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New Footage 9/11 Second Tower Explosion Incredibly Clear Video From Helicopter - Where Is The Plane?

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posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 07:42 AM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Anunaki10
 

Support this assertion with facts:

witnesses have been threatened to silence or killed


So you don't understand English, huh? Then don't you think you're wasting your time here? www.abovetopsecret.com... Take a look at page 42 "reply posted on 16-3-2012 @ 07:31 PM by Anunaki10" there you the answer. But since you have problems understanding the English language then let me repeat this to you RIGHT in YOUR freaking FACE: in this Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy theory - Pentagon TV documentary witnesses tells their experiences, from about 4:15 Charles Lewis confirm that "the highest level" ordered NORAD to "stand down", that NORAD had indeed been notified but they were ordered to "stand down", and from about 5:20 Charles Lewis confirmed it was "the highest level" of the White House that ORDERED the "stand down", from about 5:45 Charles Lewis confirm that Pentagon was NOT hit by a 757, but a "missile" that hit Pentagon, from about 11:45 NASA structural engineer Dwain Deets explains that the 757 does NOT fit in the hole of Pentagon's building, there were NO "engine holes" Pentagon's building that fit 757's engines at either, and there are usually lots of Cameras at and near Pentagon to film everything at and near Pentagon, but the film footages of Pentagon of that day of September 11 was CONFISCATED except the short footage of the explosion of Pentagon's middle section (from about 13:00), and strange thing is that that short footage does NOT show or mention ANYTHING about ANY 757, and from about 17:00 pilot Rob Balsamo confirm that there is NO WAY that the alleged hijacker could control a 757, and from about 22:30 they confirm that the only bodies they found were Pentagon employees, but there were NO BODIES of PASSENGERS from ANY 757 at Pentagon area, and from about 23:20 Pentagon Employee April Gallop who worked at the Pentagon building that day she confirm she heard a "Bomb" exploding, April Gallop explained she NEVER saw ANY airplane crash, and from about 26:00 April Gallop said that she and her son were recovering from their injuries when she got visited by the Military who tried to "convince" her it was not a bomb, and from about 26:35 into this interview, April Gallop claim she have been THREATENED by the Military leaders who told her to keep her mouth shut!...

Do you have a problem to try to udnerstand what's going on PRIVATE 'ProudBird' freak? Are you still STRUGGLING to try to understand this? Let me repeat it to you RIGHT in YOUR freaking FACE: Pentagon employee April Gallop have been THREATENED by the Military leaders who told her to keep her mouth shut!...

I also presented this Mysterious Deaths of 9/11 Witnesses (MUST SEE) during this thread, if you bothered to follow what's going on here, but it seems YOU DON'T KNOW what's going on here...

Here is a list of the mysterious deaths of 911 witnesses: imaginativeworlds.com...

Barry Jennings (Eyewitness to explosions and bodies inside WTC7) -- Undisclosed causes

Kenneth Johannemann (Eyewitness to explosions inside WTC, Saw no airplanes hit but just saw "floors blow up") -- Gunshot to the head, ruled a suicide

Beverly Eckert (Wife of 9/11 WTC Victim, Earwitness to WTC Explosion, Refused hush money) -- Airplane crash

Prasanna Kalahasthi (Wife of 9/11 "Flight 11 Passenger") -- Suicide by hanging

David Graham (Dentist who saw three of the 9/11 Hijackers with Pakistani businessman in Shreveport, Louisiana) -- Murdered! (Poisoned with anti-freeze)

Paul Smith (Pilot of WABC7's 9/11 "International Shot" Chopper) -- Car accident

Michael H. Doran (9/11 Victims Lawyer) -- Airplane crash

Bertha Champagne (Longtime babysitter for 911 Perp Marvin Bush's family) -- Crushed by a car

Christopher Landis (Former Operations Manager for Safety Service Patrol for the Virginia Department of Transportation, Interviewed by makers of "The Pentacon", Gave makers of "The Pentacon" a photo collection, Involved in the response to the Pentagon attack) -- Suicide

