Leon Panetta wants to execute the soldier in the Afghanistan massacre

Originally posted by Cosmic911
I believe the Secretary just stated the death penalty was a consideration. The soldier was just flown out yesterday to another country. I don't even think there is a verdict. He's probably still undergoing investigation, and a serious psychological one at that.

Indeed... Panetta seems to only have agreed with what is allowed under the system. I just caught news reports a few minutes ago on TV about the Afghani's going totally nuts over him being flown out. They're calling for Karzai to cut off ties..(hows that supposed to work?? lol) until we bring the soldier back for the Afghanis.

This looks to be getting bad.... I say, get him home and check him out in the U.S...but home is where he needs to face whatever justice may be coming.

reply to post by Hillarie


The storyline is incredible to begin with: 1) a drunk U.S. servicemember committed these acts; 2) the intoxicated servicemember managed to bypass security or was allowed to depart KAF of his own drunken state. No news yet on just how he accomplished this slip and returned to base (perhaps for reasons of security).

An idea worth considering is that news out of Afghanistan may not reflect all pertinent facts. I'm not suggesting a lack of journalistic integrity, but rather that information provided for media consumption may be skewed for one reason or another. Now that ISAF is in damage control the latest information reveals the servicemember suffered head trauma while serving in Iraq. Relevance? I mean relevance as DOD perceives/defines it and not what images and ideas this information is intended to create in the public's mind. And what about the servicemember's chain of command? To my knowledge there's been zero information about the dude's unit & chain of command. Nothing even so general as he's an artillery guru, an infantryman, an MP, a super-secret squirrel, enlisted, commissioned, etc. etc. It seems very hush-hush except for three focus points: a drunken, rogue U.S. servicemember who suffered head trauma in Iraq committed these acts.

What do I believe? There were victims. On a grand scale that's more or less a trivial constant in Afghanistan; moreover, U.S. policy in Afghanistan facilitates victimization, whether intended or not. As for the drunken, rogue U.S. servicemember who suffered head trauma in Iraq theme I don't believe it's ... the whole story.

I believe that I'm not alone when I say next time Obama and any others who call for war should go themselves.
As for the soldier, I think that an execution may be justice done. If one of the people killed was a daughter, mother, brother, etc. I know many would be tying the noose for this guy. I sure would be. The whole mental health thing is a way for him to pass the blame on someone else. He should not have been sent there so many times, granted, but the fact that he was sent does not excuse the fact that he took the lives of many innocents.
A letter of apology would be salt in the wound, at least for me. He killed many people, and just because he is sorry everything is okay? No. I support an execution for this man, an eye for an eye, a life for a life.

Just handle him to the Afghan autorities !!
after killing 15 children and woman
he diserve no more head on his shoulder

How many times he has been deployed, or what his mental state was/is means nothing. He killed innocent people, even children. The whole 'he had mental issues' excuse is getting old. If someone from another country came in your neighborhood and killed your family, and the people next door...and the family in the next house, would you still be claiming 'oh its ok because he wasn't mentally stable?' The whole mental excuse is just another way to get him out of trouble and say 'its alright we'll give him pills when he gets back, we will take care of this poor troubled soldier.'

Execute him? Yes. Isn't that what happens to serial killers here in the United States sometimes? Pretty sure it still happens, and this case is no different, other than it happened overseas. So therefore, he should be turned over to the Afghans and executed.

Oh, and this is all coming from an active duty soldier..

reply to post by SGTSECRET


No actually its not. In the US we have mens rea...

A persons mental status can play a factor as to what a person is charged with or if the person is even mentally competent enough to stand trial.

The guy possibly violated the UCMJ, not Sharia law. As far as the Taliban and the situation they dont want justice - they want revenge. He would not get a fair trial, at all, provided there was one, which I doubt there would be.

Status of Forces agreement = UCMJ = innocent until proven guilty.
Afghan soldier = Sharia Law = nothing.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by SGTSECRET

 

No actually its not. In the US we have mens rea...

A persons mental status can play a factor as to what a person is charged with or if the person is even mentally competent enough to stand trial.

The guy possibly violated the UCMJ, not Sharia law. As far as the Taliban and the situation they dont want justice - they want revenge. He would not get a fair trial, at all, provided there was one, which I doubt there would be.

Status of Forces agreement = UCMJ = innocent until proven guilty.
Afghan soldier = Sharia Law = nothing.

Pretty sure going house to house killing women and children is against any law, sharia or otherwise. I really don't see how anyone could want this guy brought back to the U.S. just to get a slap on the wrist and a bunch of meds. He killed Afghan families...not yours or anyone you knew, so I guess that's why you don't care if he gets away with murder.

