Star and Crescent Moon Symbol of Satan

reply to post by CaptainNemo


My point was that the Pentagram has had multiple meanings over the years, as have many symbols. As important as we thing we might be, it's not up to us to determine which meaning for each symbol is correct. And we surely cannot make a blanket statement that any (insert symbol here) is evil. That is the height of ignorance.

God will let me know which ones he likes when I get to speak directly with him. Until then, I think I will just keep an open mind and try to learn as much as I can.

Did you read the link I provided, or did you just let your knee jerk?

Originally posted by paganini
So basically you are just stabbing in the dark here and taking vague knowledge of paganism then randomly equating it with satan ?

If i recall correctly in the old Hebrew scriptures satan was merely one of gods angels who was instructed to tempt man under gods command then report back to him on the persons character. Which pretty much makes your whole theory moot no?

edit on 16-3-2012 by paganini because: (no reason given)

His theory is pretty spot on. You're going to have to read past the book of Job to know what he's talking about.

"In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God." 2 Corinthians 4:4

Satan is not mentioned here but is certainly implied. Satan is the god (littleg) of THIS world. There is perversion all around you, open your eyes.!

Satan is but one of Gods sons, meant to pervert the minds of men. The act of God giving nations up to his sons has ocurred several times in the Bible. If you have at least a little comprehension of Biblical Hebrew, you know what I'm talking about.

Let's list them off.

"There were giants in the earth in those days; and aslo after that , when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old men of renown." Genesis 6:4

This of course is a reference to the Watchers. The gods who were assigned to watch over the Earth in the pre-dilluvian (before flood) age.

"These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood." - Genesis 10:32

"When the most High divided the nations their inheritence, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the sons of God" - Duet. 32:8

AFTER the flood a fresh new set of gods are assigned over the nations. This was a punitive act.

*Some texts associate "sons of God" with "Princes of Earth" It's mostly a Septaguint concept.

(Archangel Michael speaking) "Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? But now I will return to fight against the prince of Persia; and when I go out, behold, the prince of Greece will come." -Daniel 10:20

The archangel Michael is doing battle with the princes of the nations, divine beings, not earthly rulers.

THe enemies of God are the Princes of the nations (Can't find the scripture sorry) I.E AGAINST GOD'S WILL. They were given dominion over the EArth as a punitive act for mans persistent resistant to the most High. Their purpose is to contribute to the eschatalogical end times.

READ REVELATIONS!

I'm with 1nOne on this one. I'm not going to sit here and explain to people what's really going on when it was given to them. Go through your Bible again, read it carefully people.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
reply to post by network dude

 

Yeah, mysticism, something that Yeshua fervently warned against. Nice try though, but the pentagram does not represent Christianity. The pentagram is much more ancient.

The hexagram doesn't represent judaism either. David's shield never looked like that. The hexagram goes all the way back to Sumeria and Babylon and is even found in philistine and canaanite ruins.

The Star of David=Seal of Solomon=STAR OF MOLOCH

So how does it go from Satan being a servant of god who can not act and have any power god does not give him to ..... this here? Unless of course there is giant mistranslation of the material which is common in the Abrahamic faiths .

Then when you consider there hast been any logical process of linking these pagan dieties/symbols to satan and its back at square one. Merely calling something Satan amounts to little.

Originally posted by paganini
So how does it go from Satan being a servant of god who can not act and have any power god does not give him to ..... this here?

Unless of course there is giant mistranslation of the material which is common in the Abrahamic faiths .

Then when you consider there hast been any logical process of linking these pagan dieties/symbols to satan and its back at square one. Merely calling something Satan amounts to little.

Dude, read your Bible or re-read my post.

reply to post by paganini


I think it works like this,....I have shortcomings in my life and I can either accept responsibility for them, or find someone to blame. choice B is a much easier option to do.

reply to post by User8911

Although, due to collective conscience, if a symbol is used by the majority, prayed on, sacrificed for, seen has a deity it would empower that symbol.

Yes, but that symbols power is not manifested by the symbol itself but by the people who give it meaning. The upside down pentacle is only "evil" because we say it is, not because it is.

This could mean that, even tough the person wielding the symbol doesn't know what it stands for, it might still be an influence.

Your right it may have influence on someone who interpreted the symbol differently, I could view an upside down pentacle as a very positive sign of harmony and or peace and wear it on a T-shirt or necklace. If someone sees this and is offended and brands the wearer evil, that does not make it so because the intention of the wearer is for the symbol to be positive not negative. This is a basic tenant of mysticism, there are no absolutes...again reality is subjective.

