Ancient Nuclear Wars and Past Civilisations

as to the possibility that Ancients knew things that we do not

I will put forward just 2 examples that are documented

Greek Fire

and

Baghdad Battery

Both of these are real, but we still have no Idea what they were (in the case of Greek Fire) or what they were used for.

Granted there IS speculation, but these items are not even from "the distant past".

So just from these example, it is "possible" even if curent thought says it's not "probable"

the Oklo reactors are said to be a natural occurrence, but, what if?

Originally posted by thedigirati
as to the possibility that Ancients knew things that we do not

I will put forward just 2 examples that are documented

Greek Fire

and

Baghdad Battery

Both of these are real, but we still have no Idea what they were (in the case of Greek Fire) or what they were used for.

The fact that we don't know the exact recipe for Greek fire is meaningless. Whatever they used, we can be sure it wasn't napalm.

What's referred to as the "Baghdad battery" is not known to be a battery at all and resembles scroll containers from the period.

In fact, the state the artifact was found in would have prevented it from being used as a wet cell battery, since the entire top was puposefully sealed over with bitumen, just like scroll jars often are.

Originally posted by thedigiratithe Oklo reactors are said to be a natural occurrence, but, what if?

Of course it's natural. There's nothing there to indicate any intelligent intervention in the uranium ores there that are found lying in their natural state, underground.

Such natural reactors were predicted to exist by science in the 1950's. Long before one was ever found.

What you said above is precisely the same thing as:
"Mount Everest is said to be a natural occurence, but, what if?"

"What if?"

"What if" what?

What if Mount Everest is the Devil's Sandpile?

Harte

Originally posted by R0CR13
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Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by owtFsink

 

If there had been a massive nuclear war this would show in the sediment and ice coring from around the world and the Arctic and Antarctic it would also show up in deviations in the fossil pollen counts, etc

Says you the arbiter of all that is true .. but you are ignoring the evidence again .

"from the ancient Mahabharata: …a single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe. An incandescent column of smoke and flame As bright as the thousand suns Rose in all its splendour… a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds… …the cloud of smoke rising after its first explosion formed into expanding round circles like the opening of giant parasols… ..it was an unknown weapon, an iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death, which reduced to ashes The entire race of the Vrishnis and the Andhakas. …The corpses were so burned as to be unrecognizable. The hair and nails fell out; Pottery broke without apparent cause, And the birds turned white. After a few hours All foodstuffs were infected… …to escape from this fire, the soldiers threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their equipment. "

I'll go with the documentation ...

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It Is Not A Direct Quote is is a collection of REFERENCES to the original texts .

Go argue with the Hindu Experts that i'm sure would dispute your statements .


Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. "The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees," says Ganguli.

"Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people's hair falling out."
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You also have a problem here with Flying craft ...

scienceinvedas.wordpress.com...

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Originally posted by R0CR13
It Is Not A Direct Quote is is a collection of REFERENCES to the original texts .

Go argue with the Hindu Experts that i'm sure would dispute your statements .


Historian Kisari Mohan Ganguli says that Indian sacred writings are full of such descriptions, which sound like an atomic blast as experienced in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. He says references mention fighting sky chariots and final weapons. An ancient battle is described in the Drona Parva, a section of the Mahabharata. "The passage tells of combat where explosions of final weapons decimate entire armies, causing crowds of warriors with steeds and elephants and weapons to be carried away as if they were dry leaves of trees," says Ganguli.

"Instead of mushroom clouds, the writer describes a perpendicular explosion with its billowing smoke clouds as consecutive openings of giant parasols. There are comments about the contamination of food and people's hair falling out."
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Looks like you clicked the wrong "reply" button or something.

Ganguli never said anything remotely like that, and he was no historian,.

He was the translator of the Mahabharata. Specifically he translated this edition, which is the only one I know of that's in the public domain right now.
Ganguli died long before atomic weaponry was even guessed at so we can be sure he never referred to it.

The quote you provided (sans the quote function and without a link, I might add) originated on Rense and they referenced it to the "World Island Review" magazine, a publication that has left no evidence whatsoever of its existence anywhere I've looked.

And I've looked, rest assured.

"Archaeologist Francis Taylor," also quoted in that article, never existed either.

Again, I've looked. But don't trust me. Find evidence of his existence and I'll eat my words.

Speaking of doing your own research, I linked you to Ganguli's translation. Try and find your quote about the " single projectile charged with all the power of the Universe" in there.

Or, you could just search on it here and find the post from years ago where a poster (I forget who it was now, but I'm still grateful to him) did just that and found the various somewhat similar phrases in the various parts of the book that I mentioned earlier.

Rats ate the fingernails of the dead is what it says, not that the fingernails fell out. Food was contaminated by worms and bugs it says, not by fallout. Pots cracked is actually in there. Back then, I can imagine that a pot getting cracked was somewhat of a bigger problem that it would be today.