John P. O'Neill (FBI Counter-terrorism expert, Obsessed with catching Osama Bin Laden, Suspected Clinton/Bush/FBI complicity in the cover-up and protection of Bin Laden) -- Died in the WTC on 9/11

Deborah Palfrey (Ran an escort service that had 911 Perps on it's list) -- Suicide by hanging

David Wherley (US General who ordered fighter jets to scramble on 9/11) -- Train crash

Un-named Ticket Agent (Boston Logan Ticket Agent who checked Atta and Alomari) -- Suicide

Suzanne Jovin (Yale Student who had a thesis about Osama Bin Laden, Her thesis adviser was an intelligence operative) -- Murdered! (Killer unknown)

Perry Kucinich (Brother of Congressman who advocated new 9/11 investigation) -- Fell down

Salvatore Princiotta (9/11 FDNY Firefighter from Ladder 9) -- Murdered!

Ezra Harel (Chairman of the Israeli Company That Handled Security For All 9/11 Airports) -- Heart attack

Bruce Ivins (Patsy in the 9/11-linked "Anthrax" Case) -- Drug overdose
edit on 17-3-2012 by Anunaki10 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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The kitchenfitters for the truth are disingenuious to say the least.
Lets have a look at an AFTT 9/11 video starring an old actor.



Go to 5:40 Richard (D**K to his friends) Gage says the building collapsed in 7 seconds well he needs his butt kicked because his film shows it takes a lot longer than that or it would if it wasn't edited to hide the fact
lets have a look.

Go back to 3:09 on their video look at the roof look at what you see CLOSELY VERY CLOSELY.

Now compare with this video. Go to 2:52



Look at the roof and look at what you see open 2 windows put both windows side by side just in case you can't here is a pic.



The right hand side is a still from the aft lies video if you compare it to the left side from the other video one of the penthouses had already collapsed and was not shown by architects for the lies on their video


Also architects for the lies have reached just over 1600 out of how many worldwide


Architects are more concerned with the look, aesthetics,materials and functions of a building IT'S structural engineers that do the calculations re loadings etc, in fact in MOST structural engineering practices ARCHITECTS are their best customers I WONDER WHY




edit on 17-3-2012 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Anunaki10
 


Support this assertion with facts:


witnesses have been threatened to silence or killed


...or leave.

YOU choose.

Make your 'case'....


top gun pilot instructors who actually flew aircraft involved:
refute
or
Take your own advice?



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 08:50 AM
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reply to post by Anunaki10
 


April Gallop sued the government twice. The military intimidation really worked well.



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by wmd_2008
The kitchenfitters for the truth are disingenuious to say the least.
Lets have a look at an AFTT 9/11 video starring an old actor.



Go to 5:40 Richard (D**K to his friends) Gage says the building collapsed in 7 seconds well he needs his butt kicked because his film shows it takes a lot longer than that or it would if it wasn't edited to hide the fact
lets have a look.

Go back to 3:09 on their video look at the roof look at what you see CLOSELY VERY CLOSELY.

Now compare with this video. Go to 2:52



Look at the roof and look at what you see open 2 windows put both windows side by side just in case you can't here is a pic.



The right hand side is a still from the aft lies video if you compare it to the left side from the other video one of the penthouses had already collapsed and was not shown by architects for the lies on their video


Also architects for the lies have reached just over 1600 out of how many worldwide


Architects are more concerned with the look, aesthetics,materials and functions of a building IT'S structural engineers that do the calculations re loadings etc, in fact in MOST structural engineering practices ARCHITECTS are their best customers I WONDER WHY




edit on 17-3-2012 by wmd_2008 because: (no reason given)


rudeness is no substitute for the facts:
again the Osers obfuscate in a manner remenicent of the vid in the OP


Government apologists have argued that WTC 7 took 13 or more seconds to collapse, thus disproving the "virtual free fall" argument. However, this argument entirely misses the point.

Why?

Because the videos show that the penthouse collapsed long before the main building. In fact, everyone admits that there was a delay of several seconds between the collapse of the penthouse and the collapse of the rest of the building.

"An object at rest tends to stay at rest". So once the movement stopped, it should have stayed stopped.

