The Bible and the war against God's true and only work.

Please go back to the website that sends over all the bible thumpers to ATS and tell them to cut it out. We are already filled with crazy.

Originally posted by aardvark888
reply to post by Ghost375

 

I'm sick and tired of hearing people say the Bible has been changed - the King James version of the Bible is the word of God as originally given to the original writers. There are no changes. Stop blindly accepting what anti-God people tell you!

LOL

I didn't know that Jesus and the apostles spoke the "King's English."

Originally posted by autowrench

Originally posted by Vsc1981
I'm new to ATS and so far I've enjoyed it. The motto for ATS is deny ignorance and I recently came across some ignorance from some people on ATS. You see the bible is God's work. We all know that.

No, we do not "all know that." Some of us know better, and some of us are completely brainwashed by religion, and cannot see it. The "Bible," as you collectively call it, has nothing to do with God, it is a very small portion of what used to be a very big work. The Council at Nicene decided on the "official canon," and also made a man into a God, and decided this man would in fact come back and save all of the Christians. It is not going to happen, friend, you have to save your own self. You also have to judge your own self.

Its what He had people of His choosing to write so it could be preached and taught to the whole world so that His most loved creation could learn of Him and worship Him. So they could know of His commandments and follow them. And also to prepare for the second coming of Jesus. To warn of impending disasters to befall man and destroy His creation earth. He wants us to love and obey Him, and to fear Him. Not to worship false gods or prophets.

Hmmm, let me see, can you tell us all which is the right God to worship? There are 18 Gods in the KJV Bible alone, and thousands of Gods and Goddess in history. How did you come to know which is the real God? For someone who says they deny ignorance, you certainly seem to have a lot of it. There are a few others in here that think they need to save us all from their imagined Hell and Devil, perhaps you can compare notes and come off better next time?

To believe in only Him and only His word. Now these people that i mentioned seem to think that there is these other books that would have God contradicting Himself. Saying things like Jews aren't God's chosen people and He didn't give the land of Israel to the Jews. So i guess I'm just looking for some support on these issues.

I think you need to educate yourself a little.....
I take it you are a Yahweh follower? How much do you know about him? Did you know that the word "Yah," in Hebrew means "Fiery, and "Weh," means "Dragon? When the ancient Jews translated the word Seraphim into Greek, the word they used was Drakon, which is the word our modern "dragon" is derived from.
Some scholars acknowledge that the Name Yahweh comes from the Cannanite Dragon God Yaw, who like the Biblical Yahweh is a God of storms and floods, but is a "son" of the true Creator Elohim. He is specifically described spewing fire from his mouth and smoke from his nostrils, exactly like a dragon. Gnostics also state Yah-weh is a dragon in their scriptures.

Many of us seem to be happy to follow what we are told by others. We seem to be unable to take responsibility for our own destiny. Its far easier to follow another's truths we have been told...hey, that way we don't have to think...its been done for us...great. If it all goes wrong its THEIR fault not ours, it was they that told us this right? So we get away with any issues, they will have to deal with it not us....right?
But what if what we have blindly followed is NOT the truth. What if by taking responsibility for our own destiny we actually find the truth? Find the True God and Goddess? Find ourselves. That, friends, is the true quest.
A List of Biblical Contradictions
Bible Absurdities
Bible Atrocities
10 Christ-like Figures Who Pre-Date Jesus
Deny Ignorance, and Realize Reality.

edit on 3/13/12 by autowrench because: (no reason given)

That's interesting, Autowrench, but I didn't think even Jewish scholars could determine how to pronounce the four-letter name of god-YHWH. There are many theories, but none absolute. i'm not disagreeing with you, because the god of the OT is known as the blind god, the liar. They were called Archons and described as serpent beings with feline heads or something like a dragon. In the Nag Hammadi, I believe it's Thomas that states they are not the highest god or the Pre-Existant One.

Your exerience is very interesting and the bible does tell us to worship nothing outside of ourselves. Maybe that's why Jesus was in your vision and not represented as a god, but as far as levels, the christ consciousness IS a very high level. He did state "Haven't ye read the scriptures, ye are gods".

