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The Non-Dual Is Best Understood Through Extreme Expression Of Polarity

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posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 12:33 AM
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The non-dual is understood most profoundly through extreme and intense expression of polarities. Non-dual can be accurately expressed through sticking to how things are “all one,” and these sorts of ideas, but this over time becomes bland and uninformative. If all is one, why must we be so careful to always remain neutral on everything? No no, this non-duality, the so-called middle way, is best understood through being able to integrate extreme expressions of polarity. It’s easy to say you understand the non-dual when you constantly surround yourself with statements of neutrality. Understanding and integration of the truth of the non-dual can only occur through immersing one’s self in opposing extremisms. Swinging back and forth between polarities, and pushing further and further towards more and more intense expression of each polar end. You must understand all manner of APPARENTLY dualistic expression in order to fully realize the truth of the non-dual.
edit on 15-3-2012 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-3-2012 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 12:37 AM
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All about balance, the laws of physics, every reaction has a = and opposite reaction.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 01:52 AM
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reply to post by TheJourney
 


An interesting book to read that covers the idea of 'non-dualism' as it pertains to philosophy and metaphysics is "The Disapperarance of The Universe" Gary R. Renard.

"Without you to percieve it, the universe is not here, but logic would have to dictate that if the universe is not here, then you are also not here. In order to make the illusion of existence, you must take oneness and seemingly divide it, which is precisely what you've done. It's all a trick."

"When Buddha said, "I am awake," he meant he realized that he was not actually a participant in the illusion, but the maker of the entire illusion."

Then he goes on to explore the conversation of the duality in the false perception of You and 'God'. Then the false thinking that 'God' and Universe are of a form of duality, but rather two mutually exclusive, and that one is not to be used in any form of measure in any opposing fashions. For one is not the other, escaping the pagan, material base, Old Testament type of creation story. Interestingly enough, the role of Jesus is front and center during the discussion...

Fascinating read, I suggest checking it out to hear another version of what you are talking about.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:04 AM
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reply to post by TheJourney
 


Well put.

I like non-duality, but neutrality and uniformity does get boring after a while. I've been working towards acheiving a balance between boredom and drama. Too much of either and my emotional well-being is adversely affected.

50/50 isn't the only form of balance.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:15 AM
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what is the point of realizing the truth? ive done it about billion times.. i just keep forgetting it again.

i cant understand how monks and yogis maintain that vibe...... but it probably has something to do with not having jobs or lives of distraction.

one of these days i need to get around to giving all my stuff away..

but still, what would be the point exactly? if the entire world were nothing but enlightened people sitting around peacefully... what would be the point?

life seems like nothing but a distraction... from what?

sometimes i worry that the truth of the truth is that "God" is bored out of his mind for all of eternity.
edit on 15-3-2012 by BohemianBrim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:28 AM
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"When Buddha said, "I am awake," he meant he realized that he was not actually a participant in the illusion, but the maker of the entire illusion."


I like this a lot!



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:53 AM
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From personal experience, I can say it's true. It's true because to understand non-duality, you must have experienced extremes in life. No matter how much you read on this subject matter, experience can definitely show you this... 'truth', as some people would say.

In the words of Musashi, "to know what exists, you must know what does not exist."



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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reply to post by finalflash
 


The statement is:
“By knowing things that exist, you can know that which does not exist.”

Recognize the things as things but recognize and know what 'sees and knows' the things. Know that the things cannot appear without the knower, it is one process, seeing and seen. The knower is the space on which all things appear.
The canvas has to be before a painting can be painted.
edit on 15-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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As we might grasp, Life is the communion of Order and Charity. This is very similar to what the OP has said. Our reality was formed where there was a Void. Thus, it is easily understand that we exist at the point in which Life begins to separate. What does this mean? Order without Charity becomes Pride. Charity without Order becomes Chaos. In this world, we see images/echoes of Life which we appreciate as Order/Charity. We also see decay which we call Chaos or Pride. Our unction/passion should be to express the image of Life. Just as a seed is planted, grows and sows seeds, we are to follow in the same "way." Where we do not express both Order and Charity, we decay back into the dirt just as a seed that did not take root. In the end, all things work as an altar for that which is an offering of incense to Life. We are certainly all one breath of life "from below," but only those seeds who commune with the breath of life "from above" will produce fruit that is fully consumed by the Gardener and then commune with Them forever.
Cheers.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
 

I hope you will follow this through;
Clearly, freedom exists apart from our ability to express it. Adopting an alternate view is blind bondage to blind bondage (in other words, it's a "trap"). By claiming that freedom does not exist until we express it, we carry far more burdens than we are able to justify. More so, we easily reason that the more that we understand, the more free we become. One person might label an item trash and throw it away while another is more profitable and makes use of the item because of the wisdom that is in them.

