Secrets Of The Craft From A Master Mason!

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posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Wow network dude! you really know how to wield a circular argument. Obviously, you are your own master. Why esle would all your arguments revolve around your own opinion. I checked your posts and threads, and there are many. I have news for you; there is a high degree of probability that you are completely wrong about a great many things. The truth is you just don't know- just like the rest of us.




posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by artistpoet
 


Entered Aprentice.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdDegree
reply to post by artistpoet
 


Entered Aprentice.


Ah - Thank you for explaining EA -
I will Google the term to read a little of it



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 


I have no problems with those things you listed that are your beliefs. I do have a problem with "ANY"organization
that hints at secrecy any fraternity, group, church... well you get the Idea. Hey, didn't JFK say something about secret groups weeks before he was assassinated?



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by artistpoet
 


The Entered Apprentice is the first degree in Freemasonry. It's the first step on the journey to true Masonic light. Any information given to you beyond what I have told you is either a lie or someone has broken a holy & sacred oath. I will flirt with the line of what can & can not be said without crossing is as much as I can. To continue any learning on the process of becomeing a Mason you should really do the proper way. Asking specifics about degrees crosses the line of what I will & will not say.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by SmertSpionam1I have no problems with those things you listed that are your beliefs. I do have a problem with "ANY"organization
that hints at secrecy any fraternity, group, church... well you get the Idea. Hey, didn't JFK say something about secret groups weeks before he was assassinated?
No. He didn't. He asked the press to keep MORE secrets two and a half years before he was assassinated. Read the whole speech, not the one chopped up and remixed by conspiracy theorists with an agenda.

(Edit to add, by quick, back of the napkin math, JFK was killed 134 weeks after he made the speech. So technically, he was killed "weeks" after he made it, but by the same token, he was killed "seconds" after he made it... just a very large number of seconds...)
edit on 2012.3.14 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:12 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdDegree
Asking specifics about degrees crosses the line of what I will & will not say.
That is your prerogative. In my jurisdiction, the charge and some of the symbol definitions are monitorial, and thus not cypher material. The specifics of the actual degree wording is secret, but there's a lot that can be discussed without breaking oaths.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


Same here. I don't mind answering a lot of questions & before my initation I was really inquisitive. So early on I learned where the lines were that I could not cross, but I could get kind of close to.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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In my opinion, the only secrets the masons have kept to themselves are the secrets of mathematics and geometry.

I'm reading a book right now (non-fiction, non-tin-foil hat book) about the history of mathematics and well before masons ever existed, there was a deliberate conspiracy by the priest castes of ancient times to keep math and geometry from the masses. Too much coin in it, being able to predict scary things like eclipses.

I only wonder of the masons are complicit, somehow, in someway, in promulgating this ancient agenda.

Devil worshippers? Unlikely. Illuminati trying to kill us all? Doubtful. Keeping sacred knowledge to themselves? If the masonic order were truly about helping mankind, the order would divulge it's mathematical teachings so that other men can "learn to fish," as it were. The stuff is highly guarded, however, so I think that there's definitely an agenda there, it's just nice that it coincides with helping others.

That's just, like, my opinion, man.

As an aside, I have a sneaky hunch that ancient masons either found something remarkable at Giza (like, in a hollow capstone or something) or placed/encoded their secrets within the ancient tomb itself. Which is why the masonic order makes so many nods to ancient Egypt in their architecture.

Most people are totally unaware of what you can do with a square, compass and plum line.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdDegree
reply to post by artistpoet
 


The Entered Apprentice is the first degree in Freemasonry. It's the first step on the journey to true Masonic light. Any information given to you beyond what I have told you is either a lie or someone has broken a holy & sacred oath. I will flirt with the line of what can & can not be said without crossing is as much as I can. To continue any learning on the process of becomeing a Mason you should really do the proper way. Asking specifics about degrees crosses the line of what I will & will not say.


Thanks for the info - Yes some Masons have broken their sacred oaths - yet the information they give I take with a pinch of salt for there are ulterior motives to consider.
However I am not against any individual or society keeping secrets - it is their right to do so - Often discretion or secretiveness is required to protect from undermining and sabotage or even worse as the Knights Templar's found.
By the way your name Third degree - Does the saying "To be given the third degree" stem from your craft?



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
 


*why aren't Mormons allowed to be members of masonry? is it that you guys feel as there is a competition between the two?

*who exactly is the "creator" that you refer to? by name.

*why should society allow anyone whom has been sworn under a secretive oath to run for president(and swear to another oath) or any high position of power. ?

*in your mind does donating a million dollars a day, justify all the child sacrifices. and genocide caused by any member of a secretive club.?

*what secrets of the universe have you have found that you could not found on your own.?

