The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997 aka: The Phoenix Lights

reply to post by The Shrike



Hi Shrike, It's not obvious from your replies, but my impression was that there were at least 2 seperate incidents for the Pheonix Lights.

The first real incident was a huge craft flying silently over the suburbs. The second was a staged military flare drop, close to the city, replicating the light pattern of what had been seen earlier.

From what I can gather, your shouting out hoax, quite correctly about the staged flare drop, thinking that this is all there is to the story. The real story is the thing that happened earlier.

Originally posted by Wushusigung
I have a question, (by the way, it was indeed a very nice live show) My question is one of simplicity, what exactly do YOU think the V-shaped objest was

I strongly believe it was not of this Earth. Because they (3) changed shape from V shape into a white ball of light and vanished (5:30 pm Crown King, AZ.) it was deemed possibly interdiminsional. Also, because of the massive size, ability to pass at low spped (30-45 mph) ability to do so at low altitude with no noise what so ever.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum
Welcome to ATS mate, just want to say that military flares escapade later in the evening annoyed me but I can't say I'm all that surprised given their history on the UFO phenomenon.

I second the question on what you think it was and also, what were the emotions you felt staring at this thing? Apologies if un-original but I'd like to know.

Pure awe. Never before have I concentrated on something so much, I told myself not to blink, We have been told all our lives that things like this cannot exist. We were frozen in our place, jaws on the ground so to speak. Confussion. We (I) originally thought "plane crash" while closing the bedroom window.

I truly do give thanks for being able to see such a wonderous craft.

Another emotion was...non-threatening. No witnesses claimed fear. Words like friendly, peacefull, benevolant, were used describing their emotions.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
reply to post by The Shrike

 

The Shrike, you may be right, but...

What do you say about the hundreds of people who described a silent boomerang shaped solid object blocking out stars as it passed slowly over the sky?

What do you say about the governor of Phoenix, Fife Symington who says he saw a giant craft that blocked the stars out as it passed? Symington was a pilot I might add...

How do you explain these testimonies?

Thank you. I do understand people like Shrike. He needs to enjoy his own experience. Then all his comments will be answered. Shrike reminds me of James McGaha.


(welcome to ATS Mike...

)

edit on 13-3-2012 by thesearchfortruth because: he added welcome

Originally posted by The Shrike
reply to post by mikefortson

 

4. Because the military flares were dropped behind the mountains and this is supported by the nighttime video(s)taken from the opposite hills overlooking Phoenix and supported with daylight video from same location.

Originally posted by xpoq47
. Somebody also made sure just the right person to videotape it and get it on the eleven o'clock news was notifed just in time, as well as making sure the pattern of the flare drop closely mimicked the mass sighting of an hour and a half earlier.

ever since seeing the classic 'Phoenix Lights' video (of the dubious flare drop)

i concluded that somebody took the video at the Papago Park...from the 'Hole-in-the-Rock' formation
see: brazilbrazil.com...

there is a small thumbnail (click to enlarge) of the Hole in the Rock on the page
and from there (closed at night) above the botanical garden one has a clear view of the WSW direction of the Phoenix Lights episode , beyond the south mountains & into the Goldwater target range.




just my 2 ¢
thanks

if hundreds of people saw this huge v shaped craft why did nobody have the common sense to photograph or film it

Originally posted by chunder
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Beat me to it and for the last week or so I have considered starting a thread to that effect !

I don't subscribe to the theory that the earlier sightings were jets but accept the later lights as flares. I wonder how often flares were dropped at that location - if very rarely then to coincide with the earlier sightings is a big coincidence.

If deliberate then to obfuscate but considering the delay it would seem unlikely what was seen was military.

I honestly didn't think this was an issue of debate and debunk. The Phoenix Lights, 1997 was a pivotal event.

My friend in Sedona, called me up and told me about this sighting (the one in the valley wasn't known just yet) the next morning on the 14th. It hadn't made national news yet. So I was right on this right from the get-go.

I remember reading and hearing that the military denied any involvement with any drills and knew nothing about this 10PM sighting.

I remember the Governor made his speech regarding this event....because too many people were demanding answers and.......he marched out that alien-custom clad guy as a joke.
I was pissed.
How dare he make light of this? He later apologized and said he wanted to lighten up the mood because people were freaking out. (freaking out? I thought they were flares?)


Yeah, 15 years later, it's easy to start a thread and have people from all walks of life chime in and say whatever they want due to whatever agenda they have but, this wasn't the case that year!!!
I was on top of this story, on the morning of March 14 and pretty much have been attached to it ever since.

How about the famous video analyst, Jim Dilettoso (who I also corresponded with) ? He determined the lights over Phoenix were from an unknown source. He firstly and immediately ruled out flares. What?...we can't trust professionals now?



So we can't trust 'professional' video experts and we SHOULDN'T believe a man who was good enough and intelligent enough to RUN that entire state as Governor too?
But we SHOULD believe random people trying to debunk this event instead who want us to believe..... the Governor was 'told' they were flares and yet choose to ignore that 'fact' and start a rumor instead!
Really?
Whatever...........................





It is crucial that you all realize.....the military denied this at first and I will try to find proof of that. I am not certain when they decided to take the credit but I assure you, that wasn't the case at first!

Originally posted by dashdespatch
if hundreds of people saw this huge v shaped craft why did nobody have the common sense to photograph or film it

You have to realize technology was a little different 15 years ago than it is now. People didn't have camera's on their cell phones. Hell, most people didn't even have cell phones. So, please consider that. Taking a photo wasn't as readily available as it is today but that doesn't take away from this HUGE sighting.


First you must suspend disbelief
Start 4:30



3-months later the military STILL didn't take responsibility for this!
Here's my friend Tim.
Notice the difficulty he and his son have when trying to describe this craft. You can't make that up!!



