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STS-48: Debunking Kasher's Five "It-Can't-Be-Ice" Proofs
page: 6share:
Originally posted by dejarmaX
reply to post by depthoffield
If NASA & the authorities know these are intelligently controlled craft & want to keep this from us (as the conspiracy theories suggest), then why do they allow everyone to see them? I'm confused..
Peace.
dej...
The problem with your statement is that you are giving conspiracy theorists a reality that doesn't exist. Anyone can formulate a theory but until evidence is provided to turn a theory into reality, it's worthless. NASA hasn't come out and said, publicly, that they know "...these are intelligently controlled craft & want to keep this from us..." A serious person doesn't accept those rumors. The rumors may be discussed as if they had a reality but I'm glad that we can see the videos and even those that haven't been made public may be acquired from NASA or you can view them on the NASA channel. Too many years, too much footage to look at.
Originally posted by mcrom901
pKJg8LeFqfI
Here is another version of STS-48 and this one contains footage one doesn't see in your footage. Especially the other "SUFOs" that enter the scene at 2:42 from the lower edge towards the left and the footage continues until the camera shows the front of the shuttle's bay.
One thing I noticed with your video. When I try to embed the youtube URL using the VID: YOUTUBE link, it doesn't embed and all you get is a black, blank screen and when one clicks on the YouTube link at the bottom one gets a message at YouTube about a malformed URL ID. Your vid code is different than the youtube URL as seen above without the linking code. Where do you get that kind of link that works?
www.youtube.com...
reply to The Shrike
What do you think about my NASA video posted by me a few posts above? The object behaves exactly like the STS-48 UFO. What do you thing is that object?
What do you think about my NASA video posted by me a few posts above? The object behaves exactly like the STS-48 UFO. What do you thing is that object?
edit on 2/4/12 by depthoffield because: (no reason given)
ooops deleted....
edit on 2-4-2012 by dejarmaX because: (no reason given)
am i? how did you work that one out? you've lost me...btw, it wasn't a statement, it was a question
Originally posted by The Shrike
Originally posted by dejarmaX
reply to post by depthoffield
If NASA & the authorities know these are intelligently controlled craft & want to keep this from us (as the conspiracy theories suggest), then why do they allow everyone to see them? I'm confused..
Peace.
dej...
The problem with your statement is that you are giving conspiracy theorists a reality that doesn't exist. .
The contextual data provided in these links is the kind of info
that Kasher deliberately set out to AVOID using in his analysis,
as he proudly admits. He wanted to prove he could get the "ight
answer"with half his brain tied behind his back -- from the
naked imagery, alone. From a deliberately ignorant starting point.
For those more interested in the REAL explanation, the linked
data supports nearby jet-pulsed debris. So, like Kasher, if you
like the UFO version more, by all means, ignore the contextual
information.
that Kasher deliberately set out to AVOID using in his analysis,
as he proudly admits. He wanted to prove he could get the "ight
answer"with half his brain tied behind his back -- from the
naked imagery, alone. From a deliberately ignorant starting point.
For those more interested in the REAL explanation, the linked
data supports nearby jet-pulsed debris. So, like Kasher, if you
like the UFO version more, by all means, ignore the contextual
information.
Originally posted by JimOberg
Originally posted by mcrom901
sts 49 video full sequence
Thanks. this will help, along with data sheets from Mission Control describing shuttle events.
www.youtube.com...
youtube time tag
2:27 crew comment ‘We’re coming up on sunrise’.
7:30 white haze appears signifying forward-scattered sunlight into PLB
7:45 moving dots appear
8:41 ‘main object’ appears upper center moving to left
8:55 flare in left of screen; main object and some others change direction
Calculated:
Orbital sunrise: 20:38:02 GMT
Sts-48 scene list
www.jamesoberg.com...
20:30:09 to 20:40:58 Camera C – Dark Earth limb with lightning visible over Chnia and the Bay
of Bengal. Continue over Burma, Malaysia, and Indonesia.
STS-48 RCS history telemetry jet L5D
www.jamesoberg.com...
258:20:39:24 [1.2 seconds] firing -- coincides with flash and particles change in motion
DAP [Digital Autopilot] Errors, IMU [Inertial Measurement Unit] Rates, Rate Errors
www.jamesoberg.com...
Top box: Roll, Pitch, Yaw
Center box: Roll rate, Pitch rate, Yaw rate
Bottom Box: Roll rate error, Pitch rate error, Yaw rate error
Bottom scale is time,
258:20:39:00 to 258:20:39:30 has 6 hash marks hence 5 sec/mark,
so time of thruster firing is just short of 5th [of 6] marks in that interval
Read off the center box how pitch rate drops near to zero at precisely that moment.
