Time to ban the Burqa?

reply to post by Morgenstern89


You are over psycho-analyzing. If you really want to know why certain cultures wear the burqa, research the sociological and anthropological history.

I recommend that you stay away from the post 9/11 garbage and the hate peddled by religious bigots.

"You are over psycho-analyzing. If you really want to know why certain cultures wear the burqa, research the sociological and anthropological history. "

Enlighten me.

"I recommend that you stay away from the post 9/11 garbage and the hate peddled by religious bigots."

Not sure if you have read my other posts in here, but as I've said, I have no issue with anyone else's religion. I'm no fan of all the post 9/11 fear mongering either, but surely you must understand that the criticisms of the culture can't all stem from hate, ignorance, or bigoted religious views.

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by SprocketUK

 

You know when bad things happen to us, we look for ways to prevent them from happening again. Bad things happen when people hide their identity. Granite not every time some one hides their identity they are being bad. Its not about taking peoples freedoms away, although you may see it that way. Governments job is to come in and regulate and govern and control. Its right in the name. If I say the government should come in and do this, everybody freaks out and says "Oh no not more government". But see you've taken it out of context. I want more government here, but way less over there.

Oh, please. Not the old "Its for your own good" rubbish.
I'm not afraid of women in black and you shouldn't be either.
Your fear is a totally inappropriate basis to legislate on how people dress.

When I ride my bike I usually have a shemagh up over my nose, dark sunglasses and (a mandatory) crash helmet. By your logic I must be up to no good.

reply to post by andersensrm

Oh yeah, I love this argument. In my religion I have to sacrifice babies, so I can kill babies right? Otherwise your infringing on my religion. I can't take photos, or I believe my soul will be ripped out of my body. That is why I can't have a photo ID, or your infringing on my religion.

A ludicrous comment.

What you are describing is insanity and does not actually form an argument. Please tell me what religion requires the sacrifice of babies? This photo soul thing is what primitive tribes that had never seen a camera used to say.

Given that a lot of Western people say a lot of garbage about Muslims, can you please explain what your agenda is without the justifications?

Is it about genocide, or religious belief persecutions or part of the 'War on Terror' to demonisation?

reply to post by Morgenstern89

I'm no fan of all the post 9/11 fear mongering either, but surely you must understand that the criticisms of the culture can't all stem from hate, ignorance, or bigoted religious views.

But is about hate and the rest. No one criticizes another culture while their government is killing them out of good will.

For example during the Vietnam war if someone from the West, especially the US, came forward criticizing Vietnamese culture, it would be fair to accuse them of being a hate monger. It does not matter even if there is some justification because it is adding insult to injury.

On 9/11 when 3000 Americans died, it would have been unacceptable to hark on about American racism, drug taking and rapes, etc. as fundamental elements of American culture and use it as justifications for the 9/11 atrocity.

Criticizing another religion and culture of far off countries is an irrational preoccupation and it constitutes fighting talk. When the Afghan take their revenge on American soldiers who kill their people, please remember what you have written. You contributed to the conflict.

Yet more posts and none of them seek to look at the real issue but instead play pedant with what is or not covering your face and for how long its allowed.

I suppose its a fun word game for some of you but its zero to do with the matter at hand.

Here, I'll play a little just to 'fit in'.

Should we ban the burqa based on its clothing value ...NO

I personally think the burqa is a stupid bit of dress, its stupid because its dangerous at the very least, its stupid because covering yourself in a hot country with a head to toe fabric that is coloured to collect as much heat as possible IS stupid. Its stupid because a man enforces the wearing (remember, if the man asks for it she MUST wear it, there isn't really any choice).

Its stupid because its classed as sinister by nature, facial recognition and the brains relying on looking at a face are psychological processes we trust, to deny the face tells the brain there's something not right here. The last thing a healthy co-operative friendly contact person can do to destroy that is to cover their face completely...

FACT..

So for all those reasons and many more the burqa IS stupid....

Should it be banned for being stupid, some may say yes because of the danger element when in control of vehicles but most would say no because its a bit of cloth and if you want to wear it and alienate yourself from some sections of society that should be your choice.

But then you have to drop all this pedantic crap and move on to the issue at hand, why do people want the burqa banned.

Simply because of what it represents, a garb worn by a section of society who have no inclination to integrate with others, a section that hates the west, a section that hates the average person for not being a radical Muslim. Don't take my word on this, be your own 'Sherlock Holmes' and ask what these people believe in, ask if they want western lifestyles. You may get a few women who wear it by force who really want away from it, you will most likely find that many cannot answer you because they don't speak English, that in itself shows the fundamental commandment of this man made off shoot as to NOT to integrate, we must become them and not vice versa or at least share ideals.

