Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by wildtimes

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Obviously nothing I say will sway your opinion.

All I know, is that through personal EXPERIENCE, not just research, I happen to know deep down and with 100% certaintity that God is real, and that Jesus the Christ is one and the same with God.

That is not possible if He survived the crucifixon.

Wildtimes, you seem like a really nice person..... but by telling people that Christ wasnt resurrected, you could hurt someone who is new to the faith, or has shaky faith or not much knowledge - which is what I'm scared of and trying to prevent you from doing.

So if it is a pagan imported emblem - why should modern-day Yisro'eli's use it on their national flag, I wonder ??

Professor Yeshayahu Leibowitz, a Latvian-born philosopher at the Hebrew University, was probably first to suggest that the Holocaust has become the new Jewish religion. The Israeli philosopher Adi Ophir also pointed out91 that far from being merely a historical narrative, ‘The Holocaust’ contains numerous essential religious elements. It has priests (e.g. Simon Wiesenthal, Elie Wiesel, Deborah Lipstadt) and prophets (Shimon Peres, Binyamin Netanyahu, those who warn of the Iranian Judeocide to come). It has commandments and dogmas (e.g. ‘Never Again’) and rituals (memorial days, pilgrimage to Auschwitz, etc). It has an established,esoteric symbolic order (e.g. kapos , gas chambers, chimneys, dust, shoes, the figure of the Musselmann , etc). It also has a temple, Yad Vashem, and shrines – Holocaust museums – in capital cities worldwide. The Holocaust religion is also maintained by a massive global financial network, what Norman Finkelstein terms the ‘Holocaust industry’, as well as such institutions as the Holocaust Education Trust. This new religion is coherent enough to define its ‘antichrists’ (Holocaust deniers), and powerful enough to persecute them (through Holocaust-denial and hate-speech laws).

Atzmon, Gilad (2011-09-30). The Wandering Who: A Study of Jewish Identity Politics (Kindle Locations 2110-2124). NBN_Mobi_Kindle. Kindle Edition.

Wildtimes, you seem like a really nice person..... but by telling people that Christ wasnt resurrected, you could hurt someone who is new to the faith, or has shaky faith or not much knowledge - which is what I'm scared of and trying to prevent you from doing.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by wildtimes

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Obviously nothing I say will sway your opinion.

All I know, is that through personal EXPERIENCE, not just research, I happen to know deep down and with 100% certaintity that God is real, and that Jesus the Christ is one and the same with God.

That is not possible if He survived the crucifixon.

Wildtimes, you seem like a really nice person..... but by telling people that Christ wasnt resurrected, you could hurt someone who is new to the faith, or has shaky faith or not much knowledge - which is what I'm scared of and trying to prevent you from doing.

I think we just found why most of the pro-miracles types are around claiming Bible written by god and Jesus being god because he officially died.

Everyone knows when the body dies the brain goes really fast with no oxygen, about 7 minutes and the person is dead and nothing is going to bring the person to life again. That Jesus was soon walking around, means the brain didn't die.


I think you notice that we have a little training camp for critical thinking and captures all the distortions of the simple facts of nature as for life and death. That we show others via science and the words on how short a time Jesus died, that things don't fit what is claimed.

That so much faith is needed to believe these incredible tales speaks to the issue that you all know the story is embellished and faked up and speaking to the deeper details and using critical thinking, one finds the faith game is about untruths.

The real story is Jesus never officially died, but passed out, drugged with a sponge, all speak to the issue that life remained in Jesus body and they got him down, patched up the damage, and he lived and never was officially dead.

Any Belief that a person was officially dead and returns to life is against the issues of God and nature, which doesn't support miracles.

But there are humans that embellish stories, tell us incredible stories to sucker too many into games for delusions that go against the issues of God.

You worship a faked up story, needing faith, and not truth to grab people's interests, and usually that only works with those that lack the power of critical thinking.


Just like Jesus was an Essene, and the Bible was written by men, so was Jesus still alive and taken down in a highly traumatic state that he survived. Simple trauma studies and the issues of brain death speak to this.