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
welcome to Ats. where the bible believers are ridiculed , hated, censored,and despised.
some people even say Islam is a more peaceful religion. some are so ignorant as to say Jesus never existed

most have been brainwashed threw the school system to believe a theory Charles darwin did not fully believe himself.

buckle up is gonna be a good ride.---another thing people here are highly taught by david ike and texxe marrs to believe "reptilians" are at the top of the pyramid

.,and to hate the Jewish state of Israel and to blame everything on the "Zionist"while the real elite get no attention.

everything you said is on point. but as Christians some times we shall do as Jesus said and not throw our pearls(Christs teachings) at swine or pigs (yea this is how Jesus referred to you brainwashed people)--

we are not here to convert the world, some times we should keep our treasures to ourselves.
God bless you brother.

as for proof the bible is the inerrant word of GOD and from outside our time domain...........

The arrogance of this post is staggering.

Point 1: There are smart, open-minded people who understand that there are other beliefs and ways of thinking than their own. There are also paranoid, narrow-minded people. People like you who see any difference of belief or opinion as an attack. You claim that you are hated, ridiculed, and despised, yet you shamelessly refer to other people as swine.


Point 2ut Islam and Christianity side by side, and look at all of the atrocities committed by both since their founding. How many crusades and genocides have been waged in the name of Atheism, or people who don't follow organized religion?




"most have been brainwashed threw the school system to believe a theory Charles darwin did not fully believe himself." I especially love this one. Isn't that all your Bible is?


Yes you are not here to convert the world. You are entitled to believe what you want to believe. You and others like you shouldn't present those beliefs as absolute truth and expect not to be challenged. I think thats the whole issue with your ilk, you get challenged and that upsets you.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by denynothing
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

He doesn't require us to be mindless idiots as you so eloquently say, we are all given a choice.

Why did Adam/Eve get tossed from the garden?
Explain what went down...

Now explain why the rule was there to begin with, where god did indeed want a bunch of worshipping idiots.

What happened to the tower of babel? What was the fear of God that made him tear it down?

Explain to me why God fears man having knowledge.

He does require us to be mindless idiots.

a broken relationship with God because of the original sin.

The sins of my father before I was born are -not- mine to burden myself with, period.
Any deity wanting to blame me for stuff that happened before my birth does not deserve my worship, or even respect.

I see the imperfect tiny deity you adhere to and see nothing but darkness. The biblical religion (all forms, from judism, to christianity and islam) is false in my opinion...however, I could be swayed into believing it was meddling aliens or (if such a thing) demonic by nature...but more than likely just a lot of cavemen writing up crap whenever they thought of it.

Incidently, congrats on your religious adherance not to christ, or moses, but of Saint Augustine.

Saint Augustine (354-430) was the first theologian to teach that man is born into this world in a state of sin. The basis of his belief is from the Bible (Genesis 3:17-19) where Adam is described as having disobeyed G-d by eating the forbidden fruit of the tree of knowledge in the Garden of Eden. This, the first sin of man, became known as original sin.

Many Christians today, particularly members of the Anglican, Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist, and Presbyterian Churches, subscribe to this belief. They maintain that the sin of Adam was transferred to all future generations, tainting even the unborn. Substantiation for this view is found in the New Testament (Romans 5:12) where Paul says, "Wherefore as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. By one man's disobediance many were made sinners."

Christianity believes that only through the acceptance of Jesus that the "grace" of G-d can return to man. A Christian need only believe in Jesus to be saved; nothing else is required of her.

The doctrine of original sin is totally unacceptable to Jews (as it is to Christian sects such as Baptists and Assemblies of G-d). Jews believe that man enters the world free of sin, with a soul that is pure and innocent and untainted. While there were some Jewish teachers in Talmudic times who believed that death was a punishment brought upon mankind on account of Adam's sin, the dominant view by far was that man sins because he is not a perfect being, and not, as Christianity teaches, because he is inherently sinful.

Source


Incidently, I am an agnostic-atheist spiritualist

Well said my friend.

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Vsc1981

 

I read the Holy Bible King James version. And I'm not tryin to push my religious beliefs on anyone. I'm just trying to get people to thinking. I know there is a ton of different religions and books and beliefs. I'm not saying stop believing what you believe in. But you have to agree that in your hearts you always feel Jesus tugging at it.