Harte

Originally posted by R0CR13
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You also have a problem here with Flying craft ...

scienceinvedas.wordpress.com...

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No more than the problem I have with Icarus and the beeswax that kept his manufactured wings on. Until he flew too close to the Sun, that is.

The "ancient" Vedic text referred to in your linked article was written in the Twentieth Century, after the invention of manned flight. Supposedly, it was what we today would call "channelled."

Harte

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You want another source OK

en.wikipedia.org...

"Strong and durable must the body of the Vimana be made, like a great flying bird of light material. Inside one must put the mercury engine with its iron heating apparatus underneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky. The movements of the Vimana are such that it can vertically ascend, vertically descend, move slanting forwards and backwards. With the help of the machines human beings can fly in the air and heavenly beings can come down to earth."

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THE VEDIC ION ENGINE

aryaculture.tripod.com...

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Originally posted by R0CR13
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You want another source OK

en.wikipedia.org...

"Strong and durable must the body of the Vimana be made, like a great flying bird of light material. Inside one must put the mercury engine with its iron heating apparatus underneath. By means of the power latent in the mercury which sets the driving whirlwind in motion, a man sitting inside may travel a great distance in the sky. The movements of the Vimana are such that it can vertically ascend, vertically descend, move slanting forwards and backwards. With the help of the machines human beings can fly in the air and heavenly beings can come down to earth."

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Your cite is wrong and doesn't show the quote above

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The quote is attributed to Samarangana Sutradhara ..

articles referencing ..
www.peter-thomson.com...
www.atlantisquest.com...
mathomathis.blogspot.com...

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Originally posted by R0CR13
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The quote is attributed to Samarangana Sutradhara ..

articles referencing ..
www.peter-thomson.com...
www.atlantisquest.com...
mathomathis.blogspot.com...

Your first cite: doesn't have the quote

Ah the second did

oh wait the 'translation' is by no less than the famous (in his own mind)

Richard Cedric Leonard is an author and lecturer on the pseudohistorical belief in ancient astronauts and the mythical city of Atlantis.

Yes just the man for a good translation, lol

We'll try again

Provide a translation of the material from the original document by a noted scholar, not a fringe 'researcher'

Originally posted by Hanslune
Provide a translation of the material from the original document by a noted scholar, not a fringe 'researcher'

see...this is where you fail.

Just because an individual has a different perspective that goes against mainstream teachings they have been and probably always will be ostrasized by that mainstream community, funding cut short, access denied to proper research material, or worse...

you should stop standing on the shoulders of others purely becasue they are "popular" and start thinking for yourself instead of trying to do it for others.

Originally posted by Harte
What's referred to as the "Baghdad battery" is not known to be a battery at all and resembles scroll containers from the period.

In fact, the state the artifact was found in would have prevented it from being used as a wet cell battery, since the entire top was puposefully sealed over with bitumen, just like scroll jars often are.

ummmm, yeah...the state it was found in is what...a few centuries of decay and aging from its last use?
lets suppose for a second that in as many years from now someone finds an old AA or even a car battery, and that there is no sufficient documentation to describe its exact function, do you think it would work as intended after that long?

here is some intersting information you should consider.
Baghdad Battery Wiki

The artifacts consist of terracotta pots approximately 130 mm tall containing a copper cylinder made of a rolled-up copper sheet, which houses a single iron or rod. At the top, the iron rod is isolated from the copper by bitumen plugs or stoppers, and both rod and cylinder fit snugly inside the opening of the jar, which bulges outward toward the middle.

...copper and iron scrolls?

or more in regards to conventional functionality
MythBusters Wiki

The Build Team created several copies of the Baghdad Battery, an archaeological find which seems to suggest that ancient Babylonians were the first to use batteries.

tried to add the mythbustres video but i cant figure it out and i dont really care either, im sure you can find if you search....

Originally posted by owtFsink

Originally posted by Hanslune
Provide a translation of the material from the original document by a noted scholar, not a fringe 'researcher'

see...this is where you fail.

Just because an individual has a different perspective that goes against mainstream teachings they have been and probably always will be ostrasized by that mainstream community, funding cut short, access denied to proper research material, or worse...

you should stop standing on the shoulders of others purely becasue they are "popular" and start thinking for yourself instead of trying to do it for others.

Translation. I cannot do that - that would be work and in the end I would fail. You appear to be substituting 'orthodoxy' for fringe and insisting that fringe must be right. Please note the Dr Schoch a noted 'alternative' doesn't suffer from what you claim happens to people with different perspectives -- please explain?

...copper and iron scrolls?

Copper was used a medium of 'writing'

Link to a fairly famous copper scroll


The problem is a very weak battery doesn't equal the ability to make a nuclear weapon, even if such a battery was built, which is very uncertain and thousands of years after the alleged use of such bombs

Originally posted by Harte


"Archaeologist Francis Taylor," also quoted in that article, never existed either.

