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baby killers

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posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 02:20 PM
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well hi peeps

considering recent events, and the backlash from them
considering some of the comments aimed at service personel
ive decided to share a little piece of one of my mates stan with you

now this may be a little different to what your used too ( dont ask me why people choose to make warie vids - meh they get the attention i suppose )
this however was produced by some brit troops that i supported on a few jobs and they provided my QRF on a few others

im even in it very briefly



damn what scumbag psycho baby killers they are

if anyone should ever have any questions about stan or any other place where we are or you think we may be
feel free to u2u me
edit on 15-3-2012 by Neocrusader because: Auto




posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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All it takes is a few bad apples to turn our entire country against it's own soldiers. People seem to forget that it's our fathers, our brothers, our husbands, and our sons that are out there because they wanted to serve their country. Our government is the one that sent them out there, be mad at that, not the soldiers.

Was that they guy from Top Gear in that vid?



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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if someone came into your home town .. lets say "small town amreica" and started killing your friends and family ...


would you make a distinction between the people the killed the babys and the people that killed your adult family and friends?


would you call them all bad guys or would the baby killers really really bad guys ?



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 02:45 PM
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Well I certainly didn't call anyone 'baby killers', I might have made a reference to the lack of humanity that soldiers have to develop to withstand long durations of war, and this is an observation, not some finger pointing game blaming it all on the soldiers.

But the sadness of the situation is, you're trying to equate soldiers who go into a country as an occupying force, with soldiers who actually fight to defend their country, their families, their land WITHIN THEIR COUNTRY, when attacked. They're not equal at all. One fights for honor, the other, simply takes orders like an executionist.

The US having so many military personel stationed all over the world, has broken the age old belief that being a soldier is an honorable thing. This was the government that did this, this was the people that voted for it to be done that did this. Soldiers are still soldiers, nothing but peons in the hands of leaders. But the honor in war is only present when you have to kill to defend yourself, not when you kill as an occupying force. So its kind of sad that people have to resort to: oh were fighting for our country! BS when they're obviously, simply following orders to occupy other peoples countries. Countries who's people have no beef with you, your land, your house your wife or your kids.


edit on 15-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


Thanks for the reply
You and I have found ourselves on opposite sides of a discussion before - but then also supporting each other in another - so I value your input and you always have a level headed approach to a discussion

But.........lol
The FACT is there were many MANY reasons for going into afghan
Only a few were mentioned - and a few have been ....found out ? .......discovered?.......speculated about
However the truth is there are many reasons you dont know about and I regularly search the net to see if anyone's figured them out, atleast the few im aware of ( well you are aware kinda...but haven't connected the right dots yet .....lol no matter how often I hint at them )
I'm sure yourself ( and many at ats ) KNOW that world events and politics are very deep, vast , subversive, SCARY
But all part of a bigger picture - Afghanistan isn't just about Afghanistan or what's there
edit on 15-3-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by spaceg0at
 


Hmmm nice thinking
So all Muslims are terrorists then eh
By your thinking

All priests are kiddie fiddlers ?
Hmm some more ?



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by Under Water
 


Yeah it was
3 of them came out and did a tour for the Brit troops
We got to see them too but I'm not into cars
However the cute little blonde that was with them ........



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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I've learned that there is a large number of people on ATS that are just like the media. They only care and want to see the negative aspects of military service. I can't even post anything military related without being called a phsyco or a murderer and baby killer. But that's ok, because those people don't know me or what I have done. They don't know all the good we did for alot of people because it's just the negative stories that come to light. I just let it roll off my shoulders as much as i can.

Some people have their views and agendas and there is no way to reason with them. Although I have noticed lately people doing less of the attacking and more real debated discussions and being respectfull of others opinions.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by usmc0311
 


Couldn't have put it better myself
Star and thanks for your input



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by usmc0311
 


Very well said.

I just retired in Dec after 16 years. I had good and bad experiences. I have friends that I love dearly who are still in. I know these people. They are not killers or monsters. They are people just like everyone else.

I let insults to the troops in roll off my back as much as possible also. But sometimes it gets hella hard. Sometimes I have to stop and take a breathe before I go in, guns blazing in defense of those I love. In defense of myself because I used to be one of those troops.

I hate wide generalizations. All they do is sow the seeds of our own destruction.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by Neocrusader
 


Yes, this reason to invade Afghanistan was apart of the whole New World Order that they deemed necessary for some reason. No one thought to themselves, well if we go in, these people are going to consider us an occupying force and that might give Taliban the upper hand to recruit more people, since well, there is honor in fighting an occupying force. But you can't very call an entire country terrorists and kill all of them can you?

