The Bible and the war against God's true and only work.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


The leopard was also the symbol of the Persian Empire. Symbolized as such in Daniel's dream in the book of Daniel. But lets not consider that shall we? The coming man of sin is also referred to as the "Prince of Persia", but that's probably just a coincidence correct?

I tell you what, when I see my fellow Christians dancing around, singing to, and bowing down to a golden cross I'll agree with you. Heck, when I see them do it to a wooden one I'll even agree with you.

If you do wish to see idolatry in Christendom look at Catholicism, they actually, truly, really do have idols and will kneel to them and likewise offer their prayer to the people whom they represent.

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www.reocities.com...


This clearly says that things done in the past will be done in the future or things that may seem new have been done before. In Ecclesiastes 1:13 it says: "And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concrning all that hes been done under the heaven. It is a grevious task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with." Here it tells us of God giving the task of exploring the past. An example of all this is in Matthew 24:37 where Jesus says: "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah." The Bible tells us that the future is just like a time in the past. So the second coming of Jesus Christ will be in a time just like how it was back in the days of Noah when the world was so corrupted God destroyed almost everybody. Now keep this all in mind and know the past unlocks the future.

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reply to post by NOTurTypical


I don't believe there was a cross beam... the word is pole or stake (stavros)... it would have had the same effect if not better if is hands were nailed above his head....

The cross wasn't originally a christian symbol... it has earlier origins.

reply to post by MagnumOpus


certain it's not more along these lines?

For this is as the waters of Noah unto me
Isaiah 54

For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda
Hebrews7

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

I don't believe there was a cross beam... the word is pole or stake (stavros)... it would have had the same effect if not better if is hands were nailed above his head....

The cross wasn't originally a christian symbol... it has earlier origins.

Very earlier origins. The Romans didn't invent the method of crucifixion, they simply perfected it. It was invented by the Persians centuries before. You don't have to take my word for it friend, I have a practical example you can try at home:

Stretch your arms as wide as you possibly can and breathe that way for 1 minute. Then lift your arms high above your head and see if your breathing becomes harder or much more easy. My mother had us children do this all the time as kids when we were coughing to open up our chest to make it easier to cough/breathe. She's a Respiratory Therapist. People suffering from an asthma attack are instructed to do this as well.

The purpose of the crossbeam was to force the convicted person to have to push off the foot nails to be able to breathe. When they could no longer do this from exhaustion and muscle fatigue death came by asphyxiation.

Originally posted by MagnumOpus

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www.reocities.com...


This clearly says that things done in the past will be done in the future or things that may seem new have been done before. In Ecclesiastes 1:13 it says: "And I set my mind to seek and explore by wisdom concrning all that hes been done under the heaven. It is a grevious task which God has given to the sons of men to be afflicted with." Here it tells us of God giving the task of exploring the past. An example of all this is in Matthew 24:37 where Jesus says: "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah." The Bible tells us that the future is just like a time in the past. So the second coming of Jesus Christ will be in a time just like how it was back in the days of Noah when the world was so corrupted God destroyed almost everybody. Now keep this all in mind and know the past unlocks the future.

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*Ahem*

If you do wish to see idolatry in Christendom look at Catholicism, they actually, truly, really do have idols and will kneel to them and likewise offer their prayer to the people whom they represent.

Veneration = worship.

I never been to church and seen them worshiping a cross though... that would be weird.

most churches idol is Jesus from what I have seen stepping in and out but Jesus is not here and they don't worship some image of him in the church... more so his actions.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Isn't the cross just symbolism though? Even though it wasn't actually "christian" innitially...

Technically Christ was hung on a "pole/stake"...

I thought it was a pole. Yes, it is a symbol, after all. I always thought it stood for a sword, you know, the sword Christians used against the Pagans.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


The problem is the word cross... it isn't used in the greek translation... staurós means a vertical wooden sharpened pole or stake... theres nothing in the bible that indicates a cross beam was used...

the word doesn't mean cross... nor does it say two pieces of wood nailed together... pole or stake is a singluar form...

even in earlier scripture... such as the Greek Septuagint translation of the Bible at Ezra 6:11 (480–440 BC) approx. The word xy′lon was used... and reads:

11 Furthermore, I decree that if anyone defies this edict, a beam is to be pulled from their house and they are to be impaled on it. And for this crime their house is to be made a pile of rubble.

Clearly this indicated a single "beam"....

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Moloch was also known as an Owl God. He is still worshipped today by Bohemian Grove Members.....

"Described as the 'Greatest Men's Party on Earth,' the members of the Bohemian Club and international elites have been gathering in their redwoods for over 100 years. Regular visitors include the Bushes, Henry Kissinger, Colin Powell, Newt Gingrich, whilst past luminaries have included Former Presidents Regan and Nixon, together BEFORE they had even taken office.... [P]ast luminaries have included Former Presidents Regan and Nixon, together BEFORE they had even taken office....

"The most famous ritual that occurs at the Grove every year is the Symbolic Pagan Worship of Molech – the ‘god’ of Child Sacrifice. ... [P]olitical figureheads from around the world attend this sacrifice ceremony. German Chancellor Helmut Schmidt wrote of his fondness for the Grove ceremonies in his Biography 'Men and Power'.... Former President Richard Nixon is on record questioning the activities at the Grove, making reference to the debase, decadent attitude as well as the homosexual activity there." See A Twist of Faith - Chapter 7

Source

reply to post by Akragon


Okay, did you even attempt the experiment I gave to you? Which method was harder to breathe? Regardless, the point is HE shed His blood for you and us all, the method it took place is irrelevant.

