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Originally posted by Scilon
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
Okay, to clarify my point.
I utterly respect and recognize the ancestry, status and influence of Freemasonry. In a time of darkness the Order managed to help crush despotic Monarchies both in America and France. However, the Monarchy in England still reigns despite the commonly told fantasy that they wield no power. I recognize and appreciate Freemasonry for dispelling the aged and useless system of Monarchy.
However, I do begrudge the new Order which has replaced it and left the world in as frantic a state as ever. Instead of rulers with Crown and Scepter we have rulers with Code and Password. Added to that is secrecy. This is not an ideal situation for those outside the order to be placed in,
For my part, I am against all secret orders, societies, mystery religions and shadow cabals, not from a hostile stand point but in the same way that I am against the various warring hierarchical cults who have our nations in their fanatics' grip.
Originally posted by Scilon
reply to post by KSigMason
ATS FREEMASONS PLEASE READ CAREFULLY BEFORE YOU RESPOND.
I never once called Freemasonry a criminal group. You are delusional and prone to vitriolic attacks.
It's now 2012 and we still allow secretive self-interested groups and organizations to place members into high places. Anyone who remains unaware of the crimes and more sinister side of Masonry at this point is either willingly lying or woefully ignorant of the Organizations history.
Originally posted by capod2t
reply to post by Scilon
For my part, I am against all secret orders, societies, mystery religions and shadow cabals, not from a hostile stand point but in the same way that I am against the various warring hierarchical cults who have our nations in their fanatics' grip.
If I may kindly ask, are you against college fraternities also? The Jesuits? Girl Scouts? How 'bout the Black Caucus?
Fact is, there is myriad clubs and organizations throughout the world with varying missions and interests.
Had the Catholics, once empowered by the Romans, not literally exterminated the gnostics and mystics around the world, such practices would not have had to go underground. The Masons and Rosicrucian Order are just examples of many others.
BTW - I was raised Catholic.
Bless your heart friend. I wish you well.
Facing the East,
Capo
Originally posted by interupt42
reply to post by YouAreLiedTo
All good things, but one great error in judgment I see wrong with the Masons is that they don't accept those who are truthful to themselves and others.
While it’s great that you accept all forms of religion you are discriminating without any factual evidence against those people who are honest enough to say to themselves and others “that we as humans have no idea if a greater power TRULY exist (GOD)”. As far as I know it’s just a gut feeling(faith) when it comes down to it and no scientific evidence to back it up either way. Therefore, only the Agnostic believers are accurate when it comes down to it and are brave enough to accept the fact that we just don't know the REAL truth. Yet, you chose to discriminate against them?
Sounds silly to me, that you would want your members to be illogical and just blindly accept something as the truth without factual evidence to back it up. Even sillier is the fact you would be willing to accept contradicting religions which suggest some of them have to be wrong. Then again, most cults and con-men thrive on the weak and gullible.
Either Masons are up to no good and hiding behind their good deeds or there are a bunch of average intelligence people getting together in a club in order to try to inflate their own virtual superiority? Kind of the King of the Dip$hit scenario.
edit on 13-3-2012 by interupt42 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo
The don't ask, they only mandate you believe in something higher than yourself.
Do you believe humans are the highest being in the universe?
Either you believe that humans are the peak of evolution, or you believe in a higher being.
It's really as simple as that.
Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo
Just make sure you leave this world better than you were born into, and you have don your part.
Originally posted by interupt42
Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo
The don't ask, they only mandate you believe in something higher than yourself.
Do you believe humans are the highest being in the universe?
Either you believe that humans are the peak of evolution, or you believe in a higher being.
It's really as simple as that.
Although, I highly doubt that humans are the peak of evolution ( really hope that we are not. ) I couldn't honestly say without a doubt that we are not. I have no way of proving it and therefore I couldn't honestly say to myself nor others that we are not as good as it gets. As far as I know nobody has scientific prove in either scenario?
My gut feeling is that we are not the peak of evolution. However, I can't ignore the fact that I have no evidence to back it up and it would be silly of me to discriminate against someone else who has a different gut feeling.
Its your clubs right to chose who you let in and there is nothing wrong with letting people in with the same believe system. However, believing in something doesn't make it the truth.
IMO accepting a gut feeling as proof enough to discriminate against others gut feeling is a limitation of logic.