Has Reality Set In for Paulites Yet? What Will You Do??

Originally posted by six67seven
People still may not agree with this, because they may think it still matters. And in some cases it may, but I refuse to take part and vote for anyone other than RP. If he is not an option, I will not take part. At this point, I believe not taking part is the new showing up because if enough people refuse to vote, our voices will be heard. I know that's an oxymoron, but if there is nothing good to watch on tv.... you turn it off. And the more people that turn it off, the sooner the cable company realizes they need to offer more quality options.

I refuse and can't believe people still buy into this corrupt 'selection' system. Most accept the fact that the system is rigged, the world is run by bankers, the 1% decide everything because they throw money in every direction.... but then you go vote.... this makes no sense at all. That is the being a PAWN, nothing more, nothing less. You take part, but your 'taking part' is meaningless at best. It's a charade.

And some may say if we quit voting and taking part then they win, they will make and pass any law, regulation, policy that they want. THEY ALREADY DO! The fact is, we are going down. Everything they present as bills that don't pass is just a measuring stick, to see what they can get through at that time. If that collective bill doesn't get through, a new bill will be presented containing a portion of the bill that was rejected. It's called boiling the frog. People tend to notice when they are hit in the face, but if you continually step on toes and work your way up, people don't really mind. Couple that with the ungodly media and you have the boiling of america.

You may not like it, but they are right. Only a small 3% or so vote, the rest largely doesn't want to have anything to do with politics. By not voting, you are not refusing to be governed by these people, you are more accurately giving them the power. Not voting is not an act of discontent that anyone will see, its a submission.

That's the reason elections are so easily (and obviously) manipulated. Those few that still do vote, for the most part, either have something to gain from it or they are strictly left/right (peer pressure really, lol). So you have a nation of political orphans who don't want to be governed by the governing and an elite class that does the governing regardless, a recipe for disaster. Of course since no one is providing feedback via our "democratic" system, those that make the rules do whatever they want. You have a series of manufactured issues that are pointless in politics for the left/right to fight over while they slowly become the same thing under everyone's noses.

I have something to say about this and it is why I say that above about people who hold so strictly to the left/right scheme. Liberalism and conservatism are suppose to work harmoniously IMHO, not be a battleground for people that don't have enough to do. The democratic party is another version of the GOP, only slightly different in appearance and differing on irrelevant issues, that are largely either manufactured or put on the spot by the media. Other issues they fight about but don't actually change much if you watch, this gives some appearance that they oppose each other for the will of the people, nothing could be farther from the truth.

The Democratic Party evolved from Anti-Federalist factions that opposed the fiscal policies of Alexander Hamilton in the early 1790s. Thomas Jefferson and James Madison organized these factions into the Democratic-Republican Party. The party favored states' rights and strict adherence to the Constitution; it opposed a national bank and wealthy, moneyed interests.

Sound familiar? Outkast Searcher should love this one seeing how much of an Obama drone he is and yet hates Ron Paul. You don't have to be a mind reader to figure that is not what the democratic party is today. Oh and gets much much deeper too, if you read the stuff they don't mention in history books you will be surprised at who all turned out to be right after all these years, turns out that part was omitted from the books.

It's simple stuff really. We are a nation full of unrepresented people being told what to do by the ignorant and greedy, most people don't really want to have anything to do with the politics or the system. That's why 3% of people vote and indirectly that's why we have the largest prison population in the world, proportionally and literally. The federal government has quite literally become what our ancestors fought for independence against to create this nation, give an idiot a nickel and he'll become a tyrant. Sooner or later, the S will H the F and the followers will be following something else and completely ignoring what they thought they were before.

Nothing is just going to get better on its own, the complexity that is American politics will just get worse and worse for the average joe until something happens. That's why the word "change" has such a profound impact on people.

But no, we are going to argue about "reality" setting in when it's quite obvious most people are vastly ignorant of what reality even is.

reply to post by MajorKarma

I'm not sure who is more of an idiot, you are Seabiscut. If you knew anything about Ron Paul, you would know he is not in it for money and certainly not to sell books but I can tell you this, people like me will enjoying seeing people like you get everything you have earned...from a distance mind you.

