Harry Potter is the devil (not really)

Originally posted by PulsusMeusGallo

Originally posted by HappyBunny

Originally posted by PulsusMeusGallo

Originally posted by HappyBunny

Rowling is not writing a Christian book, not even close. ....

Rowling On Christianity and Harry Potter

And yet, she includes a pagan quotation as she admits in the article. I don't see how you can then make the claim it is exclusively Christian.

I never said HP didn't have religious themes--just not exclusively Christian ones.

edit on 3/20/2012 by HappyBunny because: (no reason given)

Rowling says what she says, whatever you want to believe from her is your choice. I believe only that which I can corroborate. In short, she's a very competent liar.

Potter is too complex to be only about any one thing though.

As to that, not even Tolkien realized the things he put into Lord of the Rings until much, much later.

Rowling herself said the series was about death, how we deal with it, and how we come to accept it. That is universal to all faiths, as is love. Christians don't have a corner on the market.

I see just as many pagan as I do Christian, but you are of course free to see it through any lens you want.

reply to post by HappyBunny

In HP the Jews are represented by all Muggles--the inferior bloodline that Voldemort wanted to get rid of. Like Hitler was part Jewish, Voldemort himself was a half-blood.

muggles, and muggle-borns aren't an inferior bloodline, but some wizards view them as such. the hitler analogy to voldemort has been made many times and it's true, but jews aren't inferior as a race, and neither are muggles in the book.

Rowling is not writing a Christian book, not even close. She is exploring death--that's what the whole series is about.

rowling has already confirmed it is a christian book, and many of the events are allegories to christianity.

Harry is not Christ. Not even close. He might be a Christ-figure or Christ-like, as is Snape, but he is NOT Christ.

i agree. i never said harry was christ, but that his character is more like "christian" in pilgrims progress. someone on a journey.

Rowling is taking the agnostic view--she doesn't know if there's a heaven or a hell. This is blatantly obvious by the King's Cross scene in Deathly Hallows. Harry sees the train and Dumbledore gives him the choice to go on or not, but we never see what lies beyond. Rowling is saying she doesn't know.

this is incorrect. firstly, christ said heaven will be beyond anything we can imagine, so obviously rowling couldn't describe it, but the heaven/hell bit comes in with voldemort's soul. harry's soul is pure and he is whole in the next life, but voldemort's soul is broken and mutilated. both harry AND voldemort were present in king's cross station, this is evident after harry wakes up because voldemort had collapsed also, and woke exactly when harry did.

Harry didn't die. That's been a huge debate since the last book came out, but it seems obvious to me that he didn't.

no, harry didn't die, but he could have gotten on the train and gone. harry believed he would die, and he willingly made the sacrafice, as his mother sacraficed for him. these are allegories to christ's sacrifice to us, but this does not mean harry IS a christ figure.

reply to post by HappyBunny

The pope may have condemned the Harry Potter books, but J K Rowling has now revealed that Christianity has been one of her major inspirations.

Speaking in America this week, she was open about the Christian allegories in her latest book Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows.

"To me, the religious parallels have always been obvious," Rowling said. "But I never wanted to talk too openly about it because I thought it might show people who just wanted the story where we were going." At the end of her latest and final installment in the series, there are specific references to Christianity and themes of life after death and resurrection. At one point Harry visits his parents' graves and finds two biblical passages inscribed on their tombstones.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

rowling said herself that christianity inspired the books.

Originally posted by HappyBunny

I see just as many pagan as I do Christian, but you are of course free to see it through any lens you want.

As are you but the difference is you adamantly, consistently and unreasonably refuse to accept the Author's own purposefully crafted Christian agenda.

IOW, your making sheet up. You're stating points of illucidity over and over again in hopes they will be accepted as fact. Ain't happening.

That's called fanfic and I have nothing against it as long as it is identified for what it is.

Originally posted by HappyBunny

I really hope by using literary alchemy you didn't come to the misguided conclusion that Harry would end up with Hermione, did you? I can't tell you how many arguments I had with people over that. They showed zero understanding of alchemy by doing that--they just wanted Harry and Hermione to end up together--kind of like people wanted Luke and Leia to end up together. Because using alchemy it was obvious from Book 2 that he was going to end up with Ginny and Hermione with Ron. Not to mention the big anvil-sized hints in the text gave it away.

Originally posted by PulsusMeusGallo

Anvil sized hints or not (Longbottom-Lovegood?

), Rowling never fully committed to R-H until Deathly Hallows.

Originally posted by HappyBunny

Come on now, it was obvious in Chamber of Secrets what was going to happen.

There are two answers to this.

1) A direct quote from the Victor Dix Letters "Jo had for all practical purposes lost her way, her vision and her will to push on. she no longer believed her own myth. The train ride that never happened....finally came home to roost".

Translation: JKR's epiphical mythology, which Warner and the book publishers eagerly moved forward, was that (Rowling's words) "Harry came to me on a train ride...all of it, I could see the entire thing unfolding in my mind".