*why would anyone wanna join a secretive club that humiliates you during the initiation and higher degrees to keep you in bondage and make you feel accepted?

sorry i am assuming you are in the higher degrees if not. no response needed.
most that are at the bottom are clueless to whats going on.

edit on 14-3-2012 by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by artistpoet
 


I'm not entirely sure because the general expression "given the third degree" means someone has been questioned. In Masonry to receive the third degree means to become a Master Mason. This is pure speculation but it takes time & efford to be found worthy of the third degree & if we understand the expression "given the third degree" to mean your being tested I could possibly see parallels, but I have no real information to support it. Also in Masonry the Third Degree is a great honor & the phrase "given the third degree" has a negative connotation. I suppose it could be possible but I really don't have any provable knowledge or personal knowledge of weather it comes from us or not. I never thought of it before.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by ThirdDegree
 


Fair enough - Yes being "Given the third degree" does have negative connotations - Images of bright spotlights and interrogation - Though I did not interpret it in that way regarding Freemasonry. I pictured being deeply questioned to see if one was worthy of the honor you speak of. I am only assuming that the questioning is also a process of self questioning.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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reply to post by DaWhiz
 


I certainly would not hold any allegiance to these bretheren if what you say is true.
Remember, I said there are jerks wherever you go and that includes the Masons.
But we have rules, and murder is a nono.
I most probably would have helped these men to their cell however.
It is rumored that jack the ripper was a Mason as well, history cannot prove this for one reason or another.
Jack also stopped his crimes suddenly, and never did them again.
Maybe his lodge took care of business more cleanly than the courts would have and much cheaper too.
One thing is for certain, at the end of the night, the Masons always tidy up the lodge.

Can a Mason be a bad person?
Sure he can.
However it is much harder to be bad in the presence of good men.
Just like spaghetti, the more of us you put together, the harder we are to break!



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 01:52 PM
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Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
*why aren't Mormons allowed to be members of masonry? is it that you guys feel as there is a competition between the two?
Masonry has no problem with Mormons joining. And to the best of my knowledge, Mormons don't have a problem with their members becoming Masons. From what I understand there's a fair amount of parallel between some of the ritual work, which isn't too surprising considering the principal founders of the Mormon church were Masons.


*who exactly is the "creator" that you refer to? by name.
I call him God. But my brother Mohammed may call him Allah. And Bro. Finklestein may call him Jehova. We agree not to argue about what His name is (in fact, God told Moses "I am that I am"). So we call Him the Grand Architect of the Universe, but that's not a name, so much as a description of what He has done.


*why should society allow anyone whom has been sworn under a secretive oath to run for president(and swear to another oath) or any high position of power. ?
For the same reason that any churchgoing individual should be allowed to run for office.


*in your mind does donating a million dollars a day, justify all the child sacrifices. and genocide caused by any member of a secretive club.?
What child sacrifices? What genocide? And by which members who you can prove to be Masons?


*what secrets of the universe have you have found that you could not found on your own.?
None, but it's nicer to walk a path with a friend, or with someone who's travelled that way before you and can offer guidance than to try to do it on your own.


*why would anyone wanna join a secretive club that humiliates you during the initiation and higher degrees to keep you in bondage and make you feel accepted?
There is no hazing in Masonic ritual. You're confusing us with college frats.


sorry i am assuming you are in the higher degrees if not. no response needed.
most that are at the bottom are clueless to whats going on.
And yet, you, who's not even a member, seem to know everything? Many of the Masonic ATS members here are "high level" depending on what your criteria for such is. But then again, you have no idea how to even begin to define high level...

Edit to add: including the chopped up JFK speech is further proof of your own ignorance. I linked to the full text of the speech a few replies above this, and it has been discussed to death on ATS. Don't believe the edits of a conspiracy theorist, read the entire text of the speech yourself and you'll see that he was calling for MORE secrecy, in the wake of the failed Bay of Pigs invasion.
edit on 2012.3.14 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by guavas
 


Name of the book please as I am in dire straights for a good read and this stuff just fascinates me.
I will say on the Math and Geometry suppression, it was all learning that was frowned upon as a stupid people are easy to fool....err rule.
This is one reason that some of us in the Masonic community believe the public schools are the foundation of our country's greatness.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by cointelprotroll
reply to post by network dude
 


Wow network dude! you really know how to wield a circular argument. Obviously, you are your own master. Why esle would all your arguments revolve around your own opinion. I checked your posts and threads, and there are many. I have news for you;there is a high degree of probability that you are completely wrong about a great many things. The truth is you just don't know- just like the rest of us.


I have no doubt that I may be wrong about most things. But I am having a real hard time seeing how my statement to you could be circular? Please correct me if I am wrong, but you said: "At your level of participation, it is harmless. So what are you saying master mason; There are no things that you are unawhere of? No secret is kept from you? do you even know who your true master is? You sound Naieve"

to which I replied "Ahahahah!!!!

Thanks for the great belly laugh! The guy who has spent years inside, wait, let me say this again, INSIDE, knows less than some keyboard bandit on the interwebs.

BTW, who is my true master? And be careful not to bait me."

I was referring to your assumption that you were speaking to a low level masons who must be unaware of the "higher up's", an argument that is circular in it's entirety.