Lets say an Egyptian citizen does the same thing here in the states, do we send him back to possibly be let loose in his own country? I really don't know the answer but I don't think it happens...

Source OP?

I highly doubt it.

There would be no better way to separate his boss, Obama, from his constituency. Dems are pretty anti-death penalty.

Plus, there is no way the military brass would allow it to happen. The dude served multiple tours of duty in a decade of endless war based on lies.

He snapped. That's if you believe he is not MK Ultra or some other such, conditioned to do it to push some agenda. I mean really, how did he get off base? And no motive...

I disagree with Panetta. He should have said "if they want him let them invade us spend ten years trying to find him, like we had to for Bin Laden."

Yeah, killing civilians sucks, he's a sorry sucker for doing that on purpose. But none of us who have been on the front lines(wherever that is) haven't thought about whacking some civilians before. Getting shot at on a daily basis from god knows where and having lots of restrictions put on you in how you can shoot back grinds on your psyche in a strange way. This dude just got to the point where he felt that in order ot get his point across he needed to kill a few Afghans. It sucks that he did it but if I hear one more American politician or military official apologize to the Muslim world, or speak about our "partnership" with the Muslim world in the fight against extremism. What a load of malarky. Remember, our "partners" turned their weapons on us because we accidentally burned a book. That's how you dispose of garbage on a FOB(forward operating base) or COP(combat outpost) by the way, there is no dump and we're not Muslim scholars, we're soldiers.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I say, get him home and check him out in the U.S...but home is where he needs to face whatever justice may be coming.

Absolutely bollocks.

If this was an Afghani committing a similair crime in the USA I can guarantee that you, along with the vast majority of US citizens, would demand that he be tried and punished in the USA.
What is so different about this?

He committed the crime in Afghanistan which is where he should be tried and if found guilty punished in accordance with Afghani law.

Should hand him over to the Afghans.

2nd line.

reply to post by Freeborn
[more

I understand your thinking but that's not how it works in the military. He's not subject to Afghan laws and punishments, he is subject to UCMJ, uniform code of military justice.

He should be standing for his crimes in whatever justice system is there. We try criminals here, when they commit crimes here, why should he be any different. It should not be under military court ruling, as he was supposedly drunk and off duty when he commited the crimes. He was acting as a civilian, let him be tried as one.

reply to post by hammanderr


But that's how it SHOULD work!

And who says it doesn't work like that in the US military, the US?
Just who are they to dictate who can or can't be prosecuted in Afghanistan?

I can 100% guarantee that if it was an Afghani soldier who'd done similar in the US he would be tried in the US.

Originally posted by Hillarie
I have read that Leon Panetta is calling for the execution of the soldier who shot up the village in Afghanistan. I am completely enraged by this. This soldier apparently had already done two tours in Iraq and had suffered a brain injury during one of them. This policy they have now of redeploying these guys on multiple tours is inhuman and brutal to my thinking. In WW2 and Vietnam they went once and came home. Now they have to keep going back over and over again. Apparently the people in charge care nothing for their mental health or the effect it has on a person to be thrown right back into a traumatizing situation with hardly a chance to recover. And now they want to KILL this guy? For what? To appease the Afghans? I'm sorry they got murdered, but truthfully I'm more sorry for our guys and what our inhuman leaders are doing to them. It's just so unfair to call for execution for this guy. It just seems he's getting thrown under the bus for the crime of being driven mad by the way he's been treated. What do you think?

Agreed....and I LOATHE the military and warfare in general.

Handing out the death penalty to a guy who no doubt has PTSD (or call it "shell shock", "battle fatigue" whatever) AND had a traumatic head injury is no different than Texas sentencing 17 yr old developmentally disable to kids to die.

It's barbaric and inhuman.

Not that I don't understand the Afghans point of view...what the hell are we doing there again? I thought we already got Bin Laden awhile ago? However...that seems more a reason bring a trial against a politician or two with a possibility of the death penalty rather than a soldier. Oh wait...my bad. I forgot...we don't do trials anymore here, do we?

Just some thought-provoking points:

1. Why not sentence to death the one who launche a cruise missile that hit innocent targets?
2. Why not sentence to death the gunner of the airship that killed journalists carrying cameras?
3. Why not sentence to death the bomber pilot who dropped bombs and hit innocent civilians?
4. Why not sentence to death the soldiers who used DU in Fallujah and caused numerous deaths to the civilians?

If you answer that all those were acting under orders, then why not sentence to death the one who gave the order?

