First Neutrino Message Sent Through Rock; Could One Travel Back In Time?

I search to see if this had been posted yet and found nothing. So, here it is. I thought it was pretty interesting and well worth sharing.

Researchers from the University of Rochester and North Carolina State University have for the first time sent a message using a beam of neutrinos

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The article speculates that if the recent reports about neutrinos traveling faster then light are true,someone could send a message back in time.

My thought was this would be a likely way to try to detect signals from advanced civilization.

nice, thanks for posting.

they probably are already time travelling in cern.

Im not sure I follow,

How does a tiny particle travelling so fast (faster than light) goes thru dense matter,

correlate with time travel?

String Theory?

reply to post by villagesmithie


Thanks for the post. Very interesting, but I think the FTL Neutrinos have been found to be false and were due to clock synchronization problems, caused by a faulty cable during the experiment/s.

Originally posted by BiggerPicture
Im not sure I follow,

How does a tiny particle travelling so fast (faster than light) goes thru dense matter,

correlate with time travel?

String Theory?

If a particle travels faster than light, then it arrives before it was sent, in relativistic terms.

Think of it as extreme time dilation where the mathematical function crosses the zero line and therefore becomes inverse.

This is the time travel link.

neutrinos are known as the "ghost" particle
they pass through ordinary matter with ease
they are so small its like water through a sponge
they are smaller than electrons that make up the atoms they pass through

reply to post by BiggerPicture


Similarly, neutrinos carry no significant charge and atoms are largely empty space (some have said 99%).

A neutrino can pass right through the space occupied by an atom without disturbing any subatomic particles or itself being disturbed in trajectory. I. e: most of the time, it does not interact at all with matter.

It's hard to imagine how a message could be sent this way, at least with our technology. According to the article one in ten billion neutrinos are detected.

On the other hand a message that could travel near the speed of light and through matter would have it's advantages.

reply to post by chr0naut


Yep, I'm not sold on the "send a message back in time' thing. Just quoted the headline as it was.

reply to post by villagesmithie


I wonder if they'll send some through classical, pop or middle of the road?

That'd be a bit more like traveling back through time.

reply to post by BiggerPicture

How does a tiny particle travelling so fast (faster than light) goes thru dense matter,

The overwhelming percentage of all material is "empty space." Neutrons have the ability to pass through a lot of matter because of their lack of an electric charge, high mass, and high energy.

Passing through matter is not much of a problem for neutrons (less for neutrinos).

correlate with time travel?

It doesn't. People simply don't understand the implications of Relativity.

reply to post by chr0naut

If a particle travels faster than light, then it arrives before it was sent, in relativistic terms.

This is quite incorrect.

Based purely upon acoustics, I can conclude that a .50 caliber round arrived more than a second before it was fired.

Why, then, is it any more logical to conclude this must be the case with electromagnetic fields?

Think of it as extreme time dilation where the mathematical function crosses the zero line and therefore becomes inverse.

Is it possible to cool something to such a degree that it has a negative temperature?

The real world doesn't quite behave according to mathematical projections.

Special Relativity is an effect of the propagation of gravitational phenomena. Time dilation in special relativity is exactly the same as time dilation under general relativity. The cause is merely different.

Gravity propagates at the speed of light. Accelerating, therefore, increases the perceived density of a gravitational field. At the extremes of velocity, this accounts for time dilation as experienced by relativistic objects.

This is where quantum mechanics come into play ( I know people like to say "they don't play well together" - but that's really their own silliness) - Planck energy density can never be exceeded. Any massive particle moving near the speed of light will eventually contain enough energy so as to reach this limit. Only experimentation could really prove what would happen under these circumstances - but it is likely that attempts to exceed this energy density would result in a burst of Cerenkov radiation with showers of high-energy particles resulting from the evaporation of quantum singularities.

However, it is possible for spin-zero particles to tunnel through to the "other side" of the classical barrier and continue ahead of the mass (or what is left of it) at relativistic velocities.

Since time dilation is caused by gravitational density (whatever gravity is), and Planck maximums restrict the amount of time dilation that can be experienced (likely resulting in an energy-matter conversion process); there is no reason to suspect that moving faster than the speed of light constitutes a violation of causality (time travel).

For time travel to exist as it is described in relativity would require each Planck-space to exist in its own completely separate time "bubble." Such a model of time is useless to us, as our concept of time must inherently include 10^mind-shattering number of individual times. This is because Relativity presumes time is based upon the perception of events - since nonlocal bodies are not allowed to be in communication with each other outside of light.

It is arguably workable when you treat "whole" objects as a single, indivisible unit. It falls apart when you introduce something like gyroscopic motion and must figure that each individual particle in that same mass is under different relativistic effects (the particles on the outer edge of a centrifuge are moving slower as compared to the center). At which time - Special Relativity becomes simply unworkable without a universal frame of reference.

The problem gets even more crazy when exploring the Twin paradox. According to relativity, each mass perceives itself as stationary. Thus, it should never experience time dilation positive or negative. When we launch the shuttle into orbit - neither mass has either way of determining who is undergoing time dilation (the Earth should experience time dilation, according to the shuttle crew). One, however, must have experienced time dilation.

There are two ways of resolving this under Relativity. Either there is a preferred frame of reference that exists locally and can be accessed by all mater... or mass is able to "poll" the rest of the known universe to take into account all frames of reference to decide which mass actually accelerated.

You either accept that there's a preferential reference frame, or accept that there's instantaneous communication between all mass. There's no other logical alternative to resolving the twin paradox, as only one frame of reference can be true.

reply to post by villagesmithie


Take a view of the below, Japan were playing this game back in 2011
planetsave.com...

Originally posted by villagesmithie

The article speculates that if the recent reports about neutrinos traveling faster then light are true,someone could send a message back in time.

Ya don't say?


But how would the future encode or encrypt their messages? Would the future address the entire present (or past depending upon one's perspective) simultaneously?

Would the past have had to have dealed with such messages lost to us in the undertones of recorded history?

If the present and the future were at war with eachother then ... technicallly ... who started it first?

Seems to me that pondering such things may raise even more questions and paradoxes.

If communications with the future were possible, or messages have already been sent .... then are these alleged messages going from left to right like the rest of our language is supposed to be travelling, or are they going in reverse as they traverse backwards in time.....

boots / stood .... boots have been known to have stood.
trophy / effort .... a trophy is nothing more than physical proof of an effort.
beef / feed ..... people have been known to have feed on beef.
in lip / ni pil .... one of the first things we put in our lip(s) is a nipple (ni pil).

Ah, maybe it's just plain crazy to think about such things and entertain such ideas.

Truly the English I tout is telling you the truth.

Or ... whatever. I could be way off.




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