Therefore, the collapse of the main portion of building 7 - several seconds after the collapse of the penthouse stopped - should be treated as a discrete and new event (see discussion below).

Since the main building collapsed in approximately 7 seconds - the same time as a controlled demolition takes - that is strong evidence that WTC 7 was in fact demolished.

911blogger.com...


debunked NIST



In its July 2008 Draft Report for Public Comment, the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) initially claimed that Building 7 collapsed 40% slower than free fall acceleration.

Why would NIST want to say Building 7 did not experience free fall? NIST’s lead technical investigator, Shyam Sunder, stated in the WTC 7 technical briefing that free fall could only happen when an object “has no structural components below it.”[ii] The only way for a building to have no structural components below it is to remove the lower structural components with an external force such as explosives. If the upper part of a building is crushing its lower structural components, in other words, doing the work of removing them, not all of its energy will be converted into motion and its descent will not be free fall.

A high school physics teacher named David Chandler objected to NIST’s initial claim, pointing out that, based on video footage of Building 7’s destruction, NIST’s claim contradicted “a publicly visible, easily measurable quantity.”[iii] Mr. Chandler wrote a comment to NIST, saying, “Acknowledgement of and accounting for an extended period of free fall in the collapse of WTC 7 must be a priority if NIST is to be taken seriously.”[iv]

Responding to the criticism, NIST in its final report issued in November 2008 did finally acknowledge that Building 7 descended at free fall. According to NIST, “This free fall drop continued for approximately 8 stories, or 32.0 meters (105 ft), the distance traveled between times t = 1.75 s and t = 4.0 s [a period of 2.25 seconds].”[v] However, NIST did not attempt to explain how Building 7’s free fall descent could have occurred.

However, Mr. Chandler does explain how in Part 3 of his video, NIST Finally Admits Freefall, saying:[vi]


rememberbuilding7.org...


just

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


claiming richard gage is some how deficient for his comment that building 7 fell in the timeframe he states, and that that negates the Opinion of some many brave professionals who question the official storIES is somewhat disengenuous...in light of the facts and the context:

I guess if Bob and Doug McKenzie the Canadian comedians were here, they would have a slight variation of the word OSer
their version begins with an H
in the slang vernacular it means to "con"
which was probably the intent of the likely (h)Oser who likely edited the video in the OP
and assuming the poster in the above quote has the expertise he insinuates he has, could also be the intent in the post I am quoting above.
You would think a truly qualifid person would know better then to try flying statements like that.

IMHO it futher reinforces my contention that in the light of failing belief in the OS as shown by the polls I referenced earlier, the OSers have resorted to obfuscation and subterfuge to try to negate the surging acceptance of the questionalty of the OS and its supporters


edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 09:25 AM
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reply to post by Anunaki10
 


Just curious, but in your post above you referred to Charles Lewis who appeared on the Jesse Ventura conspiracy show.

You say that Charles Lewis confirmed a NORAD "stand-down ", confirmed that the order came from the "highest level" of the White House and also confirmed that "the Pentagon was NOT hit by a 757, but a missile".

My problem is that the information I have is that Mr Lewis was employed as a building inspector in Los Angeles on 9/11 so it is not obvious to me why you are putting him forward as an authority on these matters. Can you please explain ?



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 


ummm, maybe it was confirmed by a first person senior staffer?


The stand-down order that Charles Lewis heard about was confirmed by none other than Norman Mineta, transportation secretary at the time.


According to the 9/11 Commission, Cheney didn't arrive underground at the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) until almost 10 AM. Mineta, however, said the Vice President was already down there when he arrived at about 9:20 AM. Richard Clarke and Cheney's photographer indicated the same thing. That was before the Pentagon had been hit, and Mineta recalled a young man coming into the PEOC three times to tell Cheney how far out the plane was from Washington.



After the third report, according to Mineta, the young fellow asked, "Do the orders still stand?" and Cheney responded, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"


The 9/11 Commission chose to ignore Mineta's testimony and went so far as to remove it from the video archive"..read more


www.opednews.com...

