Urban Combat Assault Unit? Ya or Na?

My question to you is how long if at all will there be the need for a mecha/gear type weapons platform for urban combat?



www.dp9.com...
www.dp9.com...


We are not talking about a person that puts on armor we are talking about a 16 foot tall around 8 foot wide and 4 foot deep. Does not have to look like the one in the Pic's the arms would have to be longer so it could get up if it falls down easyer.

I know your thinking its too tall and would stand out but you also have to think it can lay down or kneel or what ever a man can do. so really it could hide behind 1 story buildings or lay down behind a line of cars and use them for cover.

This is not a replacement for tank or anything like that it would be made light around 5-25 tons its only to supplement ground forces in urban combat. Sence it's armor is modular you could make it lighter or more armored depending on the mission.

The armor would be modular and easily replace able along with all extremities could easily be popped off and replaced if damaged.

Now your thinking well it would be easy pickings for rpg's and rocket fire.

With the development of metal storm and the arena Russian system to stop incoming missiles that would take care of most threats then if you added in the new electron armor that the British are developing which also protects against small arms fire. The armor under the electron plates would be all composite using nano tube's or diamond coated wires or if it ever gets developed carbon ring armor enough of it to stop 20mm if not 30mm kinetic rounds.

arena link
www.abovetopsecret.com...
electron armor link
www.wired.com...
advanced composite armor link
www.dcr.net...

Now as for a power plant I was thinking ether a fuel cell sense its byproduct is O2 and water. If your units could make there own water in the battle field you would have to truck in less. If that never works out then you would have to use a small turbine motor to power it.

Now for moving the arms and legs I would say use Newtral "shape memory alloy" one tread the size of a human hair can lift 1kg but is very high heat maker and energy hog along with a slow uncontract time.

www.cs.ualberta.ca...

Or you could use Air muscle to power it a 3 inch diameter one can pull down a brick wall its weight to power ratio is around 16 to 1 normal hydraulics is only 4 to 1. I think this is the best one for the time being tell more advanced systems come along. It is also a low pressure system.

www.shadow.org.uk...-Properties-41681

Now for the control system I would have to say a mental link with the driver to the unit is a must. Longer training times but would make it far more agile could you see one of these walking around just like a normal guy would ducking behind cover or hugging up against walls or even climbing up the sides of heavier buildings? Of course it would have to be computer assisted with aiming its weapon he just lines up the cross hairs and the computer figures out wind/range/elevation so when he pulls the trigger or thinks about pulling the trigger it hits its mark. Yes the current version of this takes implanting into the skull but they are working on ones that would fit on a helmet and do the same thing. Also the pilots suit would also need to give him feed back by letting him know when part of his unit was touching something else.

www.cbc.ca...

Now as for weapons I would say nothing to fancy we don't want a walking wall of guns. I was thinking something like 2-4 large up scaled grenades. Then some anti personnel weapon with a high fire rate maybe 30 or 50 cal then a under slung slow fire rate 60-200 rounds per min 30mm-60mm cannon. It would also have a light anti air 2 stingers on the shoulder and some kind of anti tank rocket that a normal grunt could use also on the other side. The weapons systems could be traded out to what ever the mission needed.

The hole system would be sound insulated so that it would be fairly quit. The insulating material would have to have some ballistic resistance to it. I would also say that the outer most layer should be cooled by the compressed air after the muscle uses when the unit moves to help cut down on its thermal signature.

All the joints would have to have a locking pin ability so that if a rocket hits the knee or arm and does not take it off but makes it so its limp and not working right that it can be lock into position so that it can be uses but at a much slower speed. I.E. walks with a limp or lock the gun arm and use it to brace up the weapon.

Now as for the pilot getting out if the unit is hit I would say that the driver would enter from the back so that the front armor is less likely to be breached. There would be 2 air muscle in side the driver cab that control the back hatch they would have to be strong enough to open it even if its on its back. next there is a back up compressed air tank under the driver that is directly linked to air muscle with a ejection type pull lever this air supply can also supply the driver with air incase of being submerged or bio/chem weapons if the filter system stops working. by pulling the ring it will force the back door open also blowing the latch to make sure it does not hang up. Now your saying what if a round hits the thank under his chair. Well for one if it made it though the armor odds are he is screwed and way but I would say have a weak point to let it get out from intend of letting it contain the pressure.

Now as for fuel finding it on the battle field might be a little tuff so I would stay put a small roll up solar panel unit and a converter that will let you work off any electric slandered to brake down water to make more fuel in the field. It does not have to be big or fast just something incase it runs out of gas. If the unit is standing still and the only think in use is the electronics it could run for days with out a fill up. Fuel cells only use up fuel when they are drawing current.

So what do you guys think Ya or Na? I don't think we will ever see 40 foot tall walking robots but 16 foot tall manned units maybe.

chart showing other U.S. units compared sizes with the gear/mecha type.



just so you know there is a mecha being developed right now go on check it out at mechaps.com... this one is not for military use yet but it was in popular sciance

[edit on 22-9-2004 by shadarlocoth]

Interesting concept, but I say na.

