Priest Warns Obama: Better Knock the Catholic Church Out NOW

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Like I stated in an earlier post ":Seperation of church, and state." is very misunderstood, and miscontrued in the current political arena. 1st it is NOT in the constitution anywhere. It is NOT a law. It is NOT a clause. It is inherent in the 1st amendment, and was coined by a COMMENT by Thomas Jefferson in the federalist papers, which are very important, but NOT LAW. We now quote "Seperation of church, and state." as though it were a law, IT IS NOT A LAW!!!!! Sorry to burst your bubble. Pedantically you have NO RIGHT TO SEPERATION OF CHURCH, AND STATE, IT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!! at least not as it's sycophants would have you believe.

Seperation of church, and state is the building of a wall of separation of the power of religion, and government by recognizing ALL religion equally, and not letting one overide, or suppress another. The exclusion of all morals, and ethics of traditional religion from government was not the purpose at all, in any way, shape , or form. To wield Jefferson's COMMENT in such a way would quite frankly make the great man roll over in his grave! I still can't believe people are still regurgitating this comment, and abusing it with such authority.

Originally posted by Binder
I still can't believe people are still regurgitating this comment, and abusing it with such authority.

When it comes to Separation of Church and State - - I go by court cases. This one is from 2005. There have been more since then.

The Court Affirms Separation of Church and State

Published: June 28, 2005

The Supreme Court reached opposite results yesterday in a pair of cases involving the Ten Commandments, upholding a display of the commandments on the grounds of the Texas Capitol, while striking down displays in Kentucky courthouses. The rulings will be criticized from all sides; we would have preferred the Texas case to have come out the other way. But taken together, they are an important reaffirmation of the nation's commitment to separation of church and state. www.nytimes.com...

reply to post by Annee


Perpetuation of a lie based on the rule of authority. Nice. We really are going to a hot place in a wicker basket at a high rate of speed.

Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by Annee

 

Perpetuation of a lie based on the rule of authority. Nice. We really are going to a hot place in a wicker basket at a high rate of speed.

You want to explain that?

reply to post by Annee


When the court upholds a misinformed decision based on incomplete information, used as a rallying cry in the 1960's during social reform, but not a vetable law in any way, shape, form, or fashion. We are in trouble. Research, and do some due diligence on the origins of "Seperation of church, and state." It has absolutely zero relevance to the manner in which it is construed today. For the Supreme court to further authorize this misconstrument shows blatant bias. I am not saying that religion should run government, not at all. I am saying it's blatant supression is just as much a crime. Religion is part of society. Government is a large part of the infrastructure of society. For it to supress, or be completely phobic of religion is an exercize in suicide. Read my first post on page 14. I am not advocating a "state church." or the rule of religion. But to be on the opposite end of the spectrum, in complete suppression, is just as dangerous, if not more so.

Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by Annee

 

When the court upholds a misinformed decision based on incomplete information, used as a rallying cry in the 1960's during social reform, but not a vetable law in any way, shape, form, or fashion. We are in trouble.

It just sounds like you don't like it and don't agree.

I've been watching the progression of legal court battles won - - supporting Separation of Church and State - - since the 1950s.

Religion does not belong in government. Religion continues to fight for the control they once had. It isn't going to happen - - because Separation of Church and State is as real as every court battle won.

reply to post by Annee


What happens when people who disagree with you start winning court battles, and displacing your freedoms to do as you wish? This support for legislation through jurisdiction is disturbing to say the least. The Judicial system does not, or at least should not MAKE LAW. but they do today, and that is VERY dangerous. If you don't think so, I'm sorry. When they come for you, you will change your tune. Unfortunately it is an insideous disease. they probably won't come for you in your lifetime they will come for your grandchildren when the tide of popular opinion, or elite control paradigm turns. It is an assualt to freedom, agree, or disagree with the finer points.

What if the Supreme court ruled tomorrow that mandatory adoption for all unwanted infants must be sought, and that abortion was completely illegal, overturning Roe V. Wade? Would you be proudly touting the Supreme court in their infinite wisdom then? I would not support this either, but I am not heavily biased either.

Our current form of government in its purest form is Judeo-Christian agree or disagree. To say it has no place is like saying lime has no place in the making of concrete. It absolutely erroneous. The Magna Carta, the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America, and the vast majority of all great documents upon which current law in this country is founded was HEAVILY influenced by religion, and religous men. It's just fact. Religion is not perfect, or the absolute answer, but its tenants executed with benevolence, and common sense have been the cornerstone of the current era of unprecendented freedom on this planet. To walk away from those foundings so lightly is folly indeed.

Roe V. Wade, and Seperation of church, and state are both poorly written, and executed law. Most students of law regardless of personal leaning will agree. They are supported by popularity, not jurisprudence.

Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by Annee

 

What happens when people who disagree with you start winning court battles, and displacing your freedoms to do as you wish?

I have as much right to fight for legal Freedom from Religion - - as the Religious have to fight to force their belief on everyone.

Separation of Church and State - - - has been proven in court.

"I have as much right to fight for legal Freedom from Religion - - as the Religious have to fight to force their belief on everyone.

Separation of Church and State - - - has been proven in court."



You absolutely have the right to freedom from religion, no argument there. The religious have no right to "force" anything upon you. The obverse side of that same argument is that you also have no right to force anything upon the religious. This is what true seperation of church, and state is all about. However the common humanity advanced by the "religious" in the past is the basis upon which your right to have that freedom exists. Not religious extremists, but true enlightened spiritual individuals of all religions, and backgrounds.

To shun all religious views as inherently flawed, and unacceptable for the legislation of law is a dangerous, and slippery slope. One upon which we have already begun to slide. Just because something was "proven in court." does not make it right, ethical, or ultimately correct. Courts are run by humans with flaws, and agendas. Those agendas change, those flaws manifest in different ways. There is too much modern tendency to look at the failure of religion in the past, and overlook its benefits, and what it got right. The crusades were wrong, but not all crusaders were monsters. The inquisition was wrong. The athiests of the soviet KGB who murdered children were also wrong, see the pattern? We should be able to sift the wheat from the chaff in religion. If it is oppressive of some other group then we cannot embrace it. If it is liberating to all then we embrace it, regardless of what religion the original idea came from. True freedom requires a high level of personal responsibility, I think that is the core of our problems as a society. Were we all grateful, and aware of the powerful nature of freedom we would have more of it.

"Freedom is not the right to do what we want, but what we ought,..." - Abraham Lincoln.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by Annee

 

What happens when people who disagree with you start winning court battles, and displacing your freedoms to do as you wish?

I have as much right to fight for legal Freedom from Religion - - as the Religious have to fight to force their belief on everyone.

Separation of Church and State - - - has been proven in court.

The courts aren't always right. There are many unjust laws, you know
one of them, making abortion legal. The right to kill your baby.

I am interested, what are you going to do if you find at your death,
everything Christians tried to share with you is true?

Your soul is eternal. We determine where we go by the life we lived.

What are you going to do? Pray, that's not a difficult thing, ask God
the Father to send you the "grace" to believe in Him. He will Annee.

Originally posted by Binder
However the common humanity advanced by the "religious" in the past is the basis upon which your right to have that freedom exists. Not religious extremists, but true enlightened spiritual individuals of all religions, and backgrounds.

Really trying to hold on to your religion - aren't you? I'm not interested.

Our founding fathers were mostly Deists - Agnostics - and maybe at least one Atheist. Christan values - doesn't have any special meaning. Any Ethical person - including Atheists understand "treat others as you wish to be treated".

. . . . and of course - - you had to throw in the KGB murdering Atheists.

You are on a personal rant.

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Any employee of a corporate business - - - should not be forced to abide by any religious belief.

Employees were not hired because of their religious belief - - which is illegal. So if its illegal to hire only Catholics - - - why is it OK for that corporate business to force employees to adhere to Catholic belief?

Someone had a weak spot for religion when they allowed this to be OK. It is NOT OK.

Obama came up with the right compromise. Catholics need to shut up now.

I could only stand to watch about 1 minute of that hatful man who expects others to call him "father" while trying to get others to approve of laws that remove women's rights to control their own body's health.

For me its clear, the defining moment = BIRTH. Before that fetuses are BODY parts. After that they are citizens and people. Volating that definion while adding murderous accuastions bluntly across the full spectrum of women who have had to deal with personal crisis of many sorts demonstrates his hate. yuck.

If he were truly concerned about the nubmer of abortions and birth control events then he might try better education about petting and abstinence and how it might give God a chance in people's lives. But instead of teaching anything about God, he laid out accusation upon accusation (even in the 1st minuet of all I could tolerate). Rev 12:10 defines Satan as the accuser..

Oh and a close friend once punched herself for an abortion that was denied, even though her friends had given her the money to pay for it. It took her 3 months to do - horible. She would have died before birthing that fetus in those circumstances. Her other 2 boys and their dads are happy ever after. Life isn't black/white unless you want to make slaves out of your religious foolowers.

So let me get this straight, our tax dollars shouldn't fund abortions, thus forcing women who don't really have the money to get abortions to have children, which then destroys their lives, all because of some stupid book? No thanks. Let's drop the selfishness and actually behave like a society. I don't care what any god says, a woman's body is her own, she decides what to do with said body. If there is a parasite in said body, she has the right to rid herself of it.