The cosmos are an incubator of wisdom, this is a realm of "beginning freedom." The cosmos are not defined by our wisdom, they foster wisdom. We are both more free and less free than is understood or expressed by the doctrines of the living dead.



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Dasher
reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
 

I hope you will follow this through;
Clearly, freedom exists apart from our ability to express it. Adopting an alternate view is blind bondage to blind bondage (in other words, it's a "trap"). By claiming that freedom does not exist until we express it, we carry far more burdens than we are able to justify. More so, we easily reason that the more that we understand, the more free we become. One person might label an item trash and throw it away while another is more profitable and makes use of the item because of the wisdom that is in them.

The cosmos are an incubator of wisdom, this is a realm of "beginning freedom." The cosmos are not defined by our wisdom, they foster wisdom. We are both more free and less free than is understood or expressed by the doctrines of the living dead.


The burden of freedom is not to be used to justify any means of escaping any truths...
"Oh, that's a burden, it can't be true." We live in an expand, attract, and decay universe, everything is cause and effect, even down to the cognitive perception of freewill. Which becomes a tricky subject, for when you really get down to the grit of the topic, you soon realize how little freewill there is(if any at all) and that a form of destiny or script has already been layed out. The very construct in which you use to practice 'freewill' is created out of 'cause' in which gives way to building(through influence) the mind that is allowed to make thought. Just because we can recognize the dualities of possible 'causes' doesn't mean that it escapes the 'effect' in which it is derived from.
I think that made sense lol.

Why is it that the more we understand, the more free we become. For if the universe, and our conscious understanding of it, are of a dualistic nature. That same understanding becomes also the contributing factor in the very limiting of these freedoms. Examples being, media, guns, TV, essentially all communications tools, all logistics, motor vehicles.... everything.

Just like the formation of Galaxies and the universe alike, so is the developement of our brains, and a healthy one gives way to cognition.
Which is illustrated in this image(link below)
www.nytimes.com...

Is wisdom not just a construct of a deeper understanding of self, in return is a deeper understanding of what surrounds(others, universe, everything). Then gives way to action, which does not escape the cause and effect that is the ruler of all things inanimate and animate alike. Is it possible that the 'Universe' is wise, and through a fractal like repitition of creation, creates beings in which 'consciously' share this very same notion.
Hence in a pantheistic or pagan means of describing it, one could say... that we were made in his(god=universe) image.

People like to toss around that word freedom, like they have the slightest clue to what it means... but what does it really mean. Is it liberty, is it the ability to speak, act, and feel 'freely'... oh wait, all of which is dictated by previous cause and effect in which allowed this, and can't escape it. 'Negative Liberty' can never be escaped, for it can always be percieved in a universe of duality. So what, now there's no such thing as freedom? Are we in bondage to that of a soul of a slave, to ourselves as we base everything on perceptions of the external?
Well... if this is true, then there is only one way to escape it... to acknowledge the very idea that we are the creators of this illusionary existence, and that we are not just a part of someone or something elses, to escape dualism and return to 'oneness'.

meh...



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
 


I believe that you are missing my point by injecting the common beliefs of others into my communication.

I do not understand your first paragraph except that you humbly acknowledged that you are unsure of the magnitude of our spiritual bondage. So, again, I will say that this realm, that is, everything we see and understand to be under physical laws, are a place which fosters freedom. The sort of freedom that we enter into as we grow in understanding and the expression thereby is limited and spiritually juvenile. The scope of "freedom" is not defined by our ability to exercise our own will. That was one of my primary points in posting to you.

Your second paragraph indicates that you do not understand the distinction between the cosmos and that which brought forth the cosmos. Clearly, we understand that life exists, even in our decaying realm. And we can, in part, comprehend the void. As we work our way up from there, noting each "duality," we should find ourselves experiencing recursive duality that stretches beyond our abilities to measure/observe. More so, we will reach a point at which the decay begins to fade and Life becomes simply The Living. You seem to refer to that as non-duality, but I am not sure if I understand that correctly. Regardless, another primary point I was making in posting to you was that Freedom/Life is independent of perception and it is that which we should be "moving towards." All other courses are those of lost sheep who are devoured by wolves and thieves.