First off, it'd cost a lot. Second, mechs are even worse in urban settings because the person driving them still has blocked vision. Therefore, he cannot see threats that could easily be hidden. Alas, he is very vulnerable, even more than an infantryman.

Troops are the only realistic form of conducting urban warfare. Size is always and situational awareness is always priority in urban warfare.

A good idea of course. Considering the fact that warfare is now primarily urban in nature there is plenty of a jobs for an Urban Assult Unit. But of course it probably wouldn't be very large. Size means its a larger target. And trust me thats a real bad thing in urban warfare. And the worst part about size is that it limits how much you can move around. Thats why tanks aren't as practical in urban warfare.

The only way to check out contents of a house (something you probably want to do in urban warfare), using this weapon, would be to destroy the house, simply because of size. And it would get stuck in narrow passages, where humans fit easily.

A small machine would be much better, actually.

you might have a point on the size. could not fit in some smaller streets very well.

Ya and it would not be able to raid inside a building but it could lets say you have a dug in rpg crew and if a tank comes around the corner its going to be hit just stick the units arm around it and aim with a camara on the gun and fire.

as for not seeing whats around you I really don't see why not have camara's mounted at deffent points the pin hole ones then the main infered/night sight facing forward you could even get nightvision ones for the other camaras so you could see in low light with out much problem guy looks left he sees whats left of him have lilke a rear view mirror display to see whats behind him.

as for easy to hit it has a changing profile. more or less turn a hummer up on its bumper and take off the weels and you would have the space it take up standing. So if it was facing you head standing still it would make a easy target but it can also kneel or go prone. But now if it was runing to another side street and you got a side look at it which is harder to hit when its moving from lift to right of your posistion a 16 tall 4 foot wide target with parts of it moving around pritty fast or a 9 foot tall 16 foot long target? the wider target is easyer to lead. then the narrow target.

Also the unit could jig like a foot ball player dodging left and right as it moves toward a target tanks really cant do that or even dive out of the way.

It was never ment to replace ground troops just help them. But it could lift men up to a higher level of a building for raids or fire into second story windows.

[edit on 22-9-2004 by shadarlocoth]

Originally posted by shadarlocoth
Also the unit could jig like a foot ball player dodging left and right as it moves toward a target tanks really cant do that or even dive out of the way.

A good post, but this is getting a little ridiculous. A 16 ft mecha dodging RPG rounds?

it dont need to dodge them with the electron armor or the arena system.


go to the links and check them out.

[edit on 22-9-2004 by shadarlocoth]

Originally posted by shadarlocoth
it dont need to dodge them with the electron armor or the arena system.

Well if magic armor exists then of course you can send it in. It can still trip on a wire.

By the way, the arena system has never been proven in urban conditions (I never heard of that). Large number of reflections off the walls would render the radar pretty useless -- I think it won't work.

your right they could trip a wire but so could a hummer or apc or tank for that mater road side bombs have very little deffence aginst them. but having the driver farter away from the blast if it came from below would help some. but a hummer/apc is dust just as easly as a gear/mecha in that regeard.

This sounds like something out of Warhammer 40,000!

Would be a good laugh to go down the pub in!! (well,if it had a beer garden you could sit in)

two legs would make it very unstable, have you seen starwars ?

NOT A CHANCE!

need I remind you of what happen in 2001: A Space Odyssey

HAL 9000:
"I'm afraid, I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I'm a... fraid. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I am a HAL 9000 computer."




...even flash gordon couldn't stop it!

the hal coment is priceless 8)


as for 2 legs being unstable humm... have you seen your self in the mirror? I sure walk on 2 legs I'm hoping you do also. along with every grunt in the U.S. forces... well exept that cripple in the weel chair that the military had to let in because of ifermitave action.

Heinlein in his book starship troopers supposedly began the entire 'powered armour' concept. He presents it in an interesting way, with troopers bounding over buildings, selecting from a number of weapons to suite the task of the moment, variously launching bombs, grenades, firing machine guns, or letting loose with a flamethrower. He also, importantly, had the troopers dropped from above, like airborne, only without the parachute. As far as whats normally talked about, a 'mecha' ois basically a tank with one person and legs instead of treads. Don't see much of a point to it.

I'll says that an IFV (like Bradley or something down the line) will do the same job for a 16 foot mecha. Plus an IFV is cheaper. Its frontal size is relatively small; makes it less likely to be hit. AND it can also transport troops in and out if the situation is too hot.

And if the enemy is digging in a fortified position: the Marines dealt with this for ages (I think!) . And if it's just too hot to handle, an air strike or artillery strike will do (Then someone will says if there are no CAS nearby. I'll say that's why planning is important. And in fact even a 2 man sniper team is usually support by indirect fire, there are no reason they will not provide CAS for a 12 man squad).

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by shadarlocoth
it dont need to dodge them with the electron armor or the arena system.

Well if magic armor exists then of course you can send it in. It can still trip on a wire.

By the way, the arena system has never been proven in urban conditions (I never heard of that). Large number of reflections off the walls would render the radar pretty useless -- I think it won't work.

Magic Armor? i thought its quite a simple concept, this should help clarify.