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


The collapse of the penthouse and the main building cannot be treated as separate events. The penthouse continued to collapse while not being visible which lead to the remaining main building collapse. Are you suggesting that the penthouse stopped moving and was suspended in mid air?

It is my understanding that the Chandler free fall was of the facade. NIST did not include it until asked by Chandler because it added nothing of relevance to understanding of the initiation of the collapse. Gravity is the main driver of a collapse so observing moments of free fall acceleration are not totally unexpected. Free fall acceleration tends to be observed in the debris fall from the building.



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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Oh look, some incredibly clear new tapes



9/11 Live: The NORAD Tapes
How did the U.S. Air Force respond on 9/11? Could it have shot down United 93, as conspiracy theorists claim? Obtaining 30 hours of never-before-released tapes from the control room of NORAD's Northeast head-quarters, the author reconstructs the chaotic military history of that day—and the Pentagon's apparent attempt to cover it up......

........The story of what happened in that room, and when, has never been fully told, but is arguably more important in terms of understanding America's military capabilities that day than anything happening simultaneously on Air Force One or in the Pentagon, the White House, or norad's impregnable headquarters, deep within Cheyenne Mountain, in Colorado. It's a story that was intentionally obscured, some members of the 9/11 commission believe, by military higher-ups and members of the Bush administration who spoke to the press, and later the commission itself, in order to downplay the extent of the confusion and miscommunication flying through the ranks of the government

The truth, however, is all on tape............

......................In the background, however, you can make out the sound of Jeremy Powell, then 31, a burly, amiable technical sergeant, fielding the phone call that will be the military's first notification that something is wrong. On the line is Boston Center, the civilian air-traffic-control facility that handles that region's high-flying airliners.

08:37:52
BOSTON CENTER: Hi. Boston Center T.M.U. [Traffic Management Unit], we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.
POWELL: Is this real-world or exercise?
BOSTON CENTER: No, this is not an exercise, not a test.

PLAY | PAUSE | STOP

Powell's question—"Is this real-world or exercise?"—is heard nearly verbatim over and over on the tapes as troops funnel onto the ops floor and are briefed about the hijacking. Powell, like almost everyone in the room, first assumes the phone call is from the simulations team on hand to send "inputs"—simulated scenarios—into play for the day's training exercise.



edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: inserted a pertinant re OS obfuscation re TAPE para into the quote



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by huh2142
reply to post by Danbones
 


The collapse of the penthouse and the main building cannot be treated as separate events. The penthouse continued to collapse while not being visible which lead to the remaining main building collapse. Are you suggesting that the penthouse stopped moving and was suspended in mid air?

It is my understanding that the Chandler free fall was of the facade. NIST did not include it until asked by Chandler because it added nothing of relevance to understanding of the initiation of the collapse. Gravity is the main driver of a collapse so observing moments of free fall acceleration are not totally unexpected. Free fall acceleration tends to be observed in the debris fall from the building.


can't be separated?
says who?
it is all explained there ( with references to the structural references)
including the fact that NIST had to change it's STORIES
it also explains the seven second comment that was so spuriously and rudely obfuscated by the poster I quoted
(insults rightbackatcha as they say
...looks the originator of same truly owns them)


The penthouse continued to collapse while not being visible which lead to the remaining main building collapse. Are you suggesting that the penthouse stopped moving and was suspended in mid air?

lets see..
"suspended in mid air"? maybe the penthouse had a building under it..
like the one you say the collapsing penthouse caused to collapse maybe?

you have an understanding?
doesn't look like it according to ummm.... NIST

NIST WTC 7 Investigation Finds Building Fires Caused Collapse

www.nist.gov...

that would certainly explain the lack of references in your post
again further verification of the opinion that if the vid in the op was doctored, it would be commensurate with the
MO of OSERS


edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: fixed quote

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 09:56 AM
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Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Alfie1
 


ummm, maybe it was confirmed by a first person senior staffer?


The stand-down order that Charles Lewis heard about was confirmed by none other than Norman Mineta, transportation secretary at the time.


