Priest Warns Obama: Better Knock the Catholic Church Out NOW

Originally posted by FlyersFan
You do realize that this is 2012 and not the year 1200 .... right?
You do realize that less than 200,000 people (that's a high end estimate) died as a result of the crusades, inquisition and South American missionary work combined .. right?
You do realize this is the USA and we have a Constitution to follow ... right?
You do realize the Constitution protects a right to worship as we please .. right?

2012 or 1200? Hmmm, judging by the fact that right now we are literally arguing over the legality of birth control, and exactly how much power the Vatican should have over our government, its actually kinda hard to tell.

But oh, the Catholic Church only killed 200,000 people, thats not so bad. I dont think thats even felony nowadays, usually they just write you a ticket and send your on your way. Hell i probably killed a few thousand people on my way to work today without even realizing it.


(Just to make things a little clearer, the global population during the Crusades was about the same as the population of the USA right now. So imagine from that how "not big of a deal" the Catholic Church murdering 200,000 people would be. Only about 3,000 people died during 9/11)

reply to post by aching_knuckles


You seem to no so much about Muslims, were you a soldier who served in the Middle East? I was and my whole squad was saved by a Muslim man. Let's not generalize every group, that's a very dangerous road to go down
you know...the dark side of the force!

Originally posted by seabag
My main beef is that I don’t want Obamacare. I REALLY don’t want Obamacare to include abortion and contraception coverage for ANYONE because I'm pro-life and don't think the government should be holding people's hands.

My main beef is that people think that they can meddle in my affairs. I have 3 kids. My wife has had her tubes tied to prevent pregnancy. If she gets pregnant again and we don't want to keep it, that's my freaking choice... not yours.

But I guess you'd rather for your tax dollars to go toward the child living in a foster home for who knows how long in hopes of being adopted. Furthermore the child being picked on and having low self esteem causing her to do drugs, get pregnant, give her child up, not do well in school, seek welfare upon turning 18 etc. Yep... that makes much more since.

Sorry... but those 10s of thousands of your tax dollars could go toward building the country while you spend 5 dollars extra per month of health insurance which will rise anyways because vehicle emissions cause more people the get lung cancer, or the ozone depletion causes more people to get skin cancer.

My business is not your business... no matter how you try to think of it.

Originally posted by Superabound
judging by the fact that right now we are literally arguing over the legality of birth control, and exactly how much power the Vatican should have over our government, its actually kinda hard to tell.

Oh brother.
1 - No one is arguing over the legality of birth control. that's beyond absurd.
2 - No one is arguing over how much power the Vatican should have over our government.

People are discussing their First Amendment rights and that the US government is overstepping it's mandate. For you to say it's a Vatican power thing or a arguement over 'legality of birth control' ... that's just pathetic. :shk:

But oh, the Catholic Church only killed 200,000 people, thats not so bad.

But oh, the insinuation from the post I was responding to was that it was millions and millions.
That simply is not true.
And 200,000 is a high end estimate. Most sources have it much lower ... 30,000-80,000

Again .. this is 2012 .. not 1200 .... try again.

Agree with the priest or not, he is correct in his statement that the Catholic Church is a sleeping giant:

The Catholic Church in the United States is part of the worldwide Catholic Church, the Christian Church in full communion with the Pope. With more than 68.5 million registered members, it is the largest single religious denomination in the United States, comprising about 22 percent of the population.[1] According to a new 2011 study by the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate at Georgetown University, "The US Catholic population is currently 77.7 million."[2] The United States has the fourth largest Catholic population in the world, after Brazil, Mexico, and the Philippines.

Clergy, lay ministers and employees

The Church has over 41,406 diocesan and religious-order priests in the United States; over 30,000 lay ministers (80 percent of them women); 17,000 men who are ordained as permanent deacons in the United States (a permanent deacon is a man, either married or single, who is ordained to the order of deacons, the first of three ranks in ordained ministry;[14] they assist priests in administrative and pastoral roles); 63,032 sisters; 5,040 brothers; 16 US cardinals; 424 active and retired US bishops; and 5,029 seminarians enrolled in the United States. Overall, it employs more than one million employees with an operating budget of nearly $100 billion to run parishes, diocesan primary and secondary schools, nursing homes, retreat centers, diocesan hospitals, and other charitable institutions.[15] Catholic schools educate 2.7 million students in the United States, employing 150,000 teachers.

Catholic Church in the United States

Significant demographic no?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Annee

 

As an adult, Hitler had no respect for the Church (many Catholics found their way to concentration camps) he was vehemently against organized religion, and believed the State trumped everything save a spiritual connection. To be raised a Catholic doesn't make you Catholic.. you have to actually practice the religion, which he did not.

Depends on which book you read.

Yeah Yeah - - - Christians use the same argument every time a Christian blows up an abortion clinic. "He wasn't a REAL Christian".

reply to post by seabag

Will your vote be strictly about the economy and jobs or will this issue play a role in your decision making process this November?

If you really started this thread just to ask whether the voters will feel this issue is important, then why use a highly provocative organization who is in effect calling for a "new crusade"....rather than just asking about the contraception/abortion issue?