What have I said about RP that is inaccurate, MajorKopout?

Are you one of the head-hung-low who still thinks there’s a chance?

I think RP is in it for the right reasons; he’s an honest enough guy. Enough people just don’t want him to be POTUS, that’s all.

Will you vote for a Romney/Paul ticket in November?

reply to post by RSF77

It's simple stuff really. We are a nation full of unrepresented people being told what to do by the ignorant and greedy, most people don't really want to have anything to do with the politics or the system. That's why 3% of people vote and indirectly that's why we have the largest prison population in the world, proportionally and literally. The federal government has quite literally become what our ancestors fought for independence against to create this nation, give an idiot a nickel and he'll become a tyrant. Sooner or later, the S will H the F and the followers will be following something else and completely ignoring what they thought they were before.

Nothing is just going to get better on its own, the complexity that is American politics will just get worse and worse for the average joe until something happens. That's why the word "change" has such a profound impact on people.

But no, we are going to argue about "reality" setting in when it's quite obvious most people are vastly ignorant of what reality even is.

Though I only quoted a portion, your entire post was very good and I think you’re right for the most part!

I take exception with this part though:

The democratic party is another version of the GOP, only slightly different in appearance and differing on irrelevant issues, that are largely either manufactured or put on the spot by the media

This is partially correct IMO. While this may be true of the democratic and republican parties, the bases behind those parties have vastly different views on how society should run (2 examples – Pro-Choice vs Pro-Life and big government vs limited government) and these issues should not be dismissed as irrelevent. Unfortunately the 2 current parties have blended together with only a few extreme positions to differentiate them.

I think our problem lies in the 2 party system (we have a lack of choice), we have a lack of engaged citizens (as you pointed out), and we need serious campaign finance reform to keep special interest money of ALL kinds out of DC so the rich can’t buy elections.

The question is how to get there. I agree that RP has some of the best views in this regard but without a congress full of likeminded people nothing will change. I also don’t think RP’s foreign policy is adequate to deal with the threats we face (he blames US for the problems), which is the largest point of contention many within the Tea Party (that I’ve talked to) have.

reply to post by RSF77


In my previous post I forgot to mention something...

One of the most frustrating things I hear when I engage people about politics and the importance of voting is that they believe their vote doesn’t matter. This is the #1 reason IMO for the extremely low number of engaged people. If we as a nation don’t step up and ensure that our election process is free from corruption then WE lose and we’ll never get things fixed.

I’m SHOCKED at the outrage by some people over voter verification in recent days! This is NOT an attempt to dissuade voting it’s a matter of insuring the accuracy of the voting process. Anybody who is fighting against voter verification is screwing us over.

The comparisons between Obama and Romney are too great....no way a true conservative could vote for him. (Romneycare anyone?)

People are starting to draw lines in the sand - NO MORE VOTING FOR THE LESSER EVIL.

reply to post by MidnightTide

The comparisons between Obama and Romney are too great....no way a true conservative could vote for him. (Romneycare anyone?)

People are starting to draw lines in the sand - NO MORE VOTING FOR THE LESSER EVIL.

If you don’t vote then we’ll get the more evil one!

Your choice!

I’m of the opinion that if I do everything I can do to get the candidate I WANT in the primary and it doesn’t work, I have to vote for the lesser of two evils and continue to work on other campaigns. Though the POTUS is important, there are many other congressional races this cycle that are very important too. So, as usual, I’ll win some and lose some. At least I can say I was engaged and not a cry baby.

Originally posted by seabag
This is partially correct IMO. While this may be true of the democratic and republican parties, the bases behind those parties have vastly different views on how society should run (2 examples – Pro-Choice vs Pro-Life and big government vs limited government) and these issues should not be dismissed as irrelevent. Unfortunately the 2 current parties have blended together with only a few extreme positions to differentiate them.

