Originally posted by Vsc1981
If these words are words of pagan stories then you are living in a farie tale. I'm not here to change anyones mind nor am trying to judge. Because i keep God's word doesn't make me stupid or dumb. And your going to try and tell me that the Israel of today isn't the Israel that God gave to his chosen people is a ridiculous statement. Jerusalem is in Israel and Jerusalem is in the bible. If you don't take my word then read the bible. All of you thats calling me crazy and stupid read the bible. I challenge to read it. Front to back. You can't say you know the bible is fake or false or pagan stories if you haven't read it. Just read The Revelation Of Jesus Christ. Come on read it. Don't talk down on somebody cause they believe in the bible. Thats whats wrong with our country and the world today.

I read the bible. I read it a couple times in fact. I believe the biggest argument against the bible is reading the bible. Just because I person really likes a BOOK doesn't mean it's true. I liked Lord of the Rings but no matter how much I keep reading and preaching I just don't think there was ever a middle earth out there. Considering at the beginning of the last millenium was one of the most recorded in the ancient world this Jesus character isn't really brought up all the much. In fact we should turn to look at when each books were actually recorded. I believe the earliest book was wrote somewhere around 70-100 years after Christ's death. So if Jesus was in his 30's I imagine most of the apostles/disciples/followers were close to the same age. Now figure that the longest most people lived was till around 50 or even 60 years old tops so we're looking at 30 AD at most. Now 40 years go by when a book gets wrote about Jesus to be put in the New Testament. This book wasn't even wrote by the author on the cover or title of the book. So for about 40 years the story was traveled by word of mouth, kind of like the game telephone in grade school. Now let's throw in the fact the amazing stories of monsters, gods, falling off the edge of the world, superstitions, and every other crazy thing they believed back then ran rampant through social circles and people honestly believed all of this, so what do you get? A honest story of a messiah? Or a fairy tale to control the masses?

Shall we even begin to include the other books that didn't make it into the bible? Or how about only 1 book includes Jesus' miraculous birth?(That seems like a big deal to me) Or how about as others have pointed out that pagan holidays were replaced with identical christian holidays; Saturnalia, Ester, Halloween, etc. Or the Jesus story has been told many times before throughout the world he just has different names; Horus, Dionysus, Mithra, Krishna( that one is even close to Christ/Christos), the list goes on. The church originally came out and said that the only reason it seems that the christian religion copies so many pagan holidays is that the devil made it all up first to coerce the masses to his evil side.

I could keep going on and on arguing my evidence against your/ the majority of the US populations evidence( 79.5%) but you and the rest of them have made of their mind without considering another opinion. The difference is I USED to be just like you but I decided to think for myself and stop listening to the brainwashing propaganda that distills fear in everyone. The "either your with us of against us" mindframe.

So to sum it all up; a snake talked to a woman and convinced her to eat an apple that a voice in the sky told her not to eat and since then all of man sin, and than somewhere in there people lived to be like 800 with multiple wives, a guy built a boat and gathered ALL animals in pairs to weather out a flood, a guy got swallowed by a whale and lived, a burning bush talked to a man when no one was around to tell him rules, a guy walked on water and rose from the dead and made zombies and other cool magic tricks, he was the son of god but was god yet prayed to himself and sacrificed himself for ALL of mans sin yet we still sin and have to atone for it, BUT I'm crazy because I call all that fairy tales.

OP, I am a christian, and I support you 100 percent in your faith. However this was the wrong way to spread your faith. You can't just blatantly come out and say Bible is the answer and the end all be all. That is a quick way to start a fight with non believers. Even if I do believe the bible to be the one and only holy book, I can't come out and condemn people or condemn other books. We do not condemn as christians that is not our job, our job is to spread the word with love. If we can't convert with love then that is their choice to not listen. But don't give up on a single person because they won't listen, God gives the opportunity to convert till they die, so maybe one day the message will get to them.

Give this guy a break, he has more courage then a lot of christians that keep their faith in a closet. He wants to spread the word on ATS and deny ignorance. To claim that just because there is no proof God doesn't exist isn't a valid argument its a logical fallacy. There is no way to scientifically prove God because it isn't the goal of science to do so. So until the day you die all of you will never truly know which decision you made was right just keep that in mind.

lets just say jesus came back in the flesh. the whole world could see him and touch him. i still wouldnt follow his ways. because i still could choose not to!

To the OP, I respect your beliefs , and as far as I'm concerned you may follow them till you die, I hope that you find what your looking for and you live your life in safety and harmony but here's what I want you to remember;

DON'T push your religion on me!!! I'll push back twice as hard !!!

I don't care about your Jesus or your god!!!