Read off the top box how pitch angle reaches 1 degree [the allowable deadband]
at precisely that moment, and stops there [because a corrective thruster was fired]
Discussion at www.jamesoberg.com...
STS-48 crew timeline
www.jamesoberg.com...
Originally posted by depthoffield
reply to The Shrike
What do you think about my NASA video posted by me a few posts above? The object behaves exactly like the STS-48 UFO. What do you thing is that object?
edit on 2/4/12 by depthoffield because: (no reason given)
It looks hokey as if it was filmed or video'ed in a fish tank. I may be wrong but I don't think that footage came from any shuttle mission but correct me if I'm really wrong. I wouldn't compare your video to the STS-48 'cause your video doesn't have any of the details seen in the STS-48. The smallness of the image bothers me even though it's what's inside the frame that counts. It looks speeded up even though you say it's normal speed. The objects are not moving away from the shuttle but towards it. The flash occurs in the bottom right corner and maybe upper left corner but only one or two objects get slapped as if by a tennis racquet. Every object should have been affected to some degree since we are not seeing distant objects.
As a comparison to the STS-48 footage I admire your creativity but I give it a 3 out of 10. It doesn't prove anything and the STS-48 footage remains as I've explained it, a mystery that is not due to ice crystals as I don't see any.
Originally posted by dejarmaX
am i? how did you work that one out? you've lost me...btw, it wasn't a statement, it was a question
Originally posted by The Shrike
Originally posted by dejarmaX
reply to post by depthoffield
If NASA & the authorities know these are intelligently controlled craft & want to keep this from us (as the conspiracy theories suggest), then why do they allow everyone to see them? I'm confused..
Peace.
dej...
The problem with your statement is that you are giving conspiracy theorists a reality that doesn't exist. .
It's a roundabout question providing its own answer. You said if NASA knows, then you answer that by intimating that even though they may know they're still allowing us to see the stuff. It's a question that doesn't make sense 'cause it's not that well constructed. The question supposes that NASA knows and want to keep it from us but they're kicking themselves by showing it to us, or words to that effect.
Don't pay attention to conspiracists and enjoy what we get, even if what we get is not all or watered down.
I'll be offline from tomorrow for about two weeks for some foreign travel, so if you want some parting responses, today is the last chance for
awhile.
Reply to "The Shrike"
then,
well, thank you for your opinion. As you see, there where some wrong asumptions when you tried to judge my "UFO"... I have to admit it was a tricky question from me...
The above videoclip with "unexplained tricky UFO" is from STS-75 shuttle mission, extracted from Space Shuttle Video Library , exactly from STS-75 mission, at about 1min05 sec explained by the astronauts themselves..who say that is simply ice.. ice which behaves exactly like in STS-48: some of them are affected by the thrusters, others are not affected
Here the entire sequence:
My "unexplained STS-movie" which show an object which behaves identically with the STS-48 UFO...is a crop from the full frame recorded in STS-75 video library...
Here is how i made the crop (with yellow):
also rotated clockwise with 90 degrees
I croped this way for two reasons:
- to hide visual recognisible details in order to increase the mistery
- to simulate a real common posibility with camera recording video with more zoom and only with empty space viewed in the frame
Also, imagine a more common situation, when camera happened to record a frame (yellow rectangle) also with empty space only (not any part of the shuttle), also with the Earth limb in the image (blue line):
what you should see in this last situation is some "Ufo fleet" flying above/near the Earth...
What i want to demonstrate is how some trivial ice/debris generated by the shuttle can trick the eye and behave strange .... just because ussually we don't understand the orbital mechanics, laws of optics, and became fooled by simple basic laws of point of view perspective (like cinematography tricks) and unrelated details (foreground parts of the shuttle, earth limb in the background etc)
As i said elsewhere, ice/debris generated by the shuttle itself can move steady, can have curved trajectories, sudden changes in trajectories, pulsating or not, suddenly appear, appears to move in group or chaotic etc.
So, simply rejecting ice/debris explanation without hard proofs, is more like a subjective approach...
Originally posted by depthoffield
I've just found another shuttle video, where (at least) an object suddenly accelerate and change direction...very very similarly with STS48 object in discussion here.
The object is moving very slowly (and pulsate), then a flash occurs, and object accelerate tremendous in another direction out of the frame. Exactly like in our STS-48 example.