I guess we just differ in opinion here. I see abortion as an irrelevant issue in politics and possibly unconstitutional considering its largely a religious issue, I can see how it might become more and more important as our population grows. I suppose that will be a major milestone in our future, how to take care of so many people with only limited space and resources. I can only hope that an answer can be found without the government telling us who can and can't have however many kids, that is not a pleasant thought for me. Neither is abortion, though I think voluntarily abortion might become almost necessary in the future. The world will surely be changing as time goes on. I'm rambling on a bit about this though so I'll stop, sorry.

As far as the democratic party and limited government, I don't think they really intend to limit government. The federal and to some extent state government already has its hands in way too much IMHO, small businesses have trouble getting off the ground because of the overhead they have to pay for various things. There are always little oddities that fall on the shoulders of the "smallest authority", for example:

If a section of a city streets plumbing doesn't meet code they will wait for someone to build there, or be opportunistic about it and make the contractor tear up the street themselves while installing the plumbing for whatever they are currently working on, even though the street falls outside of the property line. This can cost upwards of several thousand of dollars and depending on the size of the project it may not even be worth doing, so the entire civil construction project may be cancelled because of city legislation. This is only a small, local example, but things like the are rampant across America everywhere and the financial responsibility is always on civil society.

So what I am trying to eventually get around to is that the government is already very large and controlling, a democratic party preaching limited government isn't doing their job. They may make minute changes here and there, but nothing that has much of a real life benefit. It's basically taking a mole hill out of a mountain, you still have pretty much all of the mountain regardless of which party advocates removing a mole hill or not. Sorry if that is hard to understand, I have a weird way of explaining things sometimes.

Both the republican and the democratic party are for big government I think, the stance of the democratic party is just a sort of "straw man" I think, if you could call it that. A rallying point for people pissed off at the government for interfering with their lives, so that big government can actually continue to exist without question. We already have big government, so if it isn't being reduced it's still big government.

Once again Ron Paul is sort of democratish on this issue, then I again I am the one talking about harmony between liberalism and conservatism. I don't mean to argue about this, it seems we are both pretty much on the same thing here, I just have a habit of typing too much.

Originally posted by seabag
I think our problem lies in the 2 party system (we have a lack of choice), we have a lack of engaged citizens (as you pointed out), and we need serious campaign finance reform to keep special interest money of ALL kinds out of DC so the rich can’t buy elections.

The question is how to get there. I agree that RP has some of the best views in this regard but without a congress full of likeminded people nothing will change. I also don’t think RP’s foreign policy is adequate to deal with the threats we face (he blames US for the problems), which is the largest point of contention many within the Tea Party (that I’ve talked to) have.

Yea, I guess that's why they call it a Ron Paul revolution, I think a lot of Ron Paul supporters are these disengaged citizens, myself included. That makes me a bit of a hypocrite about the voting speech in the other post, though it wasn't until Ron Paul that I actually started caring about politics, I guess I should thank him for that.

As for how we get there, I can only hope its through the involvement of the majority of Americans. Though it is only my opinion, I don't think anything is going to change by itself and the alternative of a civil reform is a violent one, an unprecedented one at that. We are the most powerful nation in the world after all.

reply to post by seabag


I wholeheartedly agree, though you can't really force people to vote. I think a lot of people don't get involved because it's a complex mess full of malicious rich people. Though here in the past decade or so, support has been mounting for and against civil groups created for the purpose of laying claim on our leadership and our country. It will be interesting to see where it goes.

I was just reading this thread with some blatant propaganda from ABC. There are people standing up for our nation rather than the dollar, more and more people in last few years and more everyday. I don't think Americans are going to lay down and accept 1984, the novel, as reality one day. I think it will be a delicate balancing act (as it really always has I suppose), but sooner or later somebody is bound to fall off. I see it as a good thing that more people are getting involved and informed about the stuff their representatives do, I've convinced a few people to be a bit more aware of politics and world events myself.

History is interesting, because you can draw parallels with other cultures (no not so much talking about that holocaust in America thread a while back, that was a bit ridiculous) and you can see the same things happening all over again. The problem seems to be money, the system of money and worth always seems to lead to war. One small group becomes too powerful and the majority are oppressed almost automatically according to human nature, until the majority starts cutting off heads. Reminds me of the myth of the hydra, every time you cut one head off a new one grows.

