Secrets Of The Craft From A Master Mason!

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by Scilon
Again, it's the secrecy behind it which continues to turn me off. This is 2012 and very soon we will begin to demand disclosure from all sorts of cabals and hand shake clubs.

Are you going to sew some yellow stars on our coats? Are you going to ask us to all wait in the rail cars while you "process" us? Look Adolph, it's sad that in the year 2012 with the invention of the Google (thanks Al Gore) and all the information that is out there, people still throw empty words around like this.

You are free to prove me wrong. Just give up some names of the leaders whom we "Placed". Tell the world who is in power and is a freemason.

I am sorry you didn't get enough hugs and kisses as a kid. But life is too short to spend time and effort spewing silly lies and made up stories. Do a bit of unbiased research and take the Bible blinders off. That book is much better read, than used for your purposes.

edit on 13-3-2012 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus won't share his beer

We got a saying in our lodge

"Priniciples before personalities"....unfortunately, fear tends to get the upper hand and we hide behind personality. I know I do---sometimes.

reply to post by Scilon

What most troubles me is the condescension your brotherhood uses to peer down on us, the non-masons. You rapidly degenerate into insult and dismissal, assuming I have not done my research and that anyone opposing your secret club must be an ignorant wretch. You create your own enemies, one post, one response at a time when instead you should all be changing tac to help the non-masons understand why it is we should look at you with anything other than suspicion. As for your grand public works, the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club also does a fair amount of charity, but that does not detract from the FACT that they are a ruthless and criminal exclusive cabal.

I am a former Mason. You could not be further from the truth.

I went through 32 degrees, joined the Shrine and took in a 'Pote's Picnic'.... But stopped short of buying the fez.

Why? Because I was looking for some of the nefarious crap you are supposing is going on in the fraternity. There is none of that.

The reality of it is , the higher you go, the more time, effort and money you put in to the fraternity. What you put in goes to help poor crippled children for the most part. Any lodge that I attended was anything but fancy. No gold, no real jewels and pretty plain food afterwards.

Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo

Again, we don't limit your beliefs to anything.

We don't discriminate. You have to know your adversary to discriminate. We don't even ask.

Please, send your bias somewhere else.

Didn't you say:
"The don't ask, they only mandate you believe in something higher than yourself*. "
What proof do you have that something higher than humans exists? Would you allow people in that worship Satan?

*I assume when you said "yourself" you were referring to higher being than humans and not me literally.

I'm not biased, I just think its a silly limitation within your organization which discredits it for me.

Like I said you have the right to pick who you let in the club. However, why do you need to believe in something higher than yourself to be part of the club, when there is no proof besides your gut feeling to back it up?

Originally posted by butcherguy
The reality of it is , the higher you go, the more time, effort and money you put in to the fraternity. What you put in goes to help poor crippled children for the most part.

All great things! So why would you want to limit(exclude memberships) people from doing those things?

Originally posted by interupt42

Again, we don't limit your beliefs to anything.

We don't discriminate. You have to know your adversary to discriminate. We don't even ask.

Please, send your bias somewhere else...

Didn't you say:
"The don't ask, they only mandate you believe in something higher than yourself*. "
What proof do you have that something higher than humans exists? Would you allow people in that worship Satan?

*I assume when you said "yourself" you were referring to higher being than humans and not me literally.

I'm not biased, I just think its a silly limitation within your organization which discredits it for me.

Like I said you have the right to pick who you let in the club. However, why do you need to believe in something higher than yourself to be part of the club, when there is no proof besides your gut feeling to back it up?

I never said I had any proof.

I never said you had to believe what I do.

I never said my god was your god.

I simply said I believe in something higher than myself.

If that is a sin, judge me as I stand.

Edit: As for Satan, again... we don't ask, and we don't mandate.

To each their own. I know this is a hard concept to understand, but look at the founding fathers.

Equal rights for all, whether Christian, Pagan, Muslim, or Satanist.

If they are making the world better, and not harming others, who cares?

Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo

I simply said I believe in something higher than myself.

If that is a sin, judge me as I stand.

I can't judge you because you could be right, I have not seen any proof for it or against it. No one without a doubt can prove or say honestly that there is something higher than ourselves.

IMO any club that requires you to accept a gut feeling (faith) as truth for a requirement, is not much of a cerebral organization for me.

In addition I'm not to keen on joining organizations, agreeing to anything , or getting involved with any organization that I don't fully understand their cause. I think you guys and gals do a lot of good work, but that is not an uncommon disguise for evil doers. Majority of time its the nicest and most trustworthy people that do the most Heinous of crimes (priest,family members,teachers,etc).

I'm a little skeptical of the Mason organization , since most Mason say there purpose is to do good. However, they like limit who can join their organization and keep internal secrets based on the rank you achieve or the amount of time and money you dedicate.