Get us to thinking. That's a funny one. How do you think this site became so big, and so famous? People come here to think, and to obtain thoughts and ideas. I myself have learned a great deal more in here than I have been able to teach others.
Please explain "But you have to agree that in your hearts you always feel Jesus tugging at it?" You did know he was just a man, a man who lived long after the supposed crucifixion, and died, and was buried? And, in 1980 the ossuary containing the remains was found? Titanic find: 'Christ's coffin'
There was even a Discovery Channel Program on the find at the time. How do you know that is Jesus tugging on your heart and not some Christian Demon? I'll bet money if I told you I spoke with a dead person, or an ET Being, you would quickly state to me the same thing, right? How can a dead man be tugging at anything? Why do you feel the need to be a servant, with a Lord, and a Master? Is your Spirit so weak it cannot stand on it's own?
I could go on forever, but I digress. Cheers.

You are aware that there is debate surrounding this discovery correct? Even the discovery channel issued statements backtracking from claims made in the documentary. A conference was held to determine the validity of the find; the result, we don't know if it is the tomb of Jesus Christ, we need to re-examine the site. And your statement regarding his spirit being so weak he can't stand on its own is demeaning. Also, your statements contradict what you said regarding coming to the great ATS to learn. Doesn't seek like you research into your evidence much but I could be wrong. All I know is that almost every thread here is subject to debate and should be researched thoroughly by both sides.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
[What would a deity want, someone whom was curious about the environment it was put in, or a mindless drone that would never think to even contemplate its surroundings?
If God requires us to be mindless idiots that refuse to acknowledge evidence, he clearly screwed up his design of the human brain. Why would I want to spend an eternity with a imperfect creator whom thinks too highly of itself?

LOL I'd like to turn the idea of the imperfect creator around a bit. Since humans came into existence one of the first things they did was eat a whole bunch of other species into extinction. We're still doing this today.

And then, mankind got hisself some intelligence, and said, "Hey, let's stop living out in the open and build ouselves some homes. Mankind saw this as good. So, they proceeded to cut down the forests and rape the land for stone and metals and every material possible. We're still doing this today.

And, with all the knowledge they had accrued they said, "Whoa, we better build schools to pass on everything we've learned." Mankind saw this as good. More forests cut down, and more natural resources sucked out of the earth for small schools, big schools, colleges, museums. For the religious, massive temples. For the sick - hospitals. Cut, cut, chop, chop.

Mankind's numbers grew. They needed cities all around the world. Mankind saw this as good. Cut, cut, chop, chop.

People needed jobs, which meant factories. Mankind saw this as good. Cut,cut, chop, chop. The factories spewed poisons into the air and water. More species of animals were affected by this and died out.

Electricity was discovered. Mankind saw this as good. From this point on we needed and/or wanted lightbulbs, TV's, cars, phones - all throw away goods so that the raping of the earth for it's natural resources increased exponentially. More forests cut down. More species driven to extinction.

Our method of making electricity couldn't keep up, so nuclear plants sprouted up. Mankind saw this as good. Around the world massive amounts of nuclear waste is being buried, rendering the land useless for hundreds of thousand of years.

Mixed somewhere in this time of so-called human intelligence, mankind learned how to make weapons of mass destruction that can turn whole city populations into dust in a split second, biological weapons that can send countless humans to an excruciating death.

So, not only is there a question of "Why would I want to spend an eternity with an imperfect creator", but in the reverse, what god in his right mind would ever admit to creating such a hideous, malevolent, destructive beast as the human being?

Originally posted by SOILDERSUNITEDFORCHRIST
welcome to Ats. where the bible believers are ridiculed , hated, censored,and despised.
some people even say Islam is a more peaceful religion. some are so ignorant as to say Jesus never existed

most have been brainwashed threw the school system to believe a theory Charles darwin did not fully believe himself.

buckle up is gonna be a good ride.---another thing people here are highly taught by david ike and texxe marrs to believe "reptilians" are at the top of the pyramid

.,and to hate the Jewish state of Israel and to blame everything on the "Zionist"while the real elite get no attention.

everything you said is on point. but as Christians some times we shall do as Jesus said and not throw our pearls(Christs teachings) at swine or pigs (yea this is how Jesus referred to you brainwashed people)--

we are not here to convert the world, some times we should keep our treasures to ourselves.
God bless you brother.

as for proof the bible is the inerrant word of GOD and from outside our time domain...........