I've brought this up in other threads, but not many people seem interested. I think there is some good philosophy in PROUT theory about this, you can read about it if you want:

Progressive utilization theory

Social cycle theory

Law of social cycle

I think there needs to be some interest in this, more so than it is. But at the end of the day I think maybe they don't account for human nature much like what ills communism, capitalism, democracy or any other system of government or accountability. I guess, if I am not getting to deep into this, we need to fix ourselves before we try and fix our idealisms. We are slowly working our way towards equal and fair law and government I think, problem is it takes hundreds of years to recycle old ones due to the people profiting from it also controlling it. I think there is something to learn from every form of government, each one has a point what to do, what not to do, etc.

I tend to ramble and get off topic, so my bad for the large blocks of text. I guess its better than trolling for/against Ron Paul for 50 pages though.

reply to post by Holodomor


so, more or less, like barry?
interesting.

cheers.

reply to post by seabag


It has nothing to do with storming off like children, but everything to do with the fact that the VP is nothing more than the official poisoned food tester.

Well that is possible but I meant it would happen due to the fact that people are tired of being blatantly lied to.

See your saying that it would be a bad thing; that's not necessarily so, it would be a president that was happy, hungry, and sleepy. This whole mythos of the lazy stoner is not true, yes we don't care for physical labor but that's what robotics are for, to enable are species to concentrate on mental work.

Please don't insult me because of my age, we are much smarter than given credit for. I completely understand the political view of Republicans, and don't like it, it allows others to infringe on personal freedoms.

I will agree people are not going to get what they want but that's because we have a republic and not a democracy.

Watch this and weep Republicans, and Democrats.

I would NOT support a Romney/Paul ticket.

It would be an ENDORSEMENT of Mitt Romney. And ANYTHING that "encourages" a SINGLE voter--especially adding Ron Paul's name to the ticket--to vote for Mitt Romney is a BETRAYAL of every principle that made me a Ron Paul supporter.

America will deserve whoever America elects. But, voters don't have to contribute to the corruption. And that is what voting for the "lesser evil" does. There isn't any such thing as "lesser evil". After a certain point it doesn't have levels.

Mitt Romney's Foreign Policy "White Paper" www.mittromney.com...

www.washingtonpost.com...

Mitt Romney on Civil Liberty and Human Rights: www.youtube.com...

Romney:“As president, I will empower all relevant military, intelligence, and homeland security agencies with the appropriate legal authority...to dismantle terrorist groups and prevent terrorist attacks on our homeland and on targets abroad.”

Life, (and that includes FOREIGN LIVES that get in the way of bombs in UNPROVOKED war) liberty and justice for all ARE non-negotiable.

I am considering writing in Ron Paul's name. I am considering voting for Gary Johnson. I MIGHT even end up renting vans to BUS people to voting sites to vote for Obama (if Obama keeps to his more reasonable stance on war with Iran). The GOP does not deserve one iota of consideration JUST BECAUSE of their warmongering.

NOTHING...not even Ron Paul's name on the ballot...will force me to vote for Mitt Romney, NOT EVER.

And I was NOT one who voted for "hope and change" in 2008. I regret that. I WISH NOW I had NOT wasted my vote on McCain (and certainly NOT Obama). I WISH that I and OTHERS had voted our conscience ALWAYS. McCain would have been awful as president. JUST AS BAD as OBAMA.

If we just keep accepting what the corrupt politicians and their corrupt shills (the media) shoves down our throats things will NEVER get better.

In my opinion.

Originally posted by six67seven

The fact that the populace is so braindead makes this all possible. There are plenty of idiots out there completing the job for the elite. Nail... meet coffin

I wonder how many here would have voted for the Patriot Act and such things. Nearly all the Congress did. Ron Paul did not. Many here might agree that is bad legislation but they will support candidates that support that sort of law making. That to me is the sort of issue that makes Ron Paul the only obvious choice in this election, the kind of thing that is important enough to all Americans that voters are crossing-over to Paul even when they may disagree with other of his ideals.