Lie. Not only did she only have thoughts of about where the post CoS was to go, she was past the point of a nervous breakdown halfway through GoF. She admits to rewriting parts of Goblet Of Fire dozens of times, full rewrites. She was Dazed and Confused (apologies to Robert Plant).

Which is why it took her three years from GoF July 2000 to Order Of The Phoenix July 2003 and Warner was frantic. Warner and Potter Scholars often call this the Black Hole.

2) Rowling with Warner in the lead refused to disallow any plot twists. Harry-Hermione were never off the charts until DHs.There were no dead ends in the book in terms of romance, Warner refused it. Keep in mind, Emma Watson was seriously balking at returning to the series after GoF. If she comes back, all options are open. If not...

No matter what you might read, the Septology was never, ever cast in stone...until the DHs manuscript was agreed by Warner and Rowling...and released to the publishers.

Me

shipping has nothing to do with lit alchemy which you are confusing with the alchemy of the Philosopher's Stone.

Originally posted by HappyBunny

No, I'm not confusing it at all--but a lot of people did, and they tried to use literary alchemy to prove it. And they were wrong, wrong, wrong anyway.

What's your definition of Lit Alchem in HP?

reply to post by AlchemicalBinoculars


According to Hans Andréa...

"The aim of Harry Potter is to show how death can be vanquished; how an ordinary mortal human being can enter a process of transmutation and transfiguration that will alchemically transform him or her into an eternal, perfect child of God, filled with overwhelming compassion for suffering humanity.

All the characters are symbols or personifications of aspects of the process, symbolically called, "making the Philosopher's Stone". With this stone the alchemist can make gold, i.e. the Gold of the Spirit, and the Elixir of Life, i.e. eternal life... the most popular book ever published tells the most beautiful story ever told: the return home of the Prodigal Son to the arms of the Father."

Blog

Andréa bases his work on the Letters of Victor Dix, the well reported Christian agenda of J. K. Rowling and the similarities of the [liturgical, liberating alchemical] structuring of the Harry Potter Septology to The Alchemical Wedding of Christian Rosycross.

My personal favorite is the Veil In the Dep't Of Mysteries and the Gate Of Saturn.



There are play on words...

Neville longbottom
Medulla oblongata

In traditional alchemy these planes are referred to as the seven elements:

- earth
- air
- water
- fire
- quintessence
- soul
- spirit.

The seven books of Harry Potter correspond to those planes and elements in that order. This is revealed not only by the story itself, but also by the titles:

Philosopher’s (Sorcerer's) Stone = earth
Chamber of Secrets = air (a chamber is filled with air)
Prisoner of Azkaban (Island) = water
Goblet of Fire = fire
Order of the Phoenix = quintessence (meaning fifth essence, of which the phoenix is the traditional symbol, rising up from the fire, the previous element)
Half–Blood Prince = soul (the soul is traditionally identified with the blood)
Deathly Hallows = spirit (Hallows = Holy = the Spirit of God)

...and many, many other similarities which make for extremely compelling arguments.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

rowling said herself that christianity inspired the books.

The basic story is this: A prophecy is made that a baby who will change the world will be born. A star appears at his birth. When the king of this world hears about the birth he tries to have the baby killed, but fails.

The child performs miracles at a young age. But as he grows older he knows he will have to meet his arch–enemy: Satan.

Our hero prepares to sacrifice himself for the world, and surrenders himself, undefended, to face certain death. He is killed, and goes into an underworld, where he can choose to ‘go on’ or come back. He comes back victorious, as a Master of Death, i.e. eternal life, to liberate the world of evil.

Does that sound familiar? Yes, that’s the story of Jesus, but also that of Harry Potter.

That stuff that´s happening in the video in the OP is just so incredibly WRONG!
And yes, that IS abuse! Of the worst kind! Bunch of hypocrites mindwashing little children!
Seriously, these people should be burned at the stake.
Ok, rant over...


www.paganlibrary.com...

reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

you still haven't explained how her "hidden agenda" is bad. yes, the books are based on christian principles, so what?

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz

you still haven't explained how her "hidden agenda" is bad.

Why should I? I never said it was "bad", you did. Which is why I previously ignored you.

yes, the books are based on christian principles, so what?

So what what?

Originally posted by PulsusMeusGallo

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
reply to post by PulsusMeusGallo

 

i wouldn't say that she put in a "hidden christian agenda", as that suggests that there is something dishonest and nefarious regarding the way she went about doing it.

That would be your interpretation, it certainly is not mine. Rowling had no other choice but to keep her Christian intentions on the down low as Dix points out in the links I presented regarding Warner Brothers and their influence on Rowling...which can be extrapolated that Victor Dix provided the "muscle" for that intervention.

the above reply to my post suggests that my interpretation of her "hidden christian agenda" as being a good thing is rejected by you when you said "it certainly is not mine".

reply to post by Bob Sholtz


i wnet back and re-read all your posts and i was so impressed i had to send you a U2U. Pick it up, my friend-scholar.

