God

I will keep it short and sweet..

For the Atheist that is sure to show up....this is a hypothetical question and am not saying God is real. So if you must do your usual run and post...GOD IS NOT REAL ..get it out of your system.

OK, if God is real..why do people blame him, her or it for the atrocities that their followers commit. After the original version of this being was based on pure love...so why blame them for having idiots amongst their group.

The true believers would not be anything like the morons who preach hate...etc.

Myself..I am not sure what to believe...but I cannot say I believe either way yet...leaning more to non-belief but that is not the topic..just thought I would share that...

reply to post by kerazeesicko


God is not Real

blieveing is really no different than disbelieving. you're building something up to hide behind. that what intellect seeks after, security

reply to post by kerazeesicko


There are several possible answers, the simplest of which is the Problem of Evil. If God is good and all powerful than he has the power to prevent all evil and would also have the desire to do so, thus evil should not logically exist. So his followers wouldn't be able to go around killing in his name.

Another answer is that the Bible, and other "holy" books, are filled with stories of supposedly just and righteous deities commanding their followers directly to commit such atrocities.

Personally I don't blame God for any of the atrocities because I don't believe there are any gods (though it's possible there are somewhere out there I don't see any evidence). The blame rests squarely where it should, on the people committing the atrocities and on those in power within the hierarchy of the religions that sponsored the atrocities.

Supposing a God exists the Problem of Evil is likely the only reason one can blame God for such atrocities, as All Power means he possesses All Responsibility for everything, including human behavior (the free will defense does not work).

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


What you say is true..but what about free will. If God exists and gave us free will ..do you not think that they would give us the right to choose?

Also if this God does exist...would we want him/her/it babying us..ie...something bad is gonna happen..have no fear..God will take of it. We would basically be infants..and would be completely useless on our own. Never having to take care our ourselves, make our own decisions or fight for own survival..would we really want something there to take care of us in every aspect our lives?

reply to post by kerazeesicko


God has nothing to do with the material plane, and all that comes with it. Didn't create man, earth, nor space... these are all constructs of the mind.

This is why Jesus wasn't much for spreading the word of the OT and the creation stories that went with them, for they were only constructs of pagan pagan rituals and beliefs.

We can only blame ourselves for the conscious observations, for we have created them all in the first place. This universe is not training grounds, or a place for bad souls to live in, in order to cleanse themselves. This is a realm in which those souls who have fallen from grace, after witnessing the greatest of trajedies(satan, fall from heaven). Through delusion, these souls struggle, and through faith find their way back to God.

or something like that

"threw you the obvious and you flew
with it on your back, a name in your recollection,
thrown down among a million same.
difficult not to feel a little bit disappointed
and passed over
when i've looked right through
to see you naked and oblivious
and
you don't see me.but i threw you the obvious
just to see if there's more behind the eyes
of a fallen angel,
the eyes of a tragedy."

Title: A Perfect Circle - Three Libras lyrics



"What the deal playboy, just rest your soul
I be holding it down yo still love the dough
...
Therefore a world with amnesia won't forget your name
You held it down long enough, let me take those reigns
And just like your spirit the commision remains"

Jay Z - "The City Is Mine" (feat. Blackstreet)

I was a believer then a non believer now I am a believer again there has to be a governing intelligence behind everything. not a very bright intelligence but a basic one at the very least. the stars galaxies everything in the known and unknown universe started from a single point we can all agree on that regardless of what religion you align or don't align yourself with. the whole universe cannot just have come about by chance or coincidence. there must be a mind or consciousness that conceived all there is. if not then truly what is the point of existence?
to learn and grow to what end?
for what point ?
the uni-multiverse is beyond imagination, beyond rational thought beyond even this thought whatever you can imagine regardless of how outlandish must exist in some form or another just based on the size of the universe
so there must be mind behind it all if not then truly all of this is a waste of time

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
I will keep it short and sweet..