Don't say things like " everyone knows Jesus ". No , everyone doesn't know and some like me don't care about your "Jesus" or the bible or your god

Lets just say your right and there is a god and Jesus and the bible is right, I'm still gonna punch god in the face and demand an explanation as to why he let the horrible things happen on this planet for the last 2000 years!!(yes, I'm gonna punch him first to get his attention!!)


Belive in what you want, as long as it makes you happy , just don't push it on me!!!



Be safe people

Part of the Bible are relevant and proven historical CHRONICLES of the Jewish People, whom had bothered and civilised enough to write them down, and proven by modern archeological expeditions to discover a part of humanity's past.

There are certainly much mystery, as well as the ambiguities written by little educated scribes compared to today's generation, for latter humanity to comprehend. Today, we mankind may not even dare to presume that we know it all to comprehend fully such words, other than to consider it 'ambigious', or 'fairy tales' over what we do not understand, to egoistically make up for our limited knowledge.

But ONE THING for sure, even disregarding the controversies over who and what had been written in the jewish chronicles, both old and new testaments, IT DOES present relevant concepts for civilisation to progress and evolve from the jungle.

For those who had not read it in its entirety or comprehend as much as our limited minds can, do read it a few more times. The answers are there for us all, to progress and evolve, and that's what matters most, for our common Creator had not sought for pedestals or images made after him, but that we only follow civilisational guidelines laid out by Him, so as not to continually bang against the wall, but evolve, with our free will....

Originally posted by outwired
I don't see how being in a particular religious group doesn't cause division. Religion to me is a great divider among men. I am a good person, I do good things, I'm not perfect but I shouldn't be judge based on my lack of belief, instead I should be judge based on my actions and intent. Jesus, god, or whatever you want to label your deity has nothing to do with my actions. He has no control over the decisions I make because he simply doesn't exist. I believe in coming together and striving to be better, doing good things, and caring for other people; those aren't religious ideals. I know many christians and theologians try to attribute those as being only values a god fearing person could have, its simple not true. I know your post was well intentioned but it presupposes there is a god who is a benevolent force that guides men to do good things. However elegant that may seem, its not the case, religion and this 'benevolent' force has caused a great many tragedies. Acceptance of god will not make the world a better place or end suffering. Tell that to the muslims and jews battling it out in the 'holy land'. How about we take an example from the bible. God told the israelites to slaughter an entire village of people and not to leave anyone alive. That is unacceptable behavior. Religion isn't inherently good or bad. Its the leaders and followers of the religion you should hold accountable. God doesn't make people do anything, because god doesn't exist.


Yes - Christianity will always cause division - Jesus Christ plainly stated that he didn't come to bring peace: Matthew Chapter 10 34 "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn "`a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law - 36 a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' It would do some people a lot of good to actually read the book they so often try to refute!

edit on 13-3-2012 by aardvark888 because: font, formatiing

edit on 13-3-2012 by aardvark888 because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by Vsc1981
I'm new to ATS and so far I've enjoyed it. The motto for ATS is deny ignorance and I recently came across some ignorance from some people on ATS. You see the bible is God's work. We all know that. Its what He had people of His choosing to write so it could be preached and taught to the whole world so that His most loved creation could learn of Him and worship Him. So they could know of His commandments and follow them. And also to prepare for the second coming of Jesus. To warn of impending disasters to befall man and destroy His creation earth. He wants us to love and obey Him, and to fear Him. Not to worship false gods or prophets. To believe in only Him and only His word. Now these people that i mentioned seem to think that there is these other books that would have God contradicting Himself. Saying things like Jews aren't God's chosen people and He didn't give the land of Israel to the Jews. So i guess I'm just looking for some support on these issues.

Why did you come here to preach? Your entire post is pushing the christian agenda. You can't get more boring than reading something that's been beaten more than the dead horse. Where is the new information/conspiracy/denial of ignorance in that? Christianity has been at the forefront of ignorance since its beginning. And to correct one thing: you said "you see the bible is god's work. We all know that." NO. Not only do we not all know that, many of us, including myself, DON'T believe that fairy tale and don't even believe in a god. The bible, like the religions it pushes, is a fraud and meant for primitive people who needed something to believe in. I've read it, taught it, studied it cover to cover. It is a fraud.

Biggest laugh of the day. Prove the bible is gods work.

Originally posted by Visiting ESB
Not only do we not all know that, many of us, including myself, DON'T believe that fairy tale and don't even believe in a god. The bible, like the religions it pushes, is a fraud and meant for primitive people who needed something to believe in. I've read it, taught it, studied it cover to cover. It is a fraud.

edit on 13-3-2012 by Visiting ESB because: add to sentence

The OP is merely presenting his point of view. Just as you have the right to point out your view.

Wherelse the OP is searching out opinions, But why the imposition of your personal view by a personal diatribe against the OP and to others in ATS that your view is the only correct one? What had cause that deep rooted hatred inside you?