I saw the Letters from Victor Dix but I did not read them pur se. Wish I had now. There was a pdf file of them floating around the internet too. I have it or used to have it. There were dozens of pages, a long read.

2Eggz

Originally posted by TwoEggz
I saw the Letters from Victor Dix but I did not read them pur se. Wish I had now. There was a pdf file of them floating around the internet too. I have it or used to have it. There were dozens of pages, a long read.

2Eggz

The PDF file was disinformation, total propoganda most prolly done by Warner. had nothing to do with the real Victor Dix. I have it. It's #e to be blunt. Warner is scum they prolly put a bullet thru Dix' head and dunked him somewhere. Scum. They chopped the books up into teen angst films. Dix exposed the scum, exposed the Rowling scam and mental illness and drug habits, exposed the coverups of Radcliff'e's drunken, drugged out behavior, of Grint's complete stoopidity. Dix got Warner unhooked from Emma Watson who they duped into a studio contract as soon as she turned age. Ask Warner about the payoff to the poor crippled stunt guy who can't walk or hardly talk after they screwed up the set and blew the guy up. Dix said they
threatened the family if they did any interviews.

"Stunt-Runt" Silenced

Warner is scum.

Originally posted by AlchemicalBinoculars

The PDF file was disinformation, total propoganda most prolly done by Warner. had nothing to do with the real Victor Dix. I have it. It's #e to be blunt. Warner is scum they prolly put a bullet thru Dix' head and dunked him somewhere. Scum. They chopped the books up into teen angst films.

The movies in all fairness were adaptions not documentaries. Scum done or not.

Dix exposed the scum, exposed the Rowling scam and mental illness and drug habits, exposed the coverups of Radcliff'e's drunken, drugged out behavior, of Grint's complete stoopidity. Dix got Warner unhooked from Emma Watson who they duped into a studio contract as soon as she turned age.

This was good work and of Jo Rowling had not been such a bold-faced liar, playing the Warner Brothers PR game to the hilt, I would have thought that her personal troubles should have remained personal.

As far as Radcliffe, I am convinced to this day that he was forced to reveal a small part (alcoholism) of his personal issues because of Victor Dix Letters. DanRad waited until the Potter series was over and, imo, Warner forced him to confront at least this part of his on screen behavior. Yes, on screen as in "drunk on screen" at age 16.

I must duly note that Radcliffe has cagily sidestepped his bisexuality, his OCD, his tobacco abuse (which started well before he was of age to purchase tobacco, around 14) all of this at Warner's lead.

Grint had to be constantly coached, he was unable to remember lines and cues and his book role as Ron Weasley was summarily moved to Emma Watson's Hermione Granger.

True too about Watson yet she is still hung with at least one movie with David Yates recently announced.

Emma's New Movie - A Payoff

Ask Warner about the payoff to the poor crippled stunt guy who can't walk or hardly talk after they screwed up the set and blew the guy up. Dix said they threatened the family if they did any interviews.

"Stunt-Runt" Silenced

Warner is scum.

Six months David Holmes, now a quadriplegic, spent in the hospital and Warner demanded that after an initial visit by Radcliffe and Tom Felton there be no more visits permanently by anyone associated with the movies.

Yeah its a Warner Scumbrothers film and they want George Clowney and Tom Hanks for the lead. Two of Hocuswood's biggest frontliners for carrying the disinfo scam.

reply to post by AlchemicalBinoculars


When I was a member of Mugglenet, the Victor Dix letters came up in a couple of threads which disappeared. They were attacked by a poster called "Red Hen" and he/she was later banned from Mugglenet. I emailed into Mugglecast and they put the question as to the who and what of the Victor Dix letters on a podacast------>which was later altered. The whole thing is super-strange.

Originally posted by TwoEggz
reply to post by AlchemicalBinoculars

 

When I was a member of Mugglenet, the Victor Dix letters came up in a couple of threads which disappeared. They were attacked by a poster called "Red Hen" and he/she was later banned from Mugglenet. I emailed into Mugglecast and they put the question as to the who and what of the Victor Dix letters on a podacast------>which was later altered. The whole thing is super-strange.

I posted about this earlier and well remember the thread and the quick response, when it went viral on MuggleNet, as owner Emerson Sparz personally shut it down and then completely remove it. I called to talk to him about this action, not to dissuade him, but to see if I could get inside his head. We talked at length, I was surprised.

But he was young and did not understand the overall consequences of the thread, the Dix Letters and the reason the Warner Bros folks who monitor MuggleNet wanted it squelched. They barked, he went into action.

Re: Red Hen, this is Joyce Odell, Joyce is a bit of a nutcase, wrote the longest most contrived fan fictions and HP book reviews known to Potterverse.

Crazy Red Hen Blog

Odell is positioned between mentally disturbed intellectually gifted with a huge dose of Never Wrong cemented by the Reality of Her Enormous Ego.

Enter Joyce "Red Hen" Odell. Sane?