The object is in upper part of the frame, almost stationary...in fact moving very slowly and pulsating. Then suddenly...ziiip!
The videoclip is here (sorry about low quality):
How about this?
p.s. the movie is in normal speed, as recorded by the shuttle camera.
then,
Originally posted by The Shrike
Originally posted by depthoffield
reply to The Shrike
What do you think about my NASA video posted by me a few posts above? The object behaves exactly like the STS-48 UFO. What do you thing is that object?
It looks hokey as if it was filmed or video'ed in a fish tank. I may be wrong but I don't think that footage came from any shuttle mission but correct me if I'm really wrong. I wouldn't compare your video to the STS-48 'cause your video doesn't have any of the details seen in the STS-48. The smallness of the image bothers me even though it's what's inside the frame that counts. It looks speeded up even though you say it's normal speed. The objects are not moving away from the shuttle but towards it. The flash occurs in the bottom right corner and maybe upper left corner but only one or two objects get slapped as if by a tennis racquet. Every object should have been affected to some degree since we are not seeing distant objects.
As a comparison to the STS-48 footage I admire your creativity but I give it a 3 out of 10. It doesn't prove anything and the STS-48 footage remains as I've explained it, a mystery that is not due to ice crystals as I don't see any.
well, thank you for your opinion. As you see, there where some wrong asumptions when you tried to judge my "UFO"... I have to admit it was a tricky question from me...
The above videoclip with "unexplained tricky UFO" is from STS-75 shuttle mission, extracted from Space Shuttle Video Library , exactly from STS-75 mission, at about 1min05 sec explained by the astronauts themselves..who say that is simply ice.. ice which behaves exactly like in STS-48: some of them are affected by the thrusters, others are not affected
Here the entire sequence:
My "unexplained STS-movie" which show an object which behaves identically with the STS-48 UFO...is a crop from the full frame recorded in STS-75 video library...
Here is how i made the crop (with yellow):
also rotated clockwise with 90 degrees
I croped this way for two reasons:
- to hide visual recognisible details in order to increase the mistery
- to simulate a real common posibility with camera recording video with more zoom and only with empty space viewed in the frame
Also, imagine a more common situation, when camera happened to record a frame (yellow rectangle) also with empty space only (not any part of the shuttle), also with the Earth limb in the image (blue line):
what you should see in this last situation is some "Ufo fleet" flying above/near the Earth...
What i want to demonstrate is how some trivial ice/debris generated by the shuttle can trick the eye and behave strange .... just because ussually we don't understand the orbital mechanics, laws of optics, and became fooled by simple basic laws of point of view perspective (like cinematography tricks) and unrelated details (foreground parts of the shuttle, earth limb in the background etc)
As i said elsewhere, ice/debris generated by the shuttle itself can move steady, can have curved trajectories, sudden changes in trajectories, pulsating or not, suddenly appear, appears to move in group or chaotic etc.
So, simply rejecting ice/debris explanation without hard proofs, is more like a subjective approach...
Originally posted by depthoffield
There is not so rare ocasions to find ice, or other similar generated debris around the shuttle (because the shuttle is the source).
examples:
or STS-75, 48 etcetera, but is better to think of these as alien ships or critters, is much more fun.
So, you see, ice/debris generated by the shuttle simply CAN act as we see in STS-48...and Mr Oberg just have more hard data which explain how a thruster burn is the cause of the particle changing its trajectory.
edit on 5/4/12 by depthoffield because: (no reason given)
edit on 5/4/12 by depthoffield because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by martynNASAman
RE: your 2nd question..
.. on the STS-75 mission, the tether & satellite, by the way...were being observed by the "TOP" camera... to examine the high voltage sheath of electrically charged ("ionized") gas that surrounded them as they flew through the Earth's ionosphere, giving the thin tether a "glow" (that made it so visible from 100 nautical miles)
There is also luminescence produced by the "electron beams" & interaction of the electrically charged satellite. NASA's "electron beams" (electrons are invisible to the human eye & they are chaotic. spinning around their nucleus..protons)...must be energy moving along the tether.
The tether was producing electricity ..before & after the break. Distorted or "stray light" had no impact on depth of field. The NASA video camera was focused on infinity, thus nothing could have been out of focus.
Objects can be out of focus even when the lens is focused at infinity look up the depth of feild chart for a lens, if its a telephoto lens focused on infinity objects close to the camera and up to a few hundred feet out can be out of focus ,depends on the focal length of the lens!