Kind of like Scientology and the higher you go up the more secrets you get and the more time and money you spend. Sounds like a good scam to get into peoples pocket but at least the Mason appear to give back to the Children. I just don't like getting suckered even if it is for a good cause.

By any chance was L Ron Hubbard a Mason?

If Nancy Pelosi was a Mason she would tell her new members
"You need to dedicate time and money to find out what we are about"

double post

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo

I simply said I believe in something higher than myself.

If that is a sin, judge me as I stand.

I can't judge you because you could be right, I have not seen any proof for it or against it. No one without a doubt can prove or say honestly that there is something higher than ourselves.

IMO any club that requires you to accept a gut feeling (faith) as truth for a requirement, is not much of a cerebral organization for me.

In addition I'm not to keen on joining organizations, agreeing to anything , or getting involved with any organization that I don't fully understand their cause. I think you guys and gals do a lot of good work, but that is not an uncommon disguise for evil doers. Majority of time its the nicest and most trustworthy people that do the most Heinous of crimes (priest,family members,teachers,etc).

I'm a little skeptical of the Mason organization , since most Mason say there purpose is to do good. However, they like limit who can join their organization and keep internal secrets based on the rank you achieve or the amount of time and money you dedicate.

Kind of like Scientology and the higher you go up the more secrets you get and the more time and money you spend. Sounds like a good scam to get into peoples pocket but at least the Mason appear to give back to the Children. I just don't like getting suckered even if it is for a good cause.

Now, while I judge Scientologists as a cult, that is neither here nor there.

The fact that they have covered-up numerous murders is neither here nor there, as is the Catholic church. Both are guilty.

And as for Masons having to spend money to see higher degrees, refer to my other post.

There are only three degrees of Masonry. Anything past that is the Scottish Rite or the York Rite.

And in the York Rite, you promise to uphold and defend the principles of Christianity... hence why so many go the Scottish route.

Again, if you have any questions... PM me.

On the topic of who can join... if we see wickedness in you, you will be barred from joining. It is as simple as that.

Again, I love all people that live life for the right reasons... I have met numerous $cifags (now you should know my stance) that are GREAT people. I do not judge the majority based on the minority.

That is the whole reason of this topic.

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by butcherguy
The reality of it is , the higher you go, the more time, effort and money you put in to the fraternity. What you put in goes to help poor crippled children for the most part.

All great things! So why would you want to limit(exclude memberships) people from doing those things?

I don't want to.

My post includes this word, FORMER.

By the same token, who is preventing you from founding your own chain of Children's Hospitals? Who is limiting you? When parents have a child that needs free surgeries, do they come to your doorstep for assistance? I'm sure they don't.......
But maybe they should, since you presume to tell them how the Masonic groups should run their organizations.......
Those children should come to you, since you know better!
Come on! Step up! Show those Masons the correct way to do it!

reply to post by interupt42

"You need to dedicate time and money to find out what we are about"

You've written the answer to your own question.

The dedication of time and money is what they are all about.

The only way that a man may better himself is to give of himself.

reply to post by Scilon


I am a Pagan Mason here, although not gay or a lawyer.
However I would like to know more of these "crimes and more sinister side" of Masonry please.
I have been unaware of this in my almost 10 years in the craft.
My home lodge being most probably the wealthiest lodge in Kalifornia, has given away tens of thousands in scholarships and the same in charity, not to mention personal time or out of pocket donations to a random hat collection for any emergency cause.
Have I ever met a jerk Mason? Sure but that jerk would give me the shirt off of his back and I'd do the same for him.
Masonry other than believing in a supreme being only asks that you love your fellow man as you would your Brother.
I have seen no ill intent in any of my travels.

I understand the higher power thing. I think everyone needs to understand that there are those more powerful then themselves. I also think making society a better place for everyone is an admirable goal.

Masons I believe generally raise money for charities. Thus much, but I have no idea what percentage, actually comes from outside parties. It's all good, but I also believe Bernie Madoff and other notorious criminals also gave much to charity. It means absolutely nothing in itself although I am glad you do some good.

The biggest reason I think people are leery of masonic organizations is due to a couple of reasons;

One is the levels of secrecy involved. You admit there are rituals of mysticsm, etc. that you can't reveal. This means there MUST be an alterior motive that is not public. To most people that can think a bit, this means there is much more to the Masons than just a bunch of guys getting together to do good deeds.

The other issue is the closed membership. I think if your organization wa simply dedicated to improving the world, you would welcome all those that have that same mission. Despite being active in helping in the community i have never been approached to be a Mason. If it is how you describe it, I would like to be a member. Since I have probaly come across multiple Masons in the Community who are aware of the help I am willing to provide, I have never been invited in. Not sure why, because I should qualify on every standard you have put forth. Again it makes me think there is much more to it.