Please tell me you see the hipocricy of an outsider telling a member of masonry that he isn't high enough in the order to know the secrets you "know".

Most of us here are members who are more active than most, and a few here are at the top of their structure and have knowledge that takes years to acquire.

We as masons don't expect anyone to truly know what is going on inside our organization, we didn't truly know until we joined. And even then we had a good bit of learning to do before we could understand a bunch of it. But the trick is, we did join, and we did learn, and we do understand.

Could there be some secret group where the top 1% of masons secretly do other things? maybe, I doubt it, but I cannot say for sure. But you cannot either. Just as you cannot say your parents weren't part of a secret government program, but never told you. If I was to try to tell you all about how you had been fooled by them and obviously never gained their total trust, I would be overstepping my bounds a bit no? And you, living in their house would have a much better grasp of their habits than a complete stranger.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by g146541
This is one reason that some of us in the Masonic community believe the public schools are the foundation of our country's greatness.
I agree, though lately I've been reading Seth Godin's latest book and he argues that public schools were started as a way to create interchangeable laborers in the height of the industrial revolution.

The common school (now called a public school) was a brand new concept, created shortly after the Civil War. “Common” because it was for everyone, for the kids of the farmer, the kids of the potter, and the kids of the local shopkeeper. Horace Mann is generally regarded as the father of the institution, but he didn’t have to fight nearly as hard as you would imagine—because industrialists were on his side. The two biggest challenges of a newly industrial economy were finding enough compliant workers and finding enough eager customers. The common school solved both problems.

The normal school (now called a teacher’s college) was developed to indoctrinate teachers into the system of the common school, ensuring that there would be a coherent approach to the processing of students. If this sounds parallel to the notion of factories producing items in bulk, of interchangeable parts, of the notion of measurement and quality, it’s not an accident.

The world has changed, of course. It has changed into a culture fueled by a market that knows how to mass-customize, to find the edges and the weird, and to cater to what the individual demands instead of insisting on conformity.

Mass customization of school isn’t easy. Do we have any choice, though? If mass production and mass markets are falling apart, we really don’t have the right to insist that the schools we designed for a different era will function well now.

Those who worry about the nature of schools face a few choices, but it’s clear that one of them is not business as usual. One option is smaller units within schools, less industrial in outlook, with each unit creating its own varieties of leaders and citizens. The other is an organization that understands that size can be an asset, but only if the organization values customization instead of fighting it.

The current structure, which seeks low-cost uniformity that meets minimum standards, is killing our economy, our culture, and us.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 02:08 PM
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I think some people take the whole conspiracy thing a bit too far. To the point of being semi-delusional. I have seen no evidence that Masons are attempting to take over the world, or do anything nefarious really. What evidence, for those proponents of this idea, is available?

I think some people see that there are powerful people who are in the fraternity, so they think that the group as a whole has some ultimate agenda it is working toward. Also, the fact that it is "secret" seems to send conspiracy nuts into overdrive. And I am not referring to the majority of us when I say "conspiracy nut". Most of us are levelheaded, and believe what the evidence shows us.

Just because a bunch of powerful people have been members of a secret club doesn't mean ANYTHING like what some are implying. It is more of a fraternal organization, and because of that some people get the "brotherly" aspect from being a member.

Others probably enjoy the status associated with being a member, since as we know, high placed officials have been members throughout history. There is a certain amount of prestige for some members is all I am saying. I will admit that the connections one can make within the group itself could lead to happenings outside of the group itself, but that has nothing to do with the Masons.

That has only to do with certain members. Since when does the belief and actions of a few represent the entire organization they are a part of? So all in all, I agree with what the OP is saying. When it comes down to it, despite the weird rituals and secrecy, they are a positive force in the world. People tend to fear and speculate when they do not know or understand something, and because they are not a part of the group they let their imaginations run rampant coming up with theories and ideas as to WHY the group is secret.

I think this is an epic psychological truth that comes to light about any group that is selective and secret. They aren't secret about the group really though, if you think about it. All they do is keep their rituals and what not secret. I'm not a member btw, but from what I can see, the whole point of the organization is to help members better themselves, and therefore better humanity as a whole in the long run. Good thread, as this needed to be spelled out for those who need to take a break and step back from their imaginations.

So show me the hard proof if there is something nefarious going on. Where is it?



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


According to some other Mason on this thread there appears to be a loop hole that would allow for Satanic members to join but not agnostic folks?



1) Believe in a higher being. If you don't believe in a creator and someone that watches over this existence we call life, you can not be a Mason.


Someone who Worships Satan would believe that Satan is a higher being , so would they be allowed to join?

However, someone that is uncertain of the existence of a higher being do to lack of scientific evidence to back up such a claim would not be allowed to join?




As for Satan, again... we don't ask, and we don't mandate


Is that correct? Mason believe its irrelevant who you worship, as long as you worship something regardless the lack of scientific evidence or its core believe system?





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