People, it's a war. When you think of it, the entire war is ugly, disgusting, and immoral. Any war is immoral. There is no black and white, there is no line to cross where it makes it OK or not.

Just about everyone involved in war can be prosecuted and sentenced to death.

Originally posted by hammanderr
I disagree with Panetta. He should have said "if they want him let them invade us spend ten years trying to find him, like we had to for Bin Laden."

Yeah, killing civilians sucks, he's a sorry sucker for doing that on purpose. But none of us who have been on the front lines(wherever that is) haven't thought about whacking some civilians before. Getting shot at on a daily basis from god knows where and having lots of restrictions put on you in how you can shoot back grinds on your psyche in a strange way. This dude just got to the point where he felt that in order ot get his point across he needed to kill a few Afghans. It sucks that he did it but if I hear one more American politician or military official apologize to the Muslim world, or speak about our "partnership" with the Muslim world in the fight against extremism. What a load of malarky. Remember, our "partners" turned their weapons on us because we accidentally burned a book. That's how you dispose of garbage on a FOB(forward operating base) or COP(combat outpost) by the way, there is no dump and we're not Muslim scholars, we're soldiers.

It's not about burning a book. Not really. It's about Bin Laden being wiped out quite some time ago and the US lingering so that we have a convenient place to stage an attack against Iran. They want foreign militaries OUT of their damn country....just like we would.

That's why it's always best to just never, ever, ever, invade another country....or if you do...do it Gulf War #1 style for about 100 hours and get the hell OUT.

Screw all this "take care of him he may be fritzing" CRAP.

This is a man who apparently has a wife and 2 children of his own, yet shot mens wives, and children in cold blood. To add a heaping pile of # to injury, he SET THEM ON FIRE!!!

GIVE HIM TO THE VILLAGERS!!!!!!!

Stop defending this crap people!!

Originally posted by gandalph
Just some thought-provoking points:

1. Why not sentence to death the one who launche a cruise missile that hit innocent targets?
2. Why not sentence to death the gunner of the airship that killed journalists carrying cameras?
3. Why not sentence to death the bomber pilot who dropped bombs and hit innocent civilians?
4. Why not sentence to death the soldiers who used DU in Fallujah and caused numerous deaths to the civilians?

If you answer that all those were acting under orders, then why not sentence to death the one who gave the order?

People, it's a war. When you think of it, the entire war is ugly, disgusting, and immoral. Any war is immoral. There is no black and white, there is no line to cross where it makes it OK or not.

Just about everyone involved in war can be prosecuted and sentenced to death.

Ummm, yeah and I'm all for all of them standing trial and being prosecuted according to due process...

What he did had nothing to do with WAR. This was a village with little to no military presence. Killing kids IS black and white. Setting a pile of bodies on fire IS black and white. Pissing on dead bodies IS black and white. Trophy killing IS black and white..

Originally posted by milominderbinder

Originally posted by Hillarie
I have read that Leon Panetta is calling for the execution of the soldier who shot up the village in Afghanistan. I am completely enraged by this. This soldier apparently had already done two tours in Iraq and had suffered a brain injury during one of them. This policy they have now of redeploying these guys on multiple tours is inhuman and brutal to my thinking. In WW2 and Vietnam they went once and came home. Now they have to keep going back over and over again. Apparently the people in charge care nothing for their mental health or the effect it has on a person to be thrown right back into a traumatizing situation with hardly a chance to recover. And now they want to KILL this guy? For what? To appease the Afghans? I'm sorry they got murdered, but truthfully I'm more sorry for our guys and what our inhuman leaders are doing to them. It's just so unfair to call for execution for this guy. It just seems he's getting thrown under the bus for the crime of being driven mad by the way he's been treated. What do you think?

Agreed....and I LOATHE the military and warfare in general.

Handing out the death penalty to a guy who no doubt has PTSD (or call it "shell shock", "battle fatigue" whatever) AND had a traumatic head injury is no different than Texas sentencing 17 yr old developmentally disable to kids to die.

It's barbaric and inhuman.

Not that I don't understand the Afghans point of view...what the hell are we doing there again? I thought we already got Bin Laden awhile ago? However...that seems more a reason bring a trial against a politician or two with a possibility of the death penalty rather than a soldier. Oh wait...my bad. I forgot...we don't do trials anymore here, do we?

So the 16 dead innocent civilians who died thinking they were safe in their homes as a family get NO justice.... Are you serious right now?

It trips me out that you have the NERVE to talk about barbaric and inhuman. Nobody is calling for somebody to run up on him in his sleep, drag him out of bed, kill him, and set him on fire.. I think the death penalty would be VERY human.....