According to the 9/11 Commission, Cheney didn't arrive underground at the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) until almost 10 AM. Mineta, however, said the Vice President was already down there when he arrived at about 9:20 AM. Richard Clarke and Cheney's photographer indicated the same thing. That was before the Pentagon had been hit, and Mineta recalled a young man coming into the PEOC three times to tell Cheney how far out the plane was from Washington.



After the third report, according to Mineta, the young fellow asked, "Do the orders still stand?" and Cheney responded, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"


The 9/11 Commission chose to ignore Mineta's testimony and went so far as to remove it from the video archive"..read more


www.opednews.com...

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


Perhaps you can direct me to where Mr Mineta confirmed a stand-down order ?

www.youtube.com...



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by Danbones
reply to post by Alfie1
 


ummm, maybe it was confirmed by a first person senior staffer?


The stand-down order that Charles Lewis heard about was confirmed by none other than Norman Mineta, transportation secretary at the time.


According to the 9/11 Commission, Cheney didn't arrive underground at the PEOC (Presidential Emergency Operations Center) until almost 10 AM. Mineta, however, said the Vice President was already down there when he arrived at about 9:20 AM. Richard Clarke and Cheney's photographer indicated the same thing. That was before the Pentagon had been hit, and Mineta recalled a young man coming into the PEOC three times to tell Cheney how far out the plane was from Washington.



After the third report, according to Mineta, the young fellow asked, "Do the orders still stand?" and Cheney responded, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"


The 9/11 Commission chose to ignore Mineta's testimony and went so far as to remove it from the video archive"..read more


www.opednews.com...

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


Perhaps you can direct me to where Mr Mineta confirmed a stand-down order ?

www.youtube.com...


why Certainly Alfie
and more:

Specifically, Mineta claims

from

NATIONAL COMMISSION ON TERRORIST ATTACKS UPON THE UNITED STATES
Public Hearing
Friday, May 23, 2003
Hart Senate Office Building
Room 216
Washington, DC


:www.9-11commission.gov...

"When I got to the White House, it was being evacuated. I met briefly with Richard Clark, a National Security Council staff member, who had no new information. Then the Secret Service escorted me down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, otherwise known as the PEOC."

***

I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"





John Farmer just posted a document from the 9/11 Commission files that strongly supports Norman Mineta's public testimony before the 9/11 Commission. Here is the link:
forums.randi.org...
The document is a Secret Service log from 9/11, and confirms that the Secret Service was tracking American Airlines flight 77 as it approached Washington on September 11, 2001.

Farmer, who pursued the FOIA request for the 9/11 RADES radar data (released in October 2007) explains in his post that the radar data from 9/11 agrees perfectly with the Secret Service timeline. Farmer has the 9/11 radar data in his computer and has made it available to other 9/11 researchers.

The document was first made made public in January 2009 by NARA, along with many other 9/11 Commission files. Erik Larson posted it to Scrib in April 2009, where it may be downloaded:
www.scribd.com...
However, at the time, Erik overlooked the document's importance. Amazingly, it escaped notice for many months.

It may also be downloaded here (this is an easier download):
bluecollarrepublican.files.wordpress.com...

...........I have just received confirmation that the handwriting is actually that of 9/11 Commission staffer Miles Kara, who was granted access to the original Secret Service documents during the commission's official investigation. Kara was not allowed to remove the SS document, however, so he copied it long-hand.

Notice, this means that the 9/11 Commission had this information but chose to bury it, Why? Maybe to cover up for VP Dick Cheney? .


911blogger.com...
and you have what?
another possibly doctored youtube vid?
why not quote the official transcript?

oh wait .....let me guess...
edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: added reference link

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edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: oops moving conclusion from this post to next where it was ment to go



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


You are just dancing around. Where, anywhere, does Mr Mineta acknowledge a NORAD stand-down order ? Please be specific.



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by Danbones
 


You are just dancing around. Where, anywhere, does Mr Mineta acknowledge a NORAD stand-down order ? Please be specific.



its all been referenced in past posts there alfie
the stand down for the whole drill that day is just the first aspect of the stand down

I can't believe you didn't know that being such an expert and all
Mineta's testimony is just a specific aspect of the maintemance of the original "stand down"

again more obfuscation


on the morning of 9/11, the F-16's were performing bombing runs over an empty stretch of the Pine Barrens near Atlantic City after being decommissioned from their usual role of protecting the skies of the east coast.