Being a soldier isn't easy at all, not just because you have to endure the 'hell of war' as Panetta called it, but because you carry the burden of doing the dirty work while your family and friends are at home sleeping in peace and quiet. To me, these wars that have shaped countries, and perhaps many generations to come on both sides, have done nothing but make us question how much should a soldier really have to obey. A soldier is a human being, shouldn't a human being be able to refuse an order he/she deems offensive to their values? Shouldn't a soldier be able to question just a little?

The questioning continues.
edit on 15-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by nusnus
But the honor in war is only present when you have to kill to defend yourself, not when you kill as an occupying force.

edit on 15-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)


You are definitely right on a philosophical level of things but we are talking real life here.

Only those who have experienced war, truly understand there is no good or bad side. Combat equals killing and the bad guys are killing and the good guys are killing and everything is bad. It is called a state of chaos and it is what it is.

Just remember when SHTF everyone including you and me will be in hiding, but the soldiers (the good and the bad) will be out there doing their job, we must respect that.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


All very good points
But even when you go to the top
The new world order
Do you really believe there's only one or two sides to that ?
Just because no ones admitted it
doesn't mean it hasn't happened
It's under your nose
It's just happening a little different than before

Damn my hearts pounding - thank you ;-)
edit on 15-3-2012 by Neocrusader because: Added



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:21 PM
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reply to post by Exitt
 


Is this why so many American's are afraid (and consequently are hoarding food and weaponry as we speak) of when and if the government decides to declare martial law?

If soldiers are such 'nice human beings' then what do you have to be afraid of?

The reality is, the soldiers of the US will obey orders to kill anything and anyone that goes against the government. If obeying your leader to the T is something that demands respect, then yes they can have the respect they want. But don't expect me to like what they've become: mindlessly obeying everything their leader says.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


Whoa steady on there
Have I really read you wrong ?
Do you think all modern soldiers are that dum
The soldier infront of you could be reading this thread, their not that different to you
Am I ? Is that how I come across ?

But ultimately the military isn't in league with the gov
If anything it against - but politics !
The gov you vote for controls the very jobs, funding, instillations, pay ect
If the mil disobeys they get cut
Look at Iran the gov saying their a threat
The mil saying no their not - it's a constant political battle between the two With the government wanting military action, but the military not wanting too ( they just can't say so in public ! )
But the mil can only 'veto' so many - to put it in simplest terms
or else next funding review .......
Or the mil have to go in to tidy up the politicians mess ( they just can't say so in public )



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by Neocrusader
 


No you haven't read me wrong. I'm not among those who bothers hoarding anything so I wouldn't know.

Heck I'm not even American. But I'm making observations here. And you haven't answered my question, what do people have to be afraid of in the event of martial law?

I can compare this to the Egyptians, who when they saw their military come in and kick hooligan a$$ in Tahrir Square, cheered out of delight. Because to them, their army represents a bunch of saviors.

Would the average American feel so cheery if they saw the army stepping in?
edit on 15-3-2012 by nusnus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


No no no you take me wrong
What I meant was do you really believe that all soldiers will defend their gov over their people
But then as you say your not from America
I must admit I .........dislike being assumed as an American ( the first thing I'll do when having a debate with someone is have a quick look at past relevant posts and intro )
But I atleast assumed you were from what some call the developed world
For all I know you could live in deepest darkest ugaboogastan
edit on 15-3-2012 by Neocrusader because: Auto ?



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by Neocrusader
 


LOL well you got me laughing with the last line there

So you're saying they have nothing to be afraid of? Then they're either crazy for hoarding so much over so little?

The fact is, I've grown up abroad and lived in a lot of different countries so I was spared the patriotism of my own nationality, made lots of friends all over the world and can speak 3 languages fluently. I might consider myself developed, but thats not the subject right now.

I've been in the US for two years and have seen some phenomenon I've never seen anywhere else. Like the fact that people actually bother hoarding food and weaponry for the SHTF, martial law, aliens, UFO's you name it. And I don't get it. But I was assuming that they know something about their own kind that I don't know about. And I was hoping you could answer that for me. But you're simply implying they have nothing to fear, which to me says either you think all these people are crazy, or you don't really know your own people.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


But to answer your question ...... I can't really either .......I'm not American nor in America
But I would think
That yes there will be certain elements that will remain loyal to the gov
There will be an explosion in public sector security firms in it for financial gain With the use of foreign contractors and personel
Then UN troops
But you must remember and appreciate there are MANY vets here most of whom are not on the govs side
These are the people and the MILLIONS out there like them will be YOUR front line YOUR instructors YOUR guerilla's YOUR freedom fighters
That's one small benefit of our society at the moment.....it is full of vets .....that have awoken.....and more are waking up every day

Hope you don't really live in somewhere like that truly
Deny ignorence

edit on 15-3-2012 by Neocrusader because: Auto



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 05:10 PM
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reply to post by nusnus
 


I am not from the USA and i think the worst about the USA government, pure evil is what they are but this is a thread about soldiers and i never said they were 'nice'.



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