This is about your future freedom folks. That is not something to toss away lightly. Once it's gone you'll likely never get it back, and you really don't have that much left of it.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Breaking (but not shocking) news!!

RP DEAD LAST tonight in Mississippi and Alabama!

It won't change anything in my life one iota if Ron Paul drops out.

Unfortunately, it would have made major changes in everyone's lives had he of one the Presidency, and it's likely these changes won't come to pass.

I remain a huge supporter of Dr Paul, and of those calling themselves true Conservatives, if you look at his record compared to the other candidates, tune out what the media say about any of them, and make your own decision based on the facts, it might be interesting to see what you think.

I challenge everyone to turn off the television for a MONTH, and avoid websites that report what's so laughingly these days called "the news", and do your own research into the voting records of these candidates on all issues.

It will blow your mind, and you will question why ANY registered Republican would ever vote for Romney, Santorum, Gingrich, Palin, McCain, Christie, Jindahl, J Bush, Giuliani, or Donald Trump as real or imagined candidates.

Don't really know what I'm going to do, but I do know what I'm not going to do. I'm not going to vote for Romney come November. The disenfranchisement of Paul voters is something that could very well come back to haunt the GOP if it's close in November.

Most Ron Paul supporters would not support him on any ticket as a VP candidate.

A Romney/Paul, Santorum/Paul, Gingrich/Paul or Palin (god help us after a brokered convention)/Paul ticket would be regarded as a sell out to the mainstream GOP by Dr Paul by his supporters.

People support Dr Paul because he is his own man. The minute he throws in with one of these clowns as a VP, he will lose that distinction and that support.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Breaking (but not shocking) news!!

RP DEAD LAST tonight in Mississippi and Alabama!

We will see who has got the delegates.

Romney is very like Obama and Santorum is hardly a conservative himself when you look at his voting history. Why would I vote for an Obama clone? Neither of them have what it takes to defeat Obama.....so perhaps you should be asking yourself, if I don't want 4 more years of Obama, I should vote for Ron Paul.

The GOP should save themselves some time, your not going to convince us to support some RINO. (many of us did that for McCain, and what a joke that was) The GOP should also note, Ron Paul has the support of the youth and has the ability to bring in dissatisfied Democrats, the more the GOP slams Ron Paul your placing your party in the grave.

Just look at our current VP and u will get the picture real quick. This was the first time I considered Obama not the change we all wanted and hoped for. As soon as Bieden was mentioned I cringed, when Clinton was mentioned I threw up. That is how bad Obama screwed up his first term. If Obama really wanted change he would of had RP on his cabinet Day 1.

Now, RP as VP with Romney? LOL. There will never be a VP who will get more applause than the POTUS. If RP is VP Romney will look like a moron as POTUS. Santorum.. LOL. Gingrich...LOL. I guess Santorum has a chance but that would give Obama the POTUS in a landslide. At least Romney and Obama will cancel each other out in a way cuz all they will do is Congratulate each other on passing a Health Bill.

RP for Treasury....now that is a thought. Or, how a bout secretary of defence?? Now that would be something. Other than those two posts I dont see him being involved at all.

I will vote for RP no matter what, either write in or if he runs independent. I have NEVER voted in my life because there has never been someone that I could vote for. There always too FAKE and you can tell there either already bought by someone of they for sure have an agenda.

I still think that the Tea Party thing was a set up from the beginning. If the Tea Party thing would have waited just a year or so I think it really could of helped RP. But, considering they started the whole Tea Party thing to Congressional seats it was a risk that was worth it at the time. The only thing the Tea Party didnt see coming was the Hijackers. Hmmmm. Interesting. CIA, FBI, etc didnt see the Hijackers either.

reply to post by KwisatzHaderach

Please don't insult me because of my age, we are much smarter than given credit for. I completely understand the political view of Republicans, and don't like it, it allows others to infringe on personal freedoms.

I didn't question your intelligence. It's common knowledge that young people tend to be more liberal and the older we get the more conservative we become (not everybody of course but most).  That's why I said I didn't expect you to understand because you weren't old enough. I believe your views will be vastly different when you become my age.

No insult intended!