Jesus never died, and those that buy that fable are being misled and buying into words going against god, and that makes Jesus a false idol. Those people offend God and truth. imho

Most of us just catch you when you violate the rules and the simple truths.

edit on 29-3-2012 by MagnumOpus because: Offenses against God and making Jesus a false idol

• Tacitus in his Annals (c.115 A.D.) mentions that Christ was crucified under Pontius Pilate and gives detailed descriptions of Nero’s persecutions — which are also alluded to in several places in the New Testament.
• The correspondence between Pliny the younger and the Roman Emperor Trajan (98-117 A.D.) corroborates the New Testament history including the persecution of the Christians under the Emperor Nero.
• Flavius Josephus (37-100 A.D.), the first century Jewish historian, makes mention of Jesus, John the Baptist and the James, the brother of Jesus. Recent scholarship has indicated that at least most if not all of Josephus' mention of Jesus authentic. Other references to New Testament figures corrroborate the Christian Gospel writers.

No way did they have morphine 2,000 years ago to knock a person out cold and somehow heal him of all his wounds.

Opium has been known for millennia to relieve pain and its use for surgical analgesia has been recorded for several centuries. The Sumerian clay tablet (about 2100 BC) is considered to be the world's oldest recorded list of medical prescriptions.

It is believed by some scholars that the opium poppy is referred to on the tablet. Some objects from the ancient Greek Minoan culture may also suggest the knowledge of the poppy. A goddess from about 1500 BC shows her hair adorned probably with poppy-capsules and her closed eyes disclose sedation. Also juglets probably imitating the poppy-capsules were found in that period in both Cyprus and Egypt.

The first authentic reference to the milky juice of the poppy we find by Theophrastus at the beginning of the third century BC. In the first century the opium poppy and opium was known by Dioscorides, Pliny and Celsus and later on by Galen. Celsus suggests the use of opium before surgery and Dioscorides recommended patients should take mandrake (contains scopolamine and atropine) mixed with wine, before limb amputation.

edit on 3-4-2012 by wildtimes because: History of opium poppy and morphine is the source.

And reconstruct the broken bones in his legs, so he could walk around in 3 days. and his heart, which was pierced with a spear.

Crucially Jesus' legs were not broken as he was deemed to have already been dead. Holger Kersten has shown that, based on the Greek text of these events, it seems likely that the test for if Jesus was alive or dead was the lance used to pierce his side. As he did not react to this it was assumed he was dead.

When Jesus side was pierced "blood and water" flowed out. Would this occur on a body that had been dead for some time?

What Evidence Points to Jesus Having Survived the Crucifixion?

Below is a list of items that suggest Jesus survived the Crucifxion:

The Sign of Jonah - Jesus' prediction he would mirror Jonah. Jonah came close to death but was saved

The Prayer in Gethsemane - Jesus prayed to be saved and for the 'cup' to be taken from him

Pilate's Wife's Dream - Did Pilate's wife receive a dream telling her to ensure that her husband had nothing to do with Jesus?

Duration of the Crucifixion - Jesus's Crucifixion lasted between 3 and 6 hours. Crucifixion usually lasted for several days. It was designed to be a drawn out punishment.

Jesus' Legs were Not Broken - Breaking of the legs would lead to a quick death. The Gospel records that Jesus' legs were not broken. There was still a chance he was still alive.

Blood and Water - When Jesus' side was pierced, the Gospel of John records blood and water flowing out. This suggest an active heart and not a dead body.

Joseph of Arimathea & Nicodemus - They obtained the body from Pilate and were able to take it to a private grave site that Joseph owned.

Aloe and Myrhh - The herbs used on the body of Jesus were known for their healing power -

Having arrived at the barren mountain ridge "Gileon", where nothing grows, and which lay on the north side, through which the lonely valley of death winds its way, they halted, and Jesus fell to the ground, his tortured body losing all its strength.

Meanwhile, the Roman soldiers were selecting places for erecting the crosses. This done, they desired to prove their sympathy with the sufferers by giving to them a drink that made them unconscious, according to the custom before crucifixion. This drink was made from sour wine mixed with wormwood, and was called "Toska".

The Centurion then questioned the messenger to learn what Pilate wanted of him at so late an hour of the night. The messenger answered that Pilate desired to know if Jesus was indeed dead.

"So he is", said the Centurion, "therefore we have not broken his bones."

To be more sure of it, one of the soldiers stuck a spear into the body in such a manner that it passed over the hip and into the side. The body showed no convulsions, and this was taken as a sure sign that he was actually dead; and he hurried and went away to make his report.

But from the insignificant wound flowed blood and water, at which John wondered and my own hope revived. For even John knew, from the knowledge of our Brotherhood that from a wound in a dead body flows nothing but a few drops of thickened blood; but now there flowed both water and blood.

Morphine wasn't even isolated from the opium poppy until MILLENIA later, and Opium was not in use where Jesus was crucified....