You may also find some women who rattle on about how its THEIR choice and they love it but at the end of the day their words are useless because they DON'T have a choice 99.9% of the time, their husband IS their owner and he dictates what she does, end of.

The Burqa is a symbol of control, you don't think the husband makes her wear it because he likes her in black do you?

The burqa represents everything unhealthy about this off shoot of Islam, its wearers do not care for us really, they see us as dirt, their culture is all important to them but it cannot live along side another, the wish is to be like a locust and change the landscape with only fellow locusts remaining. If you think that's a mythical statement then watch the Saudi stations, listen to them, it won't be long before you get the full message.

Of course Radical apologists will cover their ears and rework their senses so what is said somehow becomes acceptable to them, if that's you then you are a fool and not as intelligent as you thought. When someone is telling you to your face what they want and the same message is repeated time after time by many many different people of authority you really should take your finger out of whatever orifice and BELIEVE them.

The Burqa represents everything we should fear as peaceful democratic people, it IS the opposite of that and that's why it should be shunned.

If you still think its just a bit of cloth and another social control item then good luck to you, when the radicals get to you they won't be writing on a blog, they will be changing your life for whatever is left of it.

I never said that, they have...A lot.....

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

You may also find some women who rattle on about how its THEIR choice and they love it but at the end of the day their words are useless because they DON'T have a choice 99.9% of the time, their husband IS their owner and he dictates what she does, end of.

I agree with everything you say apart from this. Where do you get your 99.9% figure from? Please provide a bona fide research link thanks. In fact I think you'll find that some women are dictated to, others think it is their choice but are conforming to subliminal pressure and others do freely make that choice. I even think in some instances it's less of a religious statement and more a political statement of separation. I wouldn't know the percentages however because I'm not a researcher and I haven't seen any studies. Clearly I'm not as well informed as you!
Freedom of choice or not and irrespective of any supposed terrorist threat, I think it is alien to our society and trying to communicate with someone enveloped in a sheet with a slit for the eyes is beyond ridiculous.

reply to post by ofhumandescent
yes the Indians dress sexy, but burqas are not supposed to be sexy (duh). it is fundamentally the opposite. but they could be wearing the sexy underneath, you never know. looking at the picture you posted of the indian ladies, most people are looking at it with lusty thoughts, appreciating the colors and the curves of her body. when looking at the burqa, most people appreciated nothing from the photo.... and that is the point. women who wear the burqa do not want to be stared at or lusted after because it makes them uncomfortable, as it should. as for driving, i think the niquab or burqa is not really appropriate for vision purposes. i would recommend getting the windows tinted and wearing regular hijab.

reply to post by Mclaneinc

there are radicals all over the world promoting all kinds of radical beliefs. you are radical, man. the burqa vs. hijab is another discussion in itself, but as for women covering themselves- let them. they have every right to. there are plenty of muslim women who do not cover themselves, but you can't really tell who they are just by looking, now can you?
I am not saying there aren't radical muslims. but the ones wearing burqas are mothers, grandmothers, sisters, daughters. now take a look at the women around the rest of the world, especially western countries. you have to close your eyes if you want to walk down the street and not see something inappropriate in a religious sense. these women are god--fearing people. let them have that. that makes them no different from the amish (actually pretty similar imo), the orthodox of any religion. i have no qualms with someone who believes they need to cover themselves in order not to be taken advantage of in today's society. but of course
THERES ALWAYS A FEW WHO WILL RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

Originally posted by Mclaneinc
Yet more posts and none of them seek to look at the real issue but instead play pedant with what is or not covering your face and for how long its allowed.

I suppose its a fun word game for some of you but its zero to do with the matter at hand.

Here, I'll play a little just to 'fit in'.

Should we ban the burqa based on its clothing value ...NO

I personally think the burqa is a stupid bit of dress, its stupid because its dangerous at the very least, its stupid because covering yourself in a hot country with a head to toe fabric that is coloured to collect as much heat as possible IS stupid. Its stupid because a man enforces the wearing (remember, if the man asks for it she MUST wear it, there isn't really any choice).

Its stupid because its classed as sinister by nature, facial recognition and the brains relying on looking at a face are psychological processes we trust, to deny the face tells the brain there's something not right here. The last thing a healthy co-operative friendly contact person can do to destroy that is to cover their face completely...

FACT..

So for all those reasons and many more the burqa IS stupid....

Should it be banned for being stupid, some may say yes because of the danger element when in control of vehicles but most would say no because its a bit of cloth and if you want to wear it and alienate yourself from some sections of society that should be your choice.

But then you have to drop all this pedantic crap and move on to the issue at hand, why do people want the burqa banned.