Again, I've looked. But don't trust me. Find evidence of his existence and I'll eat my words.

Oh hell. I agree with your posts as a whole, but I did find this: Francis Taylor

Now I'll wait for someone to twist your words and mine. Just because I found this doesn't mean I believe in ancient nuclear wars. I don't.

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Harte


"Archaeologist Francis Taylor," also quoted in that article, never existed either.

Again, I've looked. But don't trust me. Find evidence of his existence and I'll eat my words.

Oh hell. I agree with your posts as a whole, but I did find this: Francis Taylor

Now I'll wait for someone to twist your words and mine. Just because I found this doesn't mean I believe in ancient nuclear wars. I don't.

edit on 29-4-2012 by aorAki because: (no reason given)

Common name, wrong time period, Harte I believe meant that specific FT mentioned in the newspaper article and not FT through out history! lol

Originally posted by R0CR13
THE VEDIC ION ENGINE

aryaculture.tripod.com...

Your link states the following regarding your claim of an ion engine:

The great Rishi Bharadvaja has written a commentary on this in his book Yantra Vidya (Science of Machines). Bharadvaja elucidates the mechanism that provides the impulse needed for propulsion. It involves the combination of eight sub-assemblies and uses the interaction of principally Solar energy and Mercury

It's not the Yantra Vidya. That would translate as "Science of Knowledge," presumably a philosophical tract.

The text supposedly penned by Bharadvajah (one of several texts) that you're talking about is the Yantra Sarvasva, Or "Science of Machines."

As you can see below, this text is only known through it being mentioned in other texts. It has never been seen.

MAHARSHI BHARADWAAJA'S
VYMAANIKA-SHAASTRA
OR
SCIENCE OF AERONAUTICS
Part of his unknown work
"YANTRA SARVASVA"
or
"ALL ABOUT MACHINES"
as revealed to venerable
Pandit SUBBARAYA SASTRY
and recorded in hand-written Sanskrit Manuscript Form
translated into English by
G. R. JOSYER, M.A., Hons., F.R.E.S., M.R.S.L.

Source: The V.S.

That's the frontispiece/cover page for the Vimanyka Shastra, the channelled book I mentioned.

Note that you have referenced the Vimanyka Shastra in an attempt to validate the Vimanyka Shastra.
It don't work like that.

Harte

Originally posted by owtFsink

Originally posted by Harte
What's referred to as the "Baghdad battery" is not known to be a battery at all and resembles scroll containers from the period.

In fact, the state the artifact was found in would have prevented it from being used as a wet cell battery, since the entire top was puposefully sealed over with bitumen, just like scroll jars often are.

ummmm, yeah...the state it was found in is what...a few centuries of decay and aging from its last use?
lets suppose for a second that in as many years from now someone finds an old AA or even a car battery, and that there is no sufficient documentation to describe its exact function, do you think it would work as intended after that long?

So you've decided to ignore the established fact that the top was sealed over with bitumen, insulating the dissimilar metals and completely ruling out the possibility of electrical generation?

Nice worldview. It turns into whatever reality you care to choose at any moment.
I prefer reality, myself.

Harte

Originally posted by aorAki

Originally posted by Harte


"Archaeologist Francis Taylor," also quoted in that article, never existed either.

Again, I've looked. But don't trust me. Find evidence of his existence and I'll eat my words.

Oh hell. I agree with your posts as a whole, but I did find this: Francis Taylor

Now I'll wait for someone to twist your words and mine. Just because I found this doesn't mean I believe in ancient nuclear wars. I don't.

Emailed him 4 years ago. But congratulations for finding him (figured somebody would.)

His email is still listed on that group's website AFAIK.

He's a local involved with local archaeological sites and not an archaeologist himself. He is not the "Archaeologist Francis Taylor" in the Rense article.

You know, there's some pretty old stuff in England. His group tries to preserve and promote that stuff.

There was another Francis Taylor that was a museum curator. He turned out to be an art specialist and not an Archaeologist.

Did you find him as well?

Harte

The ancient Hebrews had something that proved amazingly lethal to their enemies when in battle (the Ark of the Covenant comes to mind) so personally I would not rule out their use of some type of nuclear device.

Originally posted by Harte
So you've decided to ignore the established fact that the top was sealed over with bitumen, insulating the dissimilar metals and completely ruling out the possibility of electrical generation?

Nice worldview. It turns into whatever reality you care to choose at any moment.
I prefer reality, myself.

Harte

No i didnt ignore it, it was in both the links i provided, what you ignored was the fact that it was documented that there was an iron post protruding from the bitumen (which was commonly uses to create a seal on such jars), similar to what you find on todays car batteries.
It was also shown that such jars with the copper sheeting wrapped around the iron (galvanized) posts created an electrical charge....enough for electroplating as well other applications

read the links, then tear them apart...