I also find the fact that you refer to yourself as a "Soldier for Christ" to be utterly asinine. Based on my knowledge, that seems totally contradictory to his teachings.

This Chuck Missler video you people put up is absolutely hilarious. You do realize he is doing numerology with the English language King James bible, right? How is this meaningful in any way? The English language as present in the KJ bible DID NOT EXIST when the original texts of the bible were written by humans and would not exist for another several hundred years. Just goes to show many of you "Soldiers for Jesus" (which is a contradiction in and of itself) will fall for anything if only it verifies your belief. So much trash "information" in this thread its hard to know where to begin bashing it.

I think ATS needs to make a separate website for religious lunatics, with the motto "Embrace Ignorance."

If the Bible is entirely God's work, why did MEN at the Council of Mycenae decide which of God's writings to include and exclude?

Surely the very act of this creation of the Bible by mankind was a blasphemy against God?

Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by Vsc1981

 

No i love care about every human and every creature upon this earth. No matter religion or race or gender. Its not about that.

I am happy to hear you say that. Love is the most powerful Force in the Universe, and even the Gods all get back at it's supreme and awesome power.

And if you haven't felt Jesus then maybe you could try to find Him.

I did. He wasn't a God, didn't look like you think, and his name was not "Jesus." I once, in deep meditation, had a short time with several beings, he was there, as was the Buddha, and Krishna, and several other Teachers, all talking among themselves. They seemed to be upset, and wondering how to proceed next. Perhaps it was just a dream, but what if it were real? I only could listen, but it was a remarkable experience, to say the least. Another time I was confronted by two beings, both on Golden Thrones, and both demanded my worship, and that I fall on my knees before them. Upon questioning, they turned out to have no power over me at all.

I'm not trying to push nothing on you its just a suggestion

Really? I believe you said a few things that run contrary to that, friend.

And I'm calling peoples beliefs or religion ignorant. I'm calling the name calling and down talking on me ignorant. Thats just not fair in so many ways.

I hope that you do not think that I think you are ignorant, but even so, that is not a bad name, just means you do now know, but are willing to learn. Are you willing to learn? The big problem with BELIEFS is that they are set into stone. Once a person forms a "belief," it can never change. There is no room for other thoughts, or ideas, or new information, the beliefs take up all of the brain and keeps out everything else. I was raised in a Christian Cult, I know a few things about them. I was warned severely not to read secular books, or any book on Occult Knowledge, or any other religion. I am a reader though, and that could not stand. I have IDEAS. Ideas are Dynamic in nature, not Static like beliefs are. When I get a new idea, I can include it with my other ideas. If an idea become stale, or is proved wrong, I can discard it without a second thought.
Many have said of me that I am Anti-Christ, and Anti-Christian. That is only partly true. What I rage, and fight against is the hierarchy itself. The clergy claim to be ministers (from minister, a Latin translation of di‧a′ko‧nos, “servant”). For this, they graduate from colleges or seminaries and are ordained.
Now I have had many conversations with "ordained ministers." Not one could ever successfully defend his/her position as opposed to my own. When I point out that to raise a man before the Creator God as a Godman, some hang their heads in shame, and that is when I ask them what about the Divine Mother, or Feminine aspect of the Godhead? Even thought in the Bible she is called "Queen of Heaven," Christians all seem to either forget her completely, or cast bad names and vile terms to describe her. She provides all that humankind has, from the clothes on your back, to the shoes on your feet, the food you eat, and the water you drink all come from Mother Earth.
You will find that fairness rules in here, but, one must give respect to get respect, and when one posts things without proof, other will demand that proof be shown. People will show you the truth of the Bible if you ask them, and I can guarantee you that people in here know lots more about it, it's content, and what it is based on than you do. That does not make you ignorant, perhaps just younger, or less apt to read and study. Enjoy your time here, and be sure to follow T&C.