Simply because of what it represents, a garb worn by a section of society who have no inclination to integrate with others, a section that hates the west, a section that hates the average person for not being a radical Muslim. Don't take my word on this, be your own 'Sherlock Holmes' and ask what these people believe in, ask if they want western lifestyles. You may get a few women who wear it by force who really want away from it, you will most likely find that many cannot answer you because they don't speak English, that in itself shows the fundamental commandment of this man made off shoot as to NOT to integrate, we must become them and not vice versa or at least share ideals.

You may also find some women who rattle on about how its THEIR choice and they love it but at the end of the day their words are useless because they DON'T have a choice 99.9% of the time, their husband IS their owner and he dictates what she does, end of.

The Burqa is a symbol of control, you don't think the husband makes her wear it because he likes her in black do you?

The burqa represents everything unhealthy about this off shoot of Islam, its wearers do not care for us really, they see us as dirt, their culture is all important to them but it cannot live along side another, the wish is to be like a locust and change the landscape with only fellow locusts remaining. If you think that's a mythical statement then watch the Saudi stations, listen to them, it won't be long before you get the full message.

Of course Radical apologists will cover their ears and rework their senses so what is said somehow becomes acceptable to them, if that's you then you are a fool and not as intelligent as you thought. When someone is telling you to your face what they want and the same message is repeated time after time by many many different people of authority you really should take your finger out of whatever orifice and BELIEVE them.

The Burqa represents everything we should fear as peaceful democratic people, it IS the opposite of that and that's why it should be shunned.

If you still think its just a bit of cloth and another social control item then good luck to you, when the radicals get to you they won't be writing on a blog, they will be changing your life for whatever is left of it.

I never said that, they have...A lot.....

edit on 17-3-2012 by Mclaneinc because: (no reason given)

Well said!!!! Wish I could give you more stars!!!! Doubt I could have said it better myself!

Originally posted by starchild10

Originally posted by Mclaneinc

You may also find some women who rattle on about how its THEIR choice and they love it but at the end of the day their words are useless because they DON'T have a choice 99.9% of the time, their husband IS their owner and he dictates what she does, end of.

I agree with everything you say apart from this. Where do you get your 99.9% figure from? Please provide a bona fide research link thanks. In fact I think you'll find that some women are dictated to, others think it is their choice but are conforming to subliminal pressure and others do freely make that choice. I even think in some instances it's less of a religious statement and more a political statement of separation. I wouldn't know the percentages however because I'm not a researcher and I haven't seen any studies. Clearly I'm not as well informed as you!
Freedom of choice or not and irrespective of any supposed terrorist threat, I think it is alien to our society and trying to communicate with someone enveloped in a sheet with a slit for the eyes is beyond ridiculous.

edit on 17-3-2012 by starchild10 because: (no reason given)

I'm not going to play the game, by now you must know that I know my stuff, the woman in those circles IS owned by the dad and then any husband, the husband gives the order, if she does not agree with him then woe be tide her, she will suffer.

I wish I could point you to respected sources but by the sheer nature of the control they rarely exist.

If you wish to get versification of the ownership then please watch Saudi channels, they make no bones about it.

Some women claim to have made the decision all on their own but the simple fact remains that once the husband asks for this then the woman MUST conform in their countries or face a rather nasty time. You don't think the laws that a woman accusing a man of rape must have 4 male witnesses on her side are there by accident.

The whole system is man controlled..

Originally posted by couldbeanyone
reply to post by Mclaneinc

 

there are radicals all over the world promoting all kinds of radical beliefs. you are radical, man. the burqa vs. hijab is another discussion in itself, but as for women covering themselves- let them. they have every right to. there are plenty of muslim women who do not cover themselves, but you can't really tell who they are just by looking, now can you?
I am not saying there aren't radical muslims. but the ones wearing burqas are mothers, grandmothers, sisters, daughters. now take a look at the women around the rest of the world, especially western countries. you have to close your eyes if you want to walk down the street and not see something inappropriate in a religious sense. these women are god--fearing people. let them have that. that makes them no different from the amish (actually pretty similar imo), the orthodox of any religion. i have no qualms with someone who believes they need to cover themselves in order not to be taken advantage of in today's society. but of course
THERES ALWAYS A FEW WHO WILL RUIN IT FOR EVERYONE ELSE.

You again have missed the whole point.....

There are 3 kinds of Muslim people who I have clarified in this thread already, anyone covering by the Burqa IS following the wuhabbist way, full coverage ISN'T in the Koran, read it to see....Moderation in coverage is asked for NOT full coverage..

I understand you feel that some are ruining it for others but at this point I'm afraid they have made a pretty poor choice and every so often one has to be taken to account on your choices..

Religions are rarely EVER tolerant nor forgiving.....We also have to look for problems and remove them at times.

reply to post by Night Star


Thank you...I say it because its true and never for stars, I appreciate when people see that I'm only trying to be honest..

Thank you.