Regarding your fourth paragraph:
No, wisdom is not a deeper understanding of self, although wisdom does enable a deeper understanding of self. Wisdom is growth in spiritual observation/judgment and also expression (I mentioned this in a different form in the first paragraph of this post). One of the actions derived from such growth is self-control, but self-control does not necessarily bring about spiritual wisdom. This is why many great men/women can walk the earth as gods and yet be counted among the goats. More so, and conversely, in the spiritual wise and earthly meek, we should observe that the wisdom which grows in them is actually alive itself. Life is not dead or it would not be Life. Wisdom is not a "dumb force," but rather, it is a living being far from our outward understanding, but living within any of our inward understanding. This last statement is more lucid than it might appear to many.

So then, your right in terms of outward understanding, but to really commune with that which you are discussing, it is important to digest the distinction of Creator and created creators. Not every vessel that Life fills is used for the great feast. Some are emptied and destroyed to make way for things that are more useful. As "harsh" as that sounds, please keep in mind that nothing is owed anything by Life, but it is Life that owns all. In this we can also begin to rationalize some of the bondage that lays hold of us from our birth despite our radical departure from animal conduct.

And in your last paragraph, I very much understand that it is normal for people to take claim of that which is not theirs, but I do warn you against taking claim of the authorship of this "womb" (the cosmos) in order to find solace/control. While I am not personally "pleased" by it, I am content and thankful that I am "trapped." It is much better than not existing. Besides, it is the truth of my non-existence at one point that is the root of my bondage.
Remember; A promise of Life is that after the work, there is rest.

To those who take freedom, the little freedom they have will be taken away. For those who are thankful for the little freedom they have, they will be given more freedom.

Imagine a Shepherd who leaves his sheep to grow for a little while. He sets them off to "self-regulate." Some realize their limitations as sheep and rebel, crying out, "I am my own flock, I will do as I will!" In this, they set off into the wilderness and are ensnared by the wild (chaos). Their false freedom was their bondage and condemnation. Other sheep realize their limitations as sheep and rebel, crying out, "These other sheep are my flock, I will do as I will!" In this, they set off ensnaring other sheep and conducting themselves like thieves and wolves (and later, when the Good Shepherd returns, He beats them for their thefts). Their false freedom was their condemnation and bondage.

So, for now I am trapped, but later, I will be as a Shepherd, able to move through the wilderness without fear, able to give to the weaker sheep without abuse or faltering. Let us grow in understanding according to that which is Truth, and let us be thankful for what little we have, recognizing how little and how much we have.


edit on 3/15/2012 by Dasher because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Dasher
 


"'Negative Liberty' can never be escaped, for it can always be percieved in a
universe of duality. So what, now there's no such thing as freedom? Are we in
bondage to that of a soul of a slave, to ourselves as we base everything on
perceptions of the external?"
My understanding of 'soul of a slave' and bondage, which I actually mis-spoke
and meant spirit of a slave.
There is always liberty, for it is expression, considering no two people are
the exact same, their means of action, derived from cognitive bias and
predisposition as well as subjection towards enforced endoctrinations.
Freedom on all planes eventually recognize and can not escape the influence
of personal or external negative liberty or positive liberty from our lives.
Always continuing to build off of what has been presented to us, Monkey see
Monkey do. AKA we essentially define ourselves on all perceptions of the
external. And this can not be escaped, as we always pay homage to a higher
authority, structure, or means outside of self. Unless you are to place self
as 'God', which I would not say is an inaccurate statement. If not, we are
then we are always in bondage.
This is where the shadow dissipates, and the recognition of inner self, past
the ego and expression... allowing the acknowledgement that we create the
illusion, and that we are not simply a part of anothers, but that we are all
one previous to this state of duality.
My idea of non-duality is one of singularity, previous to duality, not sure
where you got all that from... I'm not all that good at explaining things,
and much of what I say, I'm only reiterating what others have said. It's not
that these are my truths, but means of discussing the topic I suppose.
since when was wisdom
"No, wisdom is not a deeper understanding of self, although wisdom does
enable a deeper understanding of self. Wisdom is growth in spiritual
observation/judgment and also expression (I mentioned this in a different
form in the first paragraph of this post). One of the actions derived from
such growth is self-control, but self-control does not necessarily bring
about spiritual wisdom."
what?
If wisdom is some 'spiritual growth' of observation, does that not give
premise towards a deeper understanding of self?
Are we trying to describe the same side of a coin, with different word?
For I'm pretty sure action or expression is based on this growth....
Is wisdom, 'all seeing' or 'all knowing' not to creation, as death is to
ignorance and the blind? Of course life is not dead, nor does life come from
death. Life does not die, it transforms, like that of matter. In regarding it
this way, life is always moving towards one direction, CREATION, this is
where you start to escape dualism, enter 'semi-dualism' and approach
singularity, and being one with 'god'. Polarity is from a negative and
positive opposing eachother, but not as ray and going on for infinity(or are
they?). Once you approach the end of one of these poles, well this area can
be defined.
Is this the 'all knowing', the 'all seeing' eye, the alpha and omega, the
creator, GOD. Maybe.... Or does it work in the opposite direction, towards
the point in which opposition and duality stems from, in which is a
singularity, as well could be argued to carry the same characteristics.
If you have all the answers, I'm all ears.
BTW, no I do not make claim of authorship to the womb...
Although I haven't expressed my understanding, I'd say we have very similar
perceptions of what it is to be. Just different references and means of
explaining it. I'm not one for shepard and flock