For the Atheist that is sure to show up....this is a hypothetical question and am not saying God is real. So if you must do your usual run and post...GOD IS NOT REAL ..get it out of your system.

OK, if God is real..why do people blame him, her or it for the atrocities that their followers commit. After the original version of this being was based on pure love...so why blame them for having idiots amongst their group.

The true believers would not be anything like the morons who preach hate...etc.

Myself..I am not sure what to believe...but I cannot say I believe either way yet...leaning more to non-belief but that is not the topic..just thought I would share that...

I don't know man.. Pure love? TBH I think the devil is a nicer guy than the god of the Jews that the Abrahamists worship.. I mean how many people has the devil killed directly? God on the other hand almost completely wiped out humanity... Then he helped the Israelites conquer their holy land and no doubt thousands of people died in those wars... Then he helped them conquer it again less than 100 years ago. I think it's safe to say that God helped the jews to kill hundreds of civilians in operation Cast Lead just a few years ago, considering that he has helped them kill before around those areas... Does god has double standards, like the Jews can kill and conquer while others have to love their enemies? I don't know man.. Pure love?

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
I will keep it short and sweet..

For the Atheist that is sure to show up....this is a hypothetical question and am not saying God is real. So if you must do your usual run and post...GOD IS NOT REAL ..get it out of your system.

OK, if God is real..why do people blame him, her or it for the atrocities that their followers commit. After the original version of this being was based on pure love...so why blame them for having idiots amongst their group.

The true believers would not be anything like the morons who preach hate...etc.

Myself..I am not sure what to believe...but I cannot say I believe either way yet...leaning more to non-belief but that is not the topic..just thought I would share that...

Nice post.

It's the fringe element of society that makes the news and people generalize the actions of one or a few individuals to reflect upon the whole group. Hence, we hear protesters shouting death to America, Muslims, Christians, Jews and so on. Not only do the people get stereotyped, but because of their actions people assume their higher power is evil, made-up or not very helpful.

I know many people here a problem with belief in a higher power. My thought is that I wish the politicians had faith that would make them fear the day they will be held accountable for the way they used their power.

Our society is in decline. To me it seems leaders that have turned the human race into parasites that are destroying the world, no better than the aliens in the movie Independence Day. We are raping our world through corporate and governmental greed and selfishness. The sad thing is humans have such great potential to love and it is the hate that gets the focus and attention.

This societal decline is a result of the NWO being the only higher power of the elite.

Want to blame somebody? Do the most damage you can and put it on God.

God gave us this world, what you and I do with it is our responsibility. We dig ourselves a big pit and fall into it and blame God for not getting us out. This world is not utopia. # happens. This life is not the end all be all, and if it is for you, you have my condolences.

Originally posted by kerazeesicko
OK, if God is real..why do people blame him, her or it for the atrocities that their followers commit

because they obviously believe in God... I just figure they are trying to justify or either gain remorse for their actions?

Op these are some of the questions i have spinning around.
I can not see how a god could let his people do such horrible
things to each other.Why do we have wars,homelessness,hunger and the list
goes on and on.I just can't get pass the why.

My opinion is that people who don't take the time to actually reflect, and understand WHAT God truly is, and come to know Him, have weak understandings of His reality. If you haven't come to know Him, then surely you would think of God as an intervening force and would assume that people who believe in Him should automatically be saints in their own character. They are people who have accountability issues, and project them on others, giving God credit for their crimes, and good works.

God is real but you just cant and wont comprehend it. Your version of what god may be is the ridiculous.

The beauty of it all is that God exists rather you believe it or not. God is not what you think it is. It goes beyond that. Therefore do not attempt to figure it out. There are many more things to occupy your time here rather than chasing the unobtainable.

I have seen many atheists blame god for their miserable lives and in return the attempt to deny. How childish.