Ah, the queen of heaven. Mentioned twice in the book of Jeremiah, but if you put those references in context you will find they are speaking of the pagan idol Ashtoreth not God himself. In the bible it is God who provides not Ashtoreth. Though I do agree in a way with the whole ordained ministers part. They are here to serve not be figure godheads.

But all I said was "that fish was good enough for Jehovah!".

And Christians call THAT blasphemy but don't seem to have a problem with the fact that the Council of Mycenae omitted much of God's work from The Bible?

Originally posted by aardvark888
As for all those other gods you listed - they are all false Gods. I don't think there is anyone who can't identify who the real God of the Bible is!

What's you're problem?

What if your god is the false one? You have a contingency plan for that when you get to the great sandy muslim gates in the sky?

What if they are all the same god and humanity is just too stupid to realize it? Would all those gods, that are the same one be happy with you calling him false?

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by aardvark888
reply to post by Ghost375

 

I'm sick and tired of hearing people say the Bible has been changed - the King James version of the Bible is the word of God as originally given to the original writers. There are no changes. Stop blindly accepting what anti-God people tell you!

LOL

I didn't know that Jesus and the apostles spoke the "King's English."

edit on 13-3-2012 by windword because: ocd

You didn't know? I guess you didn't see all those Jesus movies. Jesus made English popular. Before Jesus people spoke Aramaic and Greek. Part of God's mission was to introduce English into the world as a common language to better spread the word. English is God's language.

Hi guys,

I'm not sure: Is it possible to post a different point of view without being considered "angry" - especially if you post what seems to be rational? I've read the bible a lot and I like it a lot too - but I have differences of opinion with many on both sides of the fence.

I don't know that anything on the planet can be proven 100% - it is a relative world we live in. So, I don't think the bible can be proven 100% either. There has to be a point that one takes things on "faith".

That being said, the bible presents some historical facts as well as some stories (IMO), as well as some lessons and it includes prophecies.

There are two parts to the bible IMHO. Parts that could be understood clearly that enough people should be able to read and not debate enormously the meaning of the verses, and other parts that get debated quite hotly.

The bible is a book that was intended to be shared amongst people to give out knowledge. It isn't an all-encompassing book. So, for instance you won't find about about how to plant plants in the bible. On the other hand it serves as a book that expounds on doctrines concerning governance (leadership), and the general behaviour of the masses for living together in relative peace and harmony.

There *are* people that claim that the importance of the bible is in the religion it establishes. I personally beg to differ. It is a book. Books are not important to dogs or cats or mice or cockroaches. They are important to human beings, because it is a means to communicate ideas. The book in and of itself is not God. It is my contention therefore that the contents of the book was meant to change people... to teach.

It is those who are taught that is of importance to the God that gave us the bible.... Not those who claim to believe something they don't practice.... or simply go about with a lesson that a man turned in to god so "now I am saved" and the rest of the book is useless.

The authority of the book comes from the fact that "God is love", and it is through love, understanding and respect that human beings learn to co-operate in a successful society that hopes to perpetuate.

Yes, there are a lot of prophecies in the book. These are pieces - a lot of which I contend that people will not know the true meaning of until the very end of those very prophecies. It is not useless. It will become very clear in the end and will have proven that those who stuck to the valuable lessons that the book imparts will have fulfilled the prophecies of the book, and successfully survived. My contention of course - feel free to disagree.

There is no way in which the prophecies can be proven to be this or that. There are many archetypes for those prophecies that have occurred in time, and there are many archetypes that will occur in time. But the meaning of scripture is to leave us with the idea that "God" will establish his kingdom in this world, and these prophecies are somehow important towards the establishment of such.

Who would anyone knowing what all these prophecies meant, have to be after all? And what is he/she bringing as proof? There are so many miracles spoken of in the bible, which the people of the prophets' time have failed to believe... and there is a statement that the wicked generation will receive no signs except - "nothing miraculous". If you don't see miracles and those people that show signs are potentially deceivers - who will you believe? So, believing in a God sent individual has to be about finding someone who might be somewhere in between? or maybe not... it's anyone's guess from the wording of the bible. Certainly it is a search - the question: for what?