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 12:07 AM
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reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
 


To address "spirit of a slave":
Your clarification is warranted, but I am unsure if you fully understand how it is more accurate.
Continuing;
In one sense, yes, we should have a spirit of a slave in regards to our expressions towards each other. This is how a gracious Creator gave to us. However, because those who express the likeness of the Creator do so because they had been made into "heirs" of the inheritance of God, the Spirit which filled them is, outside of our realm, truly free and It makes the vessel which They filled free as well (in a sense of renewing/transforming).

Freedom for all at all times? In a way, yes, in a way, no. If you are lost and do not know your way, you are free to wander. You are also free to know your location and know your desired destination. However, there is a great distinction between knowing and understanding. In understanding your location and destination, you are able to then "cover more ground" whereas those who only know are only able to continue wandering. So while we are "free," it is a freedom which causes destruction. If I am free from OrderCharity, then I am chaos and pride. I hope this will help you see that there is a difference between false freedom and eternal life. And I also hope that it will help you see that we wear bondage as a robe. Remember, we are the only animals that deem ourselves "naked." This is a result of an intrinsic recognition of our bondage. It is also a great honor that we are the "priestly animals."

With Life, freedom is compassion, but with Man, freedom is chaos/rebellion. With Life, wisdom is understanding/understanding expressed, but with Man, wisdom is opportune/pride. Certainly, true wisdom leads to a better self-knowing, but it is not by knowing that we increase in freedom. It is in understanding. Understanding is not able to be "achieved," but rather, it is given. More specifically, Life is not able to be "achieved," it "resides."

I am fairly certain that we are not describing the same thing with different words. Does wisdom not give
premise towards a deeper understanding of self? Again, wisdom does not grow within a person because they understand themselves. Wisdom is that which allows a person to understand themselves. In other words; I am not able to see myself clearly because I saw myself, but I am able to see myself clearly because I have been made to see.

This womb of a universe is like a vine which produces fruit. We are growing on it and the promise is that the Maker/Gardener moves to consume the good fruit and, thus, brings the fruit into a greater communion. The common mindset has the situation reversed, believing that Man is intrinsically free and God is simply waiting and hoping that He gets a return on His investment. Again, not so. The Spirit of God does move and nourish Their Children. It has become rare again, as in the days shortly before Christ and as in the days of Noah. But this should not be surprising. In such a barren place, the Creator does still reap a magnitude.



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 12:24 AM
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What you said can be summed up simply in a old saying:

"Werk'n both ends to the middle."

Neutrality is Zeroness.


Ribbit



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by ButtUglyToad
What you said can be summed up simply in a old saying:

"Werk'n both ends to the middle."

Neutrality is Zeroness.


Ribbit


Again, both rays or whatever of duality emanate from a point of singularity, aka singular, aka 1, aka in the middle of a recognizebale duality which is two. There for neutrality is of 1. This is not where 'ends' meet, but where these two polarities emanate.





Neutral element or identity element (mathematics), a special type of element of a set with respect to a binary operation on that set, such if applied to, or operated with any element of the set, causes no change to this last element


A singularity that is a functional prerequisite to duality(binary), when applied to new set it influences no change, for it is a construct of the operator in the first place...
round about way of explaining it...