The harmony which regulates the mechanism of the universe can only result from combinations adopted in view of predetermined ends, and thus, by its very nature, reveals the existence of an Intelligent Power. To attribute the first formation of things to chance is nonsense for chance cannot produce the results of intelligence. If chance could be intelligent, it would cease to be chance.


What proof have we that the first cause of all things is a Supreme Intelligence, superior to all other intelligences?

"You have a proverb which says, 'The workman is known by his work.' Look around you, and, from the quality of the work, infer that of the workman."

We judge of the power of an intelligence by its works as no human being could create that which is produced by nature, it is evident that the first cause must be an Intelligence superior to man. Whatever may be the prodigies accomplished by human intelligence, that intelligence itself must have a cause and the greater the results achieved by it, the greater must be the cause of which it is the effect. It is this Supreme Intelligence that is the first cause of all things, whatever the name by which mankind may designate it.

I believe in God. But really that doesn't matter. He exists, he existed before I believed in Him and He exists irregardless of my belief.
I don't blame God for any atrocities committed by people. People, without God, naturally behave that way. It's just our animalistic nature, something you cannot overcome without God.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


I blame God for the title of this thread.

reply to post by kerazeesicko

What you say is true..but what about free will. If God exists and gave us free will ..do you not think that they would give us the right to choose?

The free will defense really doesn't work against the problem of evil for several reasons. If we posit that this God interferes with his creation in the form of miraculous healing or divine intervention for instance - as many believers do - then clearly God doesn't have a problem interfering with the natural order or free will of individuals in some cases.

If we have a deistic non-interventionist god then the free will defense would work a lot better in this case, since the deistic god merely creates and sets the world in motion and gets out of the way afterward.

Also if this God does exist...would we want him/her/it babying us..ie...something bad is gonna happen..have no fear..God will take of it.

Clearly some people DO want a God to baby them otherwise they wouldn't pray. People pray for new cars, promotions, jobs, etc, and according to the Bible God is meant to honor these requests. The Psalms are a great example as many of them involve crying out to God for help in a bad situation. So obviously there are a lot of people who want help with their problems, from the mundane to the spiritual.

would we really want something there to take care of us in every aspect our lives?

Personally I'd prefer to maintain my autonomy. That's one of the many reasons I eventually rejected Christianity, because it was a choice between which slave master I wanted to serve. There are hundreds of verses calling God a King and saying that we must bow, submit to his will, and serve him literally for eternity. Jesus even says his "yoke is easy and his burden light", comparing his followers to livestock.

If an all powerful God does exist it necessarily maintains all responsibility, for everything, our free will and decisions would just be a by-product of this God. This is why the Problem of Evil has puzzled apologists for centuries, if God is all powerful and all good whence come evil?

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
I believe in God. But really that doesn't matter. He exists, he existed before I believed in Him and He exists irregardless of my belief.
I don't blame God for any atrocities committed by people. People, without God, naturally behave that way. It's just our animalistic nature, something you cannot overcome without God.

"Since no one really knows anything about God, those who think they do are just troublemakers." Rabia Al-Basri

I have no god. I do however have a good life, a wonderful family and lifelong friends.

Guess I missed orientation for how to be godless correctly.

Let's finish with a quote from one of our most recent war criminals.
“I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job.” –George W. Bush

Originally posted by Noncompatible

Originally posted by MarlboroRedCowgirl
I believe in God. But really that doesn't matter. He exists, he existed before I believed in Him and He exists irregardless of my belief.
I don't blame God for any atrocities committed by people. People, without God, naturally behave that way. It's just our animalistic nature, something you cannot overcome without God.

"Since no one really knows anything about God, those who think they do are just troublemakers." Rabia Al-Basri

I have no god. I do however have a good life, a wonderful family and lifelong friends.

Guess I missed orientation for how to be godless correctly.

Let's finish with a quote from one of our most recent war criminals.
“I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn't do my job.” –George W. Bush

I believe in God but I don't find the need to shove my belief down other people's throats, just like some. I have a good life as well. I guess it's a matter of point of view.