1) OPERATION NORTHERN VIGILANCE: This was planned months in advance of 9/11 and ensured that on the morning of 9/11, jet fighters were removed from patrolling the US east coast and sent to Alaska and Canada, therefore reducing the amount of fighter planes available to protect the east coast.

2) BIOWARFARE EXERCISE TRIPOD II: Alex Jones first reported on this back in May when Rudolph Giuliani let the details of it slip in his testimony to the 9/11 Commission. FEMA arrived in New York on September 10th to set up a command post located at Pier 29 under the auspices of a 'biowarfare exercise scheduled for September 12. This explains why Tom Kenney of FEMA's National Urban Search and Rescue Team, told Dan Rather of CBS News that FEMA had arrived in New York on the night of September 10th. This was originally dismissed as a slip of the tongue. Giuliani was to use this post as a command post on 9/11 after he evacuated WTC Building 7. As we reported back in January, Giuliani knew when to leave WTC 7 because he got advanced warning that the Trade Towers were about to collapse. "We were operating out of there when we were told that the World Trade Center was gonna collapse," Rudolph Giuliani told Peter Jennings of ABC News. How did Giuliani know the towers were about to collapse when no steel building in history had previously collapsed from fire damage?

3) OPERATION VIGILANT GUARDIAN: This exercise simulated hijacked planes in the north eastern sector and started to coincide with 9/11. Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins, NORAD unit's airborne control and warning officer, was overseeing the exercise. At 8:40am she took a call from Boston Center which said it had a hijacked airliner. Her first words, as quoted by Newhouse News Service were, "It must be part of the exercise." This is another example of how the numerous drills on the morning of 9/11 deliberately distracted NORAD so that the real hijacked planes couldn't be intercepted in time.

4) OPERATION NORTHERN GUARDIAN: The details of this exercise are still scant but it is considered to be part of Vigilant Guardian, relating to simulating hijacked planes in the north eastern sector.

5) OPERATION VIGILANT WARRIOR: This was referenced in Richard Clarke's book 'Against All Enemies'. It is thought to have been the 'attack' component of the Vigilant Guardian exercise.

Another example of how air defenses were purposefully kept preoccupied so they couldn't protect New York was reported by this website in December of 2003. The Air National Guard's 177th Fighter Wing, based at Atlantic City International Airport in Pomona, were just eight minutes away from New York and could have intercepted both Flight 11 and Flight 175.

Under NORAD procedures that date to the Cold War, two F-16 fighters from the 177th were parked around the clock on the Atlantic City runway. Pilots waited in a nearby building, ready to scramble.

But on the morning of 9/11, the F-16's were performing bombing runs over an empty stretch of the Pine Barrens near Atlantic City after being decommissioned from their usual role of protecting the skies of the east coast.


www.prisonplanet.com...

so please alfie
show me how NORAD functioned to the full extent of their mandate that day

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


obfuscation over a phrase..
while the hampering of the national defence system has been demonstrated time after time after time..
infact the fact that 911 even occured is testiment to that...

again it really demonstrates how Obfuscation is one of the main tactics used to support the failing OS..and again suppoets the notion that if the the OS vid was modufied it was modified for that reason as well

if cheney ( the LIER according to testimony and collaboration that you defend) had removed his standing orders then the hijacked plane would have been inercepted and there would have no attack on the pentagon

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: added conclusion

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: there, conclusion moved to correct post



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


So you can't demonstrate that Mr Mineta ever confirmed a NORAD stand-down order.

In fact it was quite the reverse. He testified about fighters being scrambled from Langley and that he learned of a shoot-down order.

Now you want to drift off into cancelled drills, I wonder why.



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by Danbones
 


So you can't demonstrate that Mr Mineta ever confirmed a NORAD stand-down order.

In fact it was quite the reverse. He testified about fighters being scrambled from Langley and that he learned of a shoot-down order.