Forget the cross, look to the One who died upon it.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Yes i realize the cross means nothing... its just symbolic of course...

Im just bored, and felt like arguing...

what i said is true though...

reply to post by Akragon


Likewise what I said is true. I spent years doing it as a child when I was trying to breathe while coughing my lungs up.

Did you try the practical example I gave to you? Which method was easier to breathe, which one was much more difficult?

Hands high above the head doesn't prevent breathing, it makes it much easier.

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by MagnumOpus

 

Isn't the cross just symbolism though? Even though it wasn't actually "christian" innitially...

Technically Christ was hung on a "pole/stake"...

I thought it was a pole. Yes, it is a symbol, after all. I always thought it stood for a sword, you know, the sword Christians used against the Pagans.

the sword of truth? telling them they too are not gods on earth...

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

The problem is the word cross... it isn't used in the greek translation... staurós means a vertical wooden sharpened pole or stake... theres nothing in the bible that indicates a cross beam was used...

when I see a cross I see Jesus with his arms open... it could have been the idea even if it was a stake.

the result could be the means...

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

Likewise what I said is true. I spent years doing it as a child when I was trying to breathe while coughing my lungs up.

Did you try the practical example I gave to you? Which method was easier to breathe, which one was much more difficult?

Hands high above the head doesn't prevent breathing, it makes it much easier.

edit on 26-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

yes i know... but this also brings back the idea that he may have survived...

reply to post by Akragon


Yes, but looking at the broader evidence it seems impossible for Jesus to have survived. He was scourged with a whip, imprissioned, had a crown of thorns forced onto his head, forced to carry his cross (or beam, whatever you like to call it) through the city of Jeruselem to the ourskirts, where his wrists and feet were nailed to it. It was thought for many years that the palms of his hands were nailed to the cross, but history shows more acuratly that the nails would have been placed in his wrists, between the two segments of bone. His legs were broken, he was subject to asphixeation on the cross, and finally he was pierced in the chest.

I doubt survival is possible at that point. He recieved no medical treatment. The wounds on his back would have become redily infected by the time he was crusified. The Roman's made sure he was actually dead.

One of the more interesting tombs that have some Biblical significance is the tomb of Osirus, which is analogous with Nimrod. What appears the most interesting is the story of the sarcophagus is there is told the lid was a blue stone. Blue tiles were used for the Tower of Babylon:

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www.drhawass.com...

The final chamber is the most interesting of all. Much of it is taken up by a rectangular emplacement in the center, carved from the living rock with the remains of a square pillar at each corner. The space left between the walls of the chamber and the emplacement in the center forms a kind of channel. The channel is broken at the entrance to the chamber, where the floor has been left at a higher level to connect it with the emplacement. This gives the channel the shape of the hieroglyphic sign pr, meaning “house.” In the center of the emplacement, there is a large sarcophagus made of black basalt. The sarcophagus contained the remains of a skeleton, along with several amulets dating to the Late Period. We were surprised to find that there was also some red polished pottery with traces of white paint, which probably dates to the 6th Dynasty.

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indigosociety.com...

One has to keep in mind that most every Christian Churches have the Cross, and this is part of their death and resurrection story that they all worship. The Cross is generally part of their altar, and they worship the god Jesus.

The Cross has earlier occurance as the symbol for Tammuz and the story of Jesus is coated with that Trinity, and that story of how men became god. It is impossible to separate Nimrod and Tammuz from Jesus became Constantine connected them into one.


Noturtypical will waste everyone's time again and again trying to deny this is the central tennant for Christianty, and attempt to tell well my church doesn't do this----when the bulk of Christian churches do that cross thing to link Jesus as a god. It doesn't matter what Noturtypical church may or may not do and the world does not revolve around his little church or his ideas.


It is utter non-sense on the issue of hands up or hands spread wide, except to sell more suffereing of the Christ things and dramatize the event. This is the typical Christian need to draw in the person to suffering and then jump on up to Christ lived through all that misery. And that Jesus became god when he was resurrected, and the cross become the symbolism that not only the Catholics tend to worship, but ever Christian Church that sells the Jesus has risen story.

The story is that of Babylon's games adopted by the Christians, which puts them back to being pagans, Sun worshipers, those selling Babylon's games. imho

Noturtypical hasn't figured out that the Persians conquored Babylon and that became their capital and they inherited a lot of the Babylon symbolism.

Noturtypical would rather chase down Moloch, attempting to pull people off the central theme of Jesus being linked with Nimrod Tammuz Sun Worship issues. Also that the Nimrod theme with horns and leopards gets better into Revelations explanations. Somehow common sense eludes this programmed with nonsense Christian.

There is a simple way to discover and there are those that take you down the impossible road. imho

Truth is better served with a thousand atheists than one Christian.

reply to post by MarlboroRedCowgirl

His legs were broken

No, that part isn't true. The centurion didn't break Christ's legs because He had already been dead for 3 or so hours at that point. And we learn from secular sources outside the bible that the chest piercing was the Roman requirement for a body to be removed from the cross to be given to the family for burial. generally the bodies were left on the cross to be eaten by animals and decompose publicly as a symbol to all who would challenge the authority of Rome.

The piercing wasn't some afterthought, it was standard Roman procedure for that particular circumstance. Or in layman's terms, they killed a man that had been dead for 3 hours. And the blood and water (clear fluid) that emerged from the would is consistent with someone who perished from pericardial and pleural effusions, not necessarily asphyxiation.

That's why Pilate marveled that Christ was already dead. The beating/scourging He endured was so severe it caused both those conditions which greatly hastened death.