Paul.

reply to post by Mclaneinc


while i agree with you on many parts, i still feel that a woman should be allowed to wear the burqa or the niquab if she so pleases. we should not ban any kind of clothing, religious or not, indicative of oppression or not. zionism is oppressive and extreme... should we ban the yam-aka? should we ban beards since it is sunnah? how about banning the colorful african garb? the courts are oppressive and extreme, should we ban the judge's robe? how about banning the color red since it ignites passion? should we ban the french from wearing scarves- they are kind of weird and oppressive. what about the pope? his entire wardrobe should be banned since catholocism is extreme and oppressive. nuns will have to give up the habit and alterboys... well, we'll find something else for them to wear- a sports jersey perhaps. we can force the amish to become nudists while we are at it.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
Who says that the ''majority of Europeans'' disagree that the burqa is a non-issue ? What a bizarre statement.

You are struggling.

Polls, again and again show that the majority of Europeans wish to ban the burqa.

Support for Banning the Burqa

• Britain in 2011 - 66%

• Spain in 2010 - 59%

• France in 2010 - 82%

• Germany in 2010 - 71%

labs.yougov.co.uk...
cdn.yougov.com...

While your opinion is no doubt very important to you, try to look beyond your own ego long enough to take on board that the opinions of the majority of Europeans are of importance to the majority of Europeans...

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
However, as you have singled out the burqa, your agenda is pretty transparent.

Apparently, the majority of European population has 'singled out the burqa'.

Hence considering that your opinion is that of a fringe minority, what exactly is your agenda?

Defending the rights of Wahhabi extremists?

You can judge people by the quality of their friends. You can also judge people by the quality of the people they defend.

Your motives are as transparent as a muddy puddle and just as pure.

Multiculturalism in Europe is in its death throes. That's obvious now. Nationalism is on the rise throughout continental EU and the UK.

But what did they expect? You cannot force cultures to mix and expect harmony. Many cultures and traditions are absolutely incompatible and irreconcilable. The majority of immigrants do not integrate into their new culture, anywhere in the world they may be, nor do they seem to want to. This is perfectly understandable, in my view. I don't blame them at all.

Unlike recent British leaders, most immigrants want to preserve their own culture and traditions. I respect them for that.

OMG WE MIGHT DIE CAUSE BOMB TERRORISTS

Seriously quit eating everything your government and media feeds you, it's such a big fat joke.

Originally posted by Buffalo Soldier
OMG WE MIGHT DIE CAUSE BOMB TERRORISTS

Seriously quit eating everything your government and media feeds you, it's such a big fat joke.

Seriously, could you quit making through away comments about things you clearly don't understand?

People who wear burqas are Wahhabi extremists. Almost all Muslim terrorists are Wahhabi. All Muslims wearing a burqa are Wahhabi.

Here is an example of moderate Muslims in the UK turning on the Wahhabi you appear to support.

The Muslim community turned on extremists in their midst yesterday, telling them they were 'sick and tired' of their behaviour.

The angry confrontation came in Luton, where anti-Islamist protesters brandished England flags last Sunday, before clashing with police.

Angry words were exchanged and scuffles broke out between members of both groups, with the extremists shouting 'Shame on you' and 'Get back to your synagogue'.

The moderates chanted 'Out, Out, Out', and after an uneasy stand-off, police officers were able to persuade the extremist group to leave the area.

During the protest against the homecoming parade of the Royal Anglian regiment in March, the extremists had shouted 'baby killers' and 'butchers of Basra' as well as brandishing placards against the Iraq war.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Here is why the moderate Muslims are angry at the Wahhabi

Wahhabi Muslims in Luton, UK, holding signs saying British soldiers are terrorists and butchers, while shouting 'baby killers'



Because the Wahhabis were doing that as soldiers marched through the town returning from Iraq




And here are their Wahhbi wives, waiting for their Wahhabi men folk to return from a day of protesting.

Originally posted by SprocketUK
No, those were 3 separate polls, you can't just add them together and say 5000

Actually, statistically you can average the means of the three polls, which works out as

(62% + 66% + 66%) = 64.5%.

2 out 3 people in the UK support banning the burqa.

Pew Research
Pew Global
YouGov

Three polls of a total sample size of 5,000 people is a very large poll of statistical significance.

Originally posted by SprocketUK
You have to be very careful with such small samples as you can get wildly skewed results depending on the places and times of day you survey people.

The three polls, which are not small except in your imagination, were carried out by two respected professional polling organisations: YouGoc and Pew Research, which being professional polling organisations took steps to ensure the polls were representative.

I can understand why you prefer to believe that your own opinion(one person) as being more representative of what British people think than three polls amounting to the opinions of 5,000 people (psychologically we all tend to place a lot of emphasis on our own opinions) but you surely can't expect anyone else to agree with you?

2 out 3 people in the UK support banning the burqa.