT LAND, AND PEOPLE DEFEND THIS ? PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE OF THIS

Why are Americans so convinced that Israel would never use a nuke against America. All we read here is why Iran cannot have nuclear capabilities and how crazy they are, but no one thinks twice about Israeli nukes.

If Mossad was willing to drop buildings in NYC what next, a dirty bomb, a nuke?

This blind allegiance to this country needs to be reconsidered.

@Seenavy Those maps changed as wars were fought there. Is there to be no cost to attacking someone? No price paid for the assault? SUre israel is rough on them,but they have supported almost everyone who attacked israel and therefore share in the punishment. If they would have stood with the israelis instead i bet the situation would be different. Apparently though they always pick the losing side. I wish they could share the country together but with Hamas,and hezbollah interrupting i do not see it.

reply to post by milkyway12


Well, there is a saying,,,"Kill them all and let God sort it out."

Can't say I am a advocate of that philosophy, but I'm getting close.

Originally posted by yuppa
@Seenavy Those maps changed as wars were fought there. Is there to be no cost to attacking someone? No price paid for the assault? SUre israel is rough on them,but they have supported almost everyone who attacked israel and therefore share in the punishment. If they would have stood with the israelis instead i bet the situation would be different. Apparently though they always pick the losing side. I wish they could share the country together but with Hamas,and hezbollah interrupting i do not see it.

They tried, Israel denied it

President Obama publicly confirmed Monday that the United States will oppose any attempt by the Palestinians to achieve statehood at the United Nations, but Palestinians leaders are still vowing to move ahead with their bid for statehood this week.

"If the Palestinians do bring the issue to the Security Council and the U.S. vetoes it, it will be just another indication of the real unwillingness to permit a settlement of this issue, in terms of what has been for a long time an overwhelming international consensus," Chomsky says

www.democracynow.org...

They clearly demonstrated they don't want to live by the Palistinians

The part I don't understand is how people are surprised when the Zionists face resistance in the terrority. Why does it have to be there? WHY? There were already millions of people living in there!
If Britain and the US cared so much about a home for the Jews, WHY
WHY
WHY

DID THEY PICK THE SINGLE PLACE ON THE PLANET WHERE THEY WOULD BE THREATENED AND UNDESIRED THE MOST?

This is where it boils down to the BULL# you Zionist scum spew,
IT IS RELIGION
The root cause of Zionism is a fanaticism with the belief that GOD gave you that land.
your god has much blood on its hands, and is infact no god at all, but a harbinger of death and destruction

reply to post by WatchRider


many people lived there seeing as they were all nomadic for the most part with the exception of the Sumerian, Babylonian, and later Egyptian empires.

The rest of the peoples including the Jews were all nomadic in that area. It amazes me you would have forgotten to mention that since history is your thing.

The Palestinian people were there just as long as the Jews. Did you not know that or something?

reply to post by ScarletWitch


My solution would be a three state solution
Israel would keep Jerusalem in trust as a world heritage site as well as a spiritual center. The immediate grounds including mount Zion would remain under Jewish control. The military would be a mixed Israeli and Palestinian force. The national borders would be open to all Israeli and Palestinian people. A new government would be formed representing all people. The official faith of the nation would not be specified.

So, My solution would be a three state solution kind of. Two states forming a unified single state. Like state and federal governments. The federal Government would be the new country created. Israel and Palestine would retain their identity within their new capital cities. The federal government to be housed in a neutral site outside of the immediate area of Jerusalem.

1. Neither a Muslim or Jewish faith to be mixed into a democratic government directly elected by the people. Being how even Christians consider it a sacred land I would make separation of church and state mandatory in the constitution. First line even.

2. for the first 50 years a mandatory two party system where a president and vice president would have to be chosen from both sides. So if a Jewish Pres was elected his vice pres would have to be Palestinian, and vice versa. One party to represent the extreme and hard line of both groups.( I would force them to work together. The other to represent the more moderate view.)

3. All previous disputes and errors to be immediately pardoned by the new government for both sides. NO reparations, no apologies. NO one put to death or incarcerated.

4. The education system must be reworked form the ground up in the most intense de-programming ever done. Immediate integration of all people. I would actually put as mixed groups in schools as possible. Kids need to begin to form the foundation for relationships of the future country.

5. 2 new twin cities to be built on either side of the former Israel/ Palestine with the purpose of creating mixed communities. A new network of towns to be built in which housing is free for settlers willing to live in a mixed neighborhood. I would put neighbors of different faiths right next to each other. I would force them to live and work with each other. Other incentives to move into mixed neighborhoods might come in the form of free education in neighborhood schools or other services tax free.

6. I would be hesitant to place foreign troops in the country to keep the peace during the transition for many reasons, but a small UN attachment to all critical governmental positions would be good for the first 5 years.
They would be there so as to keep fairness in policy and representation of the people accurate beyond extremist views finding their way back into power. They would report directly to a world court set up to facilitate the transition and enforce the new peace.

7. No war in the middle east will be tolerated. Period. Any neighboring nation, group or person trying to incite violence in the holy land will be dealt with by the full force of the UN. I would give them kill on sight orders for all militants. No one has a right to own a weapon in the new country. Police see you with a fire arm, you go to jail for 5 years. Second offence or possession of more than small arms would result in a direct sentence of 10 years.
Repeat offenders would have their third strike effectively sending them to jail for 20 years of their natural life.

8. All taxes to be collected are to go only to social programs. No military. None. The world would commit to defending Israel/ Palestine for the first 5 years and then after if necessary upon revision every 5 years by the world court set up initially. Education and health to be the main concern for the average citizen. Perhaps launching a new industry that both sides can feel proud of. A new drive in energy production, textiles, anything. DO it big and make them all proud of their combined effort.

9. Dedicate all spending to investing in the citizenry and basic necessities and security. I say educate them and they will not fight to the death. Give them a book and they will not pick up a gun if they feel safe. An educated people make for a strong nation. A new sense of national pride in excellence in whatever field or industry will make for a unified people. Hell even sports. Look how Mandela used rugby to unify the broken south Africa.

10. most importantly I would address the issue of the displaced people. The homeless need basic housing. The sick and dying need medical attention. I would make all military personnel responsible for relief efforts. It would be a great step for both sides. Israel fixes what it broke in the land and the people and Palestine accepts what they desperately need for survival from their former enemy and new ally.

It is now Saturday. I wonder what is going to happen? Most likely nothing. Just more talking , but one can hope some one will do something and finally shut up.