Now you want to drift off into cancelled drills, I wonder why.



do the orders still stand

what order was that alfie?

where is the transcript referencing your opinion?
and please show that NORAD was functioning as mandated
( i guess the standing order refered to by Mineta was preventing that obviously because they never delt with the aircraft that hit the pentagon...it hit the pentagon)

you haven't....
I wonder why?

you just dance around the reality with semantic obfuscations

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


i repeat alfie
WHAT ORDER WAS THAT ALFIE?
edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 11:01 AM
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Originally posted by Danbones

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by Danbones
 


So you can't demonstrate that Mr Mineta ever confirmed a NORAD stand-down order.

In fact it was quite the reverse. He testified about fighters being scrambled from Langley and that he learned of a shoot-down order.

Now you want to drift off into cancelled drills, I wonder why.



do the orders still stand

what order was that alfie?

where is the transcript referencing your opinion?
and please show that NORAD was functioning as mandated
( i guess the standing order refered to by Mineta was preventing that obviously because they never delt with the aircraft that hit the pentagon...it hit the pentagon)

you haven't....
I wonder why?

you just dance around the reality with semantic obfuscations

edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


i repeat alfie
WHAT ORDER WAS THAT ALFIE?
edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)


Its in the very transcript you posted to me. Had you not read it ?

www.9-11commission.gov...

NORAD's efficiency in responding that day is a large and seperate issue and it has nothing to do with the falsely alleged "stand down" order.



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


You are referring to the ONE person....Ralph Kolstad, right?


top gun pilot instructors who actually flew aircraft involved:


And, actually "flying the aircraft involved" means nothing. A Boeing 757 is identical to all the others, basically....only thing is there are options up to the buyer, as to engine choice, and other details. The BASIC jet remains the same.

He's a poster boy for the "P4T"....and, incredibly wrong. He may have been trotted out to simply give misinformation, or he was originally given misinfo, and then repeated it.

He says the airplanes were flown in a manner that "even he could not".....which is ridiculous!

The oft-cited American 77 turn, overhead the Pentagon.....Kolstad, as a former military pilot, should know full well what an overhead pattern is.....fly over the intended point of landing, then make a descending turn back around to line up to land....only, with American 77, his intent was not to land....still, the technique in the air is the same.

The actual turn made by AAL 77 was a normal, very normal hand-flown right turn, while descending. It happens every day, everywhere in the world. The ONLY aspect of that turn that was outside the "norm" in regular airline operations was the angle of bank.

It reached over 35° a few times....(was variable, the bank angle, because of the pilot's sloppiness). In normal airline operations we limit to 25°, routinely. 30° is the absolute maximum, except in an emergency.

His speed, in that large turn, also varied....but, it was well within normal limits. An average of about 280 knots. This was 'illegal' because of his altitude......in the USA the regulations stipulate a max speed of 250 knots below 10,000 feet MSL. But the hijacker pilot didn't care about regulations, did he??

So, whether at 250 knots, or 280 knots, the turn was exactly normal, and certainly even "Top Gun" Ralph Kolstad could do it, easily.

Is he lying, then? I mean, what pilot in his right mind would claim that he could not make a simple descending turn?? I'd look to motive, with Mr. Kolstad........



posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 


Going on about what? You looking for what?
Need to add more numbers to your post count?



Here, never mind I cant expect you to be honest.

Take a look here: ========>>>>>>>www.youtube.com...


"of course the order still stands, have you heard anything to the contrary!"






posted on Mar, 17 2012 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by ProudBird
 



"flying the aircraft involved" means nothing.

it varifies his credentials publically and gives him standing
which is something you can NOT do PB)



Commander Ralph “Rotten” Kolstad
23,000 hours
27 years in the airlines
B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines.
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice
civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds
Command time in:
- N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77)
- N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 11)

pilotsfor911truth.org...

top gun are the experts not just in flight, but also in this case with all that military xperience, in military procedures

so his honest opinion trumps your opinion
edit on 17-3-2012 by Danbones because: (no reason given)



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