Hidden agenda, perhaps?

In any case, No, my vote will not be swayed by this issue, but I am most definitely NOT going to vote for someone who is Santorum-minded regardless of his religious affiliation. He is a nutcase.

I agree with the posters who have pointed out the facts that:
*MANY "Catholic" women use birth control despite the RCC condemnation of it

*More people are fleeing the Church(es) as they are being made aware of the prior ignorance under which they knelt and prayed

*The population is too large as it is with the political-economic system we have now. If humanity decides that every conceived human being must be given a say, then they need to reorganize into smaller, self-sustaining communities that ensure that ALL citizens (including embryos and fetuses) are going to be welcomed and more importantly CARED FOR, by the COLLECTIVE SOCIETY.

*Unwanted babies are at the mercy of the "say" of society...either kept and exploited, sold, or given up for adoption. Furthermore, when a person of child-bearing age realizes THEY ARE NOT READY to be a parent, should we not give them the benefit of the doubt? Like when in a new relationship with peers, if a guy tells a gal that he's a "black sheep", she oughta listen....do we want to deal with these unwanted infants' needs? Welfare or prison is the alternative.

What really scares me about that questionable choice of video and slant on the issue is that this guy having his "say" repeatedly says he's a "teacher of young people." Accckkkk!! Red flag, folks, red flag.

My vote will be cast (if I vote) on grounds of a fascist government, no jobs, poor economy and foreign policy. In fact, if there were a candidate calling for not only separation of Church and State, but the abolishing of Religion altogether, I'd possibly vote for them on that issue alone! Yes, take away their tax-exempt status, dethrone the Pope, and take their assets to pay down the debt. They are liars anyway.

Originally posted by BayesLike
reply to post by JizzyMcButter

 

There is no separation of Church and State, the clause prohibits the establishment of a religion.

I would check legal precedence set by court cases won - if I were you.

Originally posted by Bob Sholtz
she has the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. what happiness she pursues is her choice, and on her dollar. people these days want all the fun and none of the responsibility. get a vibrator lady.

She - She - She

What? No He - He - He?

Can we destroy both sides and start from scratch?

Am I missing something...
If Obamacare does pass, why would contraceptives and abortions NOT be covered?
Aside from the fact that most insurances already do cover these...

Do people even realize how much $$$ it even costs just to birth a child, let alone raise and take care of one? The government and its insurance would save enormously by providing contraceptives and abortion long term, just like current insurance does.

And this is exactly why most insurances cover preventative treatments in general!

For anyone who is against this purely as a monetary issue...well that's just plain silly.

reply to post by Annee


You are obsessed with keeping things all messed up, and having the tech at the ready to slaughter...oh wait too you it is different.

It is amazing that even Seabag disagrees with you,, hilarious thread keep it up !!

reply to post by seabag


Oh how stupid. The Catholic Church is meaningless. 96% of it's parishioners ignore the Church's position on birth control. They don't care what the Vatican says or does.

Take care of your pedophilia problem.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by Annee

 

You are obsessed with keeping things all messed up, and having the tech at the ready to slaughter...oh wait too you it is different.

It is amazing that even Seabag disagrees with you,, hilarious thread keep it up !!

Not sure what you mean.

I value life greatly. I value the living.

I value a living planet - - that is used and abused.

There is not One unselfish reason to bring another child into this world.

There are many unselfish reasons not to.

reply to post by seabag

Doesn't the issue of life and death extend far beyond the realm of religious ideology?

No, the issue of life and death ends at eternity. When you get into the issue of saying unborn babies are not individuals or do not have a "moral right to life" you're on a slippery slope and you will fall. When you take it upon yourself to decide who lives and who dies you have put yourself above Elohim (God) and you make yourself him.

For "pro-choicers" who advocate murder, ask yourselves where would you be today if your mother decided to snuff you out in the womb? All that you have become, all that you have learned and experienced, your first love, your first kiss, your first car, your first date, your first day at college, your first (and hopefully last) wedding. These are the things you deny future generations when you advocate murdering them in the womb.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000


In that event I'd be better off and happy just for not having to deal with the mouth breathing religious zealots with no critical thinking skills.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
For "pro-choicers" who advocate murder, . .

That is YOUR belief.

You also choose your viewpoint from the emotions of a God believer.

Murder is a living child dying from hunger and horrible living conditions.

There is also Murder of a Living Planet by over population and exhaustion of natural resources.

Excuse me - - - that my consciousness focuses on what is already here - - and suffering needlessly.

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by seabag
My main beef is that I don’t want Obamacare. I REALLY don’t want Obamacare to include abortion and contraception coverage for ANYONE because I'm pro-life and don't think the government should be holding people's hands.

My main beef is that people think that they can meddle in my affairs. I have 3 kids. My wife has had her tubes tied to prevent pregnancy. If she gets pregnant again and we don't want to keep it, that's my freaking choice... not yours.

But I guess you'd rather for your tax dollars to go toward the child living in a foster home for who knows how long in hopes of being adopted. Furthermore the child being picked on and having low self esteem causing her to do drugs, get pregnant, give her child up, not do well in school, seek welfare upon turning 