The upside down pentagram is a bad sign. The point, meaning the spirit, pointing down doesn't sound positive.

There is no divine/cosmic law which dictates the meaning or intent of a shape. We do that, we place significance on the insignificant. That is what makes us special, the ability to create our own reality.

reply to post by Openeye


I totally understand your point of view and makes sense all the way.

I just can't say that you are 100% right and that maybe,
symbols do have a universal meaning and do influence.

I'm "agnostic" about the situation.

Originally posted by Openeye
Yes, but that symbols power is not manifested by the symbol itself but by the people who give it meaning. The upside down pentacle is only "evil" because we say it is, not because it is.

...

Your right it may have influence on someone who interpreted the symbol differently, I could view an upside down pentacle as a very positive sign of harmony and or peace and wear it on a T-shirt or necklace. If someone sees this and is offended and brands the wearer evil, that does not make it so because the intention of the wearer is for the symbol to be positive not negative. This is a basic tenant of mysticism, there are no absolutes...again reality is subjective.

Yeah, I posted a bit on this a few weeks back in regards to sigil magick and corporate logos. In his essay "Pop Magic", Grant Morrison introduces the Austin Spare model of sigil magick. Most of it I would agree with, but then he writes this part

VIRAL SIGILS
The viral sigil also known as the BRAND or LOGO is not of recent development (see "Christianity," "the Nazis" and any flag of any nation) but has become an inescapable global phenomenon in recent years. It's easy to see the Nazi movement as the last gasp of ImperialAge thinking; the visionary savages still thought world domination meant tramping over the"enemy" and seizing his real estate. If only they'd had the foresight to see that global domination has nothing to do with turf and everything to do with media they would have anticipated corporate stealth-violence methods and combined them with their undoubted design sense; the rejected artists who engineered the Third Reich might have created the 10th century's first global superbrand and spared the lives of many potential consumers. The McDonald's Golden Arches,the Nike swoosh and the Virgin autograph are all corporate viral sigils.

Corporate sigils are super-breeders. They attack unbranded imaginative space. They invade Red Square, they infest the cranky streets of Tibet, they etch themselves into hairstyles. They breed across clothing, turning people into advertising hoardings. They are a very powerful development in the history of sigil magic, which dates back to the first bison drawn on the first cave wall.The logo or brand, like any sigil, is a condensation, a compressed, symbolic summoning up of the world of desire which the corporation intends to represent. The logo is the only visible sign of the corporate intelligence seething behind it. Walt Disney died long ago but his sigil, that familiar,cartoonish signature, persists, carrying its own vast weight of meanings, associations, nostalgia and significance. People are born and grow up to become Disney executives, mouthing jargon and the credo of a living corporate entity. Walt Disney the man is long dead and frozen (or so folk myth would have it) but Disney, the immense invisible corporate egregore persists.Corporate entities are worth studying and can teach the observant magician much about what we really mean when we use the word "magic". They and other ghosts like them rule the world of the early 21st century.

But, as you say, symbols (and by extension sigils) only have the power that I invest in them. If I create a sigil with a particular chaos magick spell in mind, it will only work for me and be meaningless to anyone else. Corporate logos may have power for the corporation, but yield no power over anyone not already invested in their message. The symbol by itself conveys nothing. It's only in the eye of the beholder that it can have any power.

reply to post by 1nOne


The Obama flag? Are you serious?

I love how so many people can stand up & say Freemasonry is evil but the proof is either an extreme stretch that no one would ever believe unless they already believe we are evil or there is no proof at all. What does Christianity say about attacking people who live a different way than you do?

I always get a feeling of love when I see a crescent moon and Venus together, it never fails.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by paganini
So how does it go from Satan being a servant of god who can not act and have any power god does not give him to ..... this here?

Unless of course there is giant mistranslation of the material which is common in the Abrahamic faiths .

Then when you consider there hast been any logical process of linking these pagan dieties/symbols to satan and its back at square one. Merely calling something Satan amounts to little.

Dude, read your Bible or re-read my post.

Yes but you have to go look at texts and compare and contrast not just accept what is written and most importantly question why its there. Why would the earlier accounts of satan show him as being nothing more than gods errand boy who was powerless with out his command? It leaves the question that the modern notions of him are possibly incorrect. and sprung from mistranslation and bastardization of the story through the generations.

reply to post by CaptainNemo

So there is no star symbolism in Christianity?