From this DOCTORS eye witness photos and Tim Ley's account...it sounds like there were at least two different crafts earlier that evening. (the military certainly had a busy busy night, huh?)

reply to post by Human_Alien


Sorry, maybe I am not as familiar with this event, I understood that it was pretty widely accepted that the later video and sightings were flares but the earlier sightings of the same day were still unexplained. That the pilot had dropped the flares unauthorised at that location which wasn't determined until some time later, I need to do some further reading.

By the way also, welcome Mike, I'm sure there will be a few who are better versed in this who will have some questions.

reply to post by Human_Alien


i had a digital camera 15 years ago and millions had 35 mm point and shootcameras if this thing was slowly moving as stated shurely sombody would have popped indoors to grab an analogue camera and take a pic

reply to post by chunder


Hi there! That's okay that you're not familiar with this event. That's why we have the Internet and forums. To share information.

I however AM familiar with this event.

Ask yourself this: Why would a Governor, with a military background and a law-degree start an investigation on flares? You don't think he'd be privy to 'secret' drills so to quiet down his people?

It is SO incredibly easy to say something 'after-the-fact'. But the FACT was, no one...not military nor airports knew anything about this one sighting at 10PM. Then we find out a couple days later about ANOTHER mass sighting starting in Nevada into Arizonia earlier that evening.

What are the odds?

You think people want to jump on the bandwagon to look like kooks just because they saw an opportunity to do so with this now famous, 10PM sighting?
People generally don't work that way. People (especially back then and earlier) wanted to separate themselves from UFO-related stories because it wasn't as accepted as it is today.


It's more reliable to accept what was said THEN opposed to what's being said now. That is generally the rule of thumb when it comes to our government and cover-ups.

reply to post by chunder


yeha if people videoed the "flares" why didnt the video the huge v shaped craft?

Originally posted by dashdespatch
reply to post by chunder

 

yeha if people videoed the "flares" why didnt the video the huge v shaped craft?

Some folks knew the military flares would be dropping

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


how?

Originally posted by dashdespatch
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

i had a digital camera 15 years ago and millions had 35 mm point and shootcameras if this thing was slowly moving as stated shurely sombody would have popped indoors to grab an analogue camera and take a pic

There are photos. There just aren't tons of them.


Let me ask you...it seems like you think because there aren't a lot of photos, you think tens of thousands of people are making this up?
(and people say I'm a conspiracy theorist!)

reply to post by Human_Alien


Well, as far as I can tell it is widely accepted that the March 13th 1997 10pm sightings and video were of a flare drop. Dilettoso later changed his opinion to the flares explanation. Maccabee was always of the opinion they were flares. Motzer's triangulations and analysis showed them as highly likely flares.

There is here say on many sites, including threads on ATS from AF personnel, that there was a 10pm flare drop and I think nearly all witnesses to the earlier events accept that there was a later flare drop. Symington appears to have got the timeline and the two sightings mixed - as did the media at the time and many since. The 10pm sighting and the 8 or 9 lights in an arc videos and photo's appear to be flares period, whilst the earlier sightings are unexplained.

There are many possible reasons why the later flares were captured on film but only a single, short inconclusive video of an earlier sighting is available, aside from Jeff Willes daylight orb footage.

Firstly the flares were visible for nearly 5 minutes and were relatively stationary - and didn't indicate a large craft to witnesses. The earlier sightings were shorter lived, of moving lights and dark masses that indicated craft.


For Mike - did you have any camera or phone etc on you that could capture images and if so what was it that stpped you from doing so ?

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by dashdespatch
reply to post by chunder

 

yeha if people videoed the "flares" why didnt the video the huge v shaped craft?

Some folks knew the military flares would be dropping

Yeah. 15-years later!

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by dashdespatch
reply to post by chunder

 

yeha if people videoed the "flares" why didnt the video the huge v shaped craft?

Some folks knew the military flares would be dropping

Easily be military observers or anyone else that knew the military would be having exercises that evening. I'm not sure who would be aware of the occupants in the big spaceships itinerery

Good Day H_A,

Originally posted by Human_Alien

(snip)

How about the famous video analyst, Jim Dilettoso (who I also corresponded with) ? He determined the lights over Phoenix were from an unknown source. He firstly and immediately ruled out flares. What?...we can't trust professionals now? . . .

Aside from various photographic analysis and investigations that affirmed the videos were of flares; aside from the Maryland Air National Guard admitting dropping the flares, Jim Dilettoso has reversed himself, and now agrees with the common consensus that the 10:00 pm lights were flares. Hear him in his own words:

VIDCAST | The Phoenix Lights: Photographic Expert, Jim Dilettoso Reverses Position - Latest Analysis Increases Probability of Flares for Famed Video

Cheers,
Frank

Originally posted by chunder
reply to post by Human_Alien

 

Dilettoso later changed his opinion to the flares explanation.

Jim Dilettoso did no such thing. Show me where he 'changed his opinion' please.
He always maintained (as far as I know and.... up until 2010) that these lights appeared in FRONT of the mountain range. Not behind.... in which the military 'flare' explanation supposedly took place (that took several months to be publicly announced!)

Don't you see?......the government/military always has this wiggle room by cloaking events by using the veil of 'secrecy' or 'national security' as an excuse.
But just because they CAN use this excuse doesn't make an event any less real. Their word doesn't trump over witness testimony anymore. Sorry.... but common sense is getting too sharp now. And we've learned to question authority! Not to mention....we're not naive citizens living in the 50's anymore.

Maccabee was always of the opinion they were flares.

I've always found Bruce Mac to be a bit more conservative and skeptical in his findings. A good researcher should remain neutral. He's more old schooled. So I'm not surprised if he did say this.