Outlawing abortion doesn't even fix anything; do you really think that if a woman is opposed to having a kid, making it harder for her to abort is going to prevent her from performing a DIY abortion with a coathanger or a baseball bat? Abortion is a non-issue; we need to stop letting it distract us from actual matters at hand, like global financial collapse. Let me put it this way, if the economy tanks, we won't have to bicker over whether we should fund Planned Parenthood.

reply to post by Annee


Have you even read my original post? Obviously not, or you would not be accusing me of pushing religion. The Athiest statement was a reminder that atrocities occur within the human condition regardless of religion, or even lack thereof.

I am not on a personal rant. I am on a national rant, a societal rant. YOUR freedom is being infrimged upon whether you realise it or not. I find it sad that you are rooting for your oppressors. Just because you like the flavor of their cool aid today you are all for it. What about tomorrow Annee? What happens when your judicial juggernaut runs you over? You will be powerless to defend yourself because legal presidence was set with all those whacko religious goofs. What happens when the court of popularity decides you are the whacko goof, and you need some wind taken out of your sails? Karma is a bitch.

Originally posted by Binder
reply to post by Annee

 

Have you even read my original post? Obviously not, or you would not be accusing me of pushing religion. The Athiest statement was a reminder that atrocities occur within the human condition regardless of religion, or even lack thereof.

I don't think we have anymore to say to each other.

Not buying your explanation of throwing in the KGB Atheist murderers. You've made other statements - - that you later tried to justify by changing your approach.

reply to post by Annee


Hmm... a closed mind. You seem rather liberal in most of your approaches, but I guess seeing anothers perspective isn't in your bag of tricks. I never changed my approach. Nice attempt at deflection though. You're right though, you've closed your mind so there really isn't anything else to say. I hope if the day comes that there are enlightened people, both religious, and not that will come to your defense when your beloved system turns on you.

Originally posted by adigregorio
You know, at first I was on the Catholics' side.

Then, well then I remembered that those same priests like to touch little boys...

Now, well now I don't really care what happens. I am still "kinda" on their side, but I want to see karma in action. Sorry, but I am human.

The minority of pedophile priests are not at issue here. In fact, the priests who have been adamant about retaining orthodoxy and fighting for traditional Catholicism are the least likely to have committed these disgusting acts. It's the loopy, liberal priests who want to be everyone's friend who have been the culprits. They joined seminary not out of devotion and piety, but because the celibate lifestyle seemed a good choice for closeted homosexuals, and the trust of the laymen gave them easy access to children.

These rotten priests have preyed on the Church and used Her for their wickedness.

We Catholics who care about abortion are the first to say that these pedophile scum should be served total justice for their crimes.

My point is simply, do not condemn the Church or Her near 1 billion members due to these monsters.

reply to post by seabag
good catolic church wants to have its say fine we are a country og free speach and religious freedom and i am not a fan of obama by any means but if they are gonna start making threats i think now is the time to make catholic corporation pay taxes on every dollar they take in.the whole reason they against contraception and aboration is because if people aint popping outnewbabies all the time then their profit base drops. they are a company just like ptl. they have lots of hospitals and they even have a huge bank that lends money to countries for christ sake.

Originally posted by AntoniusBlock
In fact, the priests who have been adamant about retaining orthodoxy and fighting for traditional Catholicism are the least likely to have committed these disgusting acts. It's the loopy, liberal priests who want to be everyone's friend who have been the culprits.

What a pathetic post. Really sick.

Some people will use anything to attack their own Fears.

Pedophiles are Pedophiles. They are not Liberal or Conservative.

Originally posted by proteus33
reply to post by seabag

 

good catolic church wants to have its say fine we are a country og free speach and religious freedom and i am not a fan of obama by any means but if they are gonna start making threats i think now is the time to make catholic corporation pay taxes on every dollar they take in.the whole reason they against contraception and aboration is because if people aint popping outnewbabies all the time then their profit base drops. they are a company just like ptl. they have lots of hospitals and they even have a huge bank that lends money to countries for XXX sake.

Your comments are ignorant and false proteus. The Catholic Church was threatened by Obama not the other way around.

For the 15th time....

The Catholic Church is the true faith not a company, their desire to be loving, to be Christlike is evidenced now for two centuries in places called orphanages, schools and hospitals worldwide and something called Catholic Charities.

Correction, abortion and contraception have always been a grave sin. You don't believe so you attack the Church. It's been a teaching for 2000
years and earlier in the Old Covenant.

You are going against God and more stupidity, to call birth, a new life
a money maker, bogus. You want the self gratification with no consequences.

Advise for pro-aborts, get right with God, your soul is at stake.


may the Two Hearts J+M keep you safe,


colbe