Neutral solution (chemistry), a solution which is neither acidic nor basic


Again neither, but is the 'Preliminary injunction' or sustenance in which gives way to acidic or base...
pure water, which is actually an amazing analogy to make when fully discussed for it has many correlations with previously used usages of the idea of water and creation stories, and even psychology to metaphysics.



Neutral particle (physics), a particle without electrical charge


Again, neither a construct of polarity, or negative and positive charge. Many attribute this definition to photons, neutrons and neutrinos alike, which like that of water also have strong implications when correlated with that the history of their usage in creation stories, ancient texts, pyschology to metaphysics.

All from, en.wikipedia.org...




The Neutral level of the Neutral level"Neutral" is a word that came into known use in English 1549[1] and refers to a mutually understood non-dual background. "Neuter" has been in use since the 14th century and is composed of ne meaning "not" + uter meaning which of two, thus synonymous with neither [1] The Neutral state is often misinterpreted as a passive state, but it should be understood as much not-passive as not-active. It literally refers to the non-dual state of body and mind, you and me or of any conflict.

en.wikipedia.org...

Simply put...

NEUTRALITY IS ONENESS...
I'm not sure if you are trolling me, or you just think it's funny to poke my side in regards to this topic... I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. At least, I can feel justified by presenting endless supporting evidence for my arguement.

::Meow::



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by Dasher
 


Before I continue to address any more of your comments, I suggest not bringing forth any form of scripture or doctine(teachings). For the truth in which we may uncover, or come to will only be lost in word games.

I may not be the brightest bulb on the tree, but I am fairly well versed in the usages of conceptual metaphors and the practice of word association. Then to apply any individuals interputation often times becomes a distraction, and not conducive to any real denial of ignorance.

Not to be hypocritical, but this is where I see the message and words of Jesus as being lost, and subject to false indoctrinations. As our cognitive strategies all differ for they are a construct of cognitive bias, predisposition, and other fancy terminology. Through the evolution of Terminologia Histologica, and controlled vocabulary being the basis for communicating between conceptual thresholds, to speak metaphorically or by means of analogy will very quickly lose any real truth, unless we are to define every aspect in a lexicographic fashion. In which I do not wish to take the time to define. hence my abrassive approach to the Toads comment, for it's the very same thing... the monotony of defining.

reply to follow, in regards to your previous post



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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reply to post by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS
 


I am generally disinterested in complying with your request.
Do not lay blame onto Truth what is the fault of Man. Whether it be one religion or another, we should be less concerned with the outward expression and more concerned with the Truth of the understanding of expression. This specifically correlates to most of what I am trying to share with you.

More so, it was you who first brought up a particular doctrine that was "written down." So then, if you are unwilling to "weed out" that which is not Truth simply because of one minor thing or another, and you simply want to be reactionary based upon personal stigmas, I am also certain that neither of us will grow from it.

Please be open to Truth and be considerate when you do not agree, but ruling out something because it is written is unreasonable. We are "writing," so can that act nullify Truth upon the letters being typed, or later upon being read? How about, the decay you wish to avoid is found in blind observation (read, the observer) rather than any particular delivery method/group itself.

While I do look forward to your response, if it deviates from godly conduct, I will excuse myself from our exchanges. Thanks for your consideration!



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

Originally posted by ButtUglyToad
What you said can be summed up simply in a old saying:

"Werk'n both ends to the middle."

Neutrality is Zeroness.


Ribbit


Again, both rays or whatever of duality emanate from a point of singularity, aka singular, aka 1, aka in the middle of a recognizebale duality which is two. There for neutrality is of 1. This is not where 'ends' meet, but where these two polarities emanate.



You need to apply the Law of Opposites to what I said:

"Law of Opposites - opposites cannot exist without each other and if one exists, so too does the other, with the opposing opposites comprising Source and Source comprising the opposing opposites."

True Infinite goes both directions.


Negative Neutral Positive

Negative Zero Positive

Negative & Positive comprise SourCe Neutral/Zero and SourCe Neutral/Zero comprises the Negative & Positive.

"Everything is Relative to SourCe and SourCe is Relative to Everything."

Ribbit



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by MESSAGEFROMTHESTARS

Simply put...

NEUTRALITY IS ONENESS...



Neutrality is ZERONESS!


You and most everyone else has bought into being One when the truth is, you entered this Game as Zero and you will exit this Game as Zero, it's figuring that out during this Game (experiment) that's the purpose of this Game.


Ribbit




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