Wicked people: This is a hard nail to hit, but I will try. Perpetuation of society and its future depends on rules. (I know there are many who balk at rules, but I will explain). For instance, a car requires that you have tires on the wheels (in general), and not in front of the radiator. So, you won't find too many people attempting to drive a car by taking the rubber wheels off and stuffing it in front of the radiator. In the same manner societies governed by rules can work together to produce a survival and a good one at that (potentially). We are at this point, of course assuming the rules are perfect in and of themselves - not that this is possible, but for the sake of a finite discussion.

A caveman, might, given a car and all the conveniences we have to drive one, take the tires and rip them or hit the glass with his crudely carved club, and won't be able to use the car for anything good.

Just so with our society. It requires rules. For instance, we feel free to follow the rules of not running out in the middle of a busy road and blocking traffic. (not always the case, but mostly so). So, we are following the rule that if society keeps off of the streets we can all safely drive to and from work etc... and we have a working system. Imagine if everyone decided differently!

More to come....

reply to post by Vsc1981



"....You see the bible is God's work. We all know that. "

No,,,we don't all know that. There are a few (billion) of us that disagree....like this guy for instance

reply to post by autowrench


Genesis 1:26 was when all the races were created , these were people not gods . The sixth day creation of genesis was over two thousand years before Adam and Eve who Christ would come from . A day to God is a thousand years to man so the genesis story to the seventh day was seven thousand years.

Satan walked the earth at this point and along with his fallen angels corrupted man with all these false gods you named . You do not understand what you read because you don't rightly divide the word.

Text Bible prophecies fulfilled • End time prophecies from the Bible • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Jesus' birth • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Jesus' life • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Jesus' crucifixion • Other Bible prophecies involving Jesus • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Israel - part 1 • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Israel - part 2 • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Babylon • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Tyre • Bible prophecies fulfilled by Nineveh • Bible prophecies fulfilled by other nations

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by aardvark888

 

100prophecies.org... here is the link and I hope this helps




You would be of service to me and I would be grateful for it, if you could give me a few major examples.

reply to post by Onboard2

Hi, Onboard2.

That's interesting, Autowrench, but I didn't think even Jewish scholars could determine how to pronounce the four-letter name of god-YHWH.

Actually, in the Quabbala, the anagram is not pronounced, it is Vibrated. Vibrated at a certain pitch, and tone.

I believe it's Thomas that states they are not the highest god or the Pre-Existant One.

Your exerience is very interesting and the bible does tell us to worship nothing outside of ourselves. Maybe that's why Jesus was in your vision and not represented as a god, but as far as levels, the christ consciousness IS a very high level. He did state "Haven't ye read the scriptures, ye are gods".

I have had the pleasure of reading the Gospel of Thomas, Thomas, much like Christ, was a Gnostic, I believe. Humanity is the true God, all of us together. We are all Spirits of the Highest Order, and all together we are a Force to be reckoned with. Christ tried to tell them this, in fact, tried to tell them a lot of things, but did they listen? No, they made up stories, and made him into their only god, meaning it is Jesus the man, or no God at all, and I just cannot accept that. Just like I cannot accept that one has to be a Christian to know anything, be able to read the Bible, have a personal relationship with the Divine Presence. I also cannot accept that God, or Goddess, would ever author a book. Books can change, and often do, and anyone who says the Bible is unchanged since it's earliest texts are just uninformed.

Originally posted by Vsc1981
I'm new to ATS and so far I've enjoyed it. The motto for ATS is deny ignorance and I recently came across some ignorance from some people on ATS. You see the bible is God's work. We all know that. Its what He had people of His choosing to write so it could be preached and taught to the whole world so that His most loved creation could learn of Him and worship Him. So they could know of His commandments and follow them. And also to prepare for the second coming of Jesus. To warn of impending disasters to befall man and destroy His creation earth. He wants us to love and obey Him, and to fear Him. Not to worship false gods or prophets. To believe in only Him and only His word. Now these people that i mentioned seem to think that there is these other books that would have God contradicting Himself. Saying things like Jews aren't God's chosen people and He didn't give the land of Israel to the Jews. So i guess I'm just looking for some support on these issues.

If you want support, you'd be better served trying to get it from your pre-stone age mythical guy in a dress way up in the sky. Or maybe the baby raping perverts of the RC Church.