I must say that the only time I really think of the Masons is when a thread comes up on ATS. I often wonder who really is behind screwing the world - but Masons never really come to mind, though I'm sure many behind it are Masons.

If it is really just the good fight that Masons are fighting, then bring it out in the open and involve as many people as you can!

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo


From what I have gathered you seem to be saying that Freemasonry is more akin to a Philosophy and Philosophical discussion and exploration of ideas whilst assisting those outside and within your circle.
Many who are not Masons also hold the same ideas such as you have stated.
Or am I wrong in my simple analysis ?

reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

Despite being active in helping in the community i have never been approached to be a Mason.

You will not be approached, as Masons do not actively recruit members.

In your next sentence, you have expressed interest in becoming a Mason. That is what you must do. It is your job to seek it, that is how it works.

If you are serious, look for a Masonic ring on a finger. Chances are you already know someone that is a Mason. When you think you have found one, ask them if they are a Mason. They will answer your truthfully if they are. When you find one, tell them that you want to be one, they will take the next step and get you on your way to what you seek.

reply to post by butcherguy


It used to be that way, 2B1ASK1.
But a few years ago, (In Kalifornia at least) it was changed as Masonry as a whole is dying.
I knew from an early age I wanted to be a Mason, as all of the men I knew were and they were cool guys who spoke well of the fraternity.
But nowadays with the breakdown of families and family values it makes it harder to find good men who might be interested, so now we in Kali can recruit.

Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by butcherguy
The reality of it is , the higher you go, the more time, effort and money you put in to the fraternity. What you put in goes to help poor crippled children for the most part.

All great things! So why would you want to limit(exclude memberships) people from doing those things?

I don't want to.

My post includes this word, FORMER.

By the same token, who is preventing you from founding your own chain of Children's Hospitals? Who is limiting you? When parents have a child that needs free surgeries, do they come to your doorstep for assistance? I'm sure they don't.......
But maybe they should, since you presume to tell them how the Masonic groups should run their organizations.......
Those children should come to you, since you know better!
Come on! Step up! Show those Masons the correct way to do it!

edit on 13-3-2012 by butcherguy because: And no limits on membership in your organization!

You couldn't be further from the truth or what I have said. I simply asked you a question?

I never said anything about how the Masonic group should run its organization. On the contrary see my previous posts, where I said its their right to run it as they chose as well as their right to pick who they let join.
However, its also my right to not join them and it is also my right to question their motives especially since some things involved with the organization don't add up for me. That is why I asked you the question:
If their motive is to help humanity then why do they limit who can join the cause and why do you have to believe in a greater being to be part of it? Are agnostic people or those that don't believe in a greater being not worthy of helping others?

reply to post by butcherguy

What if someone was so poor that they could not afford the joining fee yet wished to become a Mason
Is there any type of concession for such a person?

Originally posted by butcherguy
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

 

Despite being active in helping in the community i have never been approached to be a Mason.

You will not be approached, as Masons do not actively recruit members.

In your next sentence, you have expressed interest in becoming a Mason. That is what you must do. It is your job to seek it, that is how it works.

If you are serious, look for a Masonic ring on a finger. Chances are you already know someone that is a Mason. When you think you have found one, ask them if they are a Mason. They will answer your truthfully if they are. When you find one, tell them that you want to be one, they will take the next step and get you on your way to what you seek.

I was under the impression that you needed to be invited in and that you couldn't solicit your own invitation. I'll start looking for rings.

Seriously, just how secret are they, anyway?

They wear rings on their fingers, cufflinks, tie tacks... Even ties and suspenders emblazoned with Masonic emblems. They have medallions on the bumpers of their cars! Oh look! I am a super secret Mason.

The rites and rituals have been available for years as printed matter, and is now available on the Internet.

It is simply that you have to actually be a member to be in a lodge that has been opened that is the limitation. Oooooh, the super secret guys drove in their emblem emblazoned cars to a building that is pretty plain.... But still has a big Masonic emblem on it, a sign out front and a spot on google maps telling where it can be found! OMG! You can set outside and look at who goes in and who comes out.... They don't wear hoods or masks! Hell, you can take pictures of them! They won't mind.

Some secret.

reply to post by YouAreLiedTo


Nothing like an exempt club from G-d that is exclusive and secret. No discriminations and nothing to be accountable for. Wow your description says everything. Reverance to nothing but the forces that have manipulated and lied to man from the beginning of time. The spirit of deception rules well here I see.

This is so typical of how satan works. Accepting of everything without discernment or conviction of truth amidst the destruction of each other's souls under the guise of love, acceptance, good works and non-discrimination.

In the end there exists one truth. It's better to discover that while you still have time to.