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by CaptainNemo

 

I have never felt uncomfortable about being a Mason and a Christian. Most of the rituals are based from the Old Testament, and I don't see the symbols as pagan.

I think the Messiah is just fine with me being a Mason.

What level am I? For which body? Well, here is what I am in Freemasonry:

- Past Master and current Marshall of my home Lodge
- Worshipful Master of the Idaho Lodge of Research
- Past High Priest (no religious duties, just a commemorative title) and current King (2nd in command) of my Royal Arch Chapter from which I also received the chair degree "Order of High Priesthood"
- Soon to be installed as Grand Master of the 1st Veil for the Grand Chapter of Royal Arch Masons of Idaho
- Thrice Illustrious Master of my Council of Cryptic Masons (often referred to as Royal and Select Masters) and I will be going through the Order of the Silver Trowel next month (chair degree).
- Generalissimo (Yes, I know, you don't have to say it) of my Templar Commandery
- Member and soon to be Associate Patron of my Chapter of the Order of the Eastern Star
- Companion Knight in the York Rite College here in Idaho. I may nominate myself for Treasurer for this next year.
- I'm Prelate of the Boise Valley of the Ancient & Accepted Scottish Rite (32°)
- Fellow of the Grand College of Rites
- Member of the Ohio Asylum of Research
- Member of the Masonic Society
- I was just invited to join the Order of the Red Cross of Constantine

I also sit on several various committees at the Grand Lodge, Grand York Rite, and General Grand Chapter, Royal Arch Masons, International. Although, the most prominent title I go by would be Worshipful Master or Past Master. I never get introduced by all of these nor would I wish to.

reply to post by 1nOne

 

You mean like the freedom to assemble in private? And the freedom of religion?

edit on 15-3-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)

"Your freedom, your liberty, has become your curse." -Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj
www.telusplanet.net...

reply to post by paganini


I don't carry the orthodox view of Satan. That is, that there are two equivalent powers in Heaven. Satan, in my opinion can be viewed as sort of vice-regent to YHWH. He intercedes on YHWH's behalf, hence the name ha-satan (the accuser). We cannot assume that Satan decided to rebel, because it isn't there. There's alot the Bible is vague about, and there's a lot the Bible is detailed about. Satan is one of the vaguer topic. However, if we follow one of the themes of the Bible, it is clear that it is almost without doubt that Satan is the god of this world. The initial creation, the expulsion from Eden, times after the flood, are all instances of God leaving "watcher" being to be in control of parts of the Earth. It is explicitly stated that at times these beings are the enemies of God. Yes, Satan is subservient to his father, but he is not a fallen watcher like the original "watchers". His role in evil iniquity is just a piece of the puzzle.

Originally posted by Wonders
"Your freedom, your liberty, has become your curse." -Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj

If freedom and liberty are a curse, they are ones I can deal with.

I've come to finally understand why so many Abrahamic "religious" people are so ignorant; their very scriptures place knowledge in the column of "evil" things. Something that they (the founders of these religions) knew they would have to do if they were to suspend logic to push their mythologic tales as gospel truth, none more guilty than Christianity and Islam. To find proof of this, one doesn't have to dig very deep as Genesis is a prime example of how "knowledge" has been demomized by religion.

Originally Posted by CaptainNemo

I understand the freemasons do alot of charitable work and altruistic acts, but you don't at all feel uncomfortable being a Christian and a freemason? You're surrounded by pagan symbolism and odd rituals.

There's little about Christianity that isn't Pagan, including the Cross, the Resurrection, The Virgin Birth, The Nativity, The Flood stories, and on, and on, and on....

Christianity is basically Paganism, with just enough Jesus juice and Judaism to steal the thunder from the OT. The irony is, Islam has now done to Christianity, what Christianity did to paganism and Judaism. Funny how things turn out, isn't it?

***WARNING: THE FOLLOWING IS ONLY FOR INTELLIGENTSIA***

I'm not too late am I?

OK, just checked the thread. Looks like NO ONE here knows why there is a crescent moon with a "star" in the center, which is NOT Venus by the way.

BEHOLD, the greatest trick performed on mankind, EVER...

reply to post by DanteAltair


Your video didn't link, so I didn't watch it, but the " star and crescent ☪ " has a very long lineage, dating back as far as the 14th century BC, and has been linked to everything from Iran to Mithra to Mithradates.

The symbol is found all over the ancient world, and as such has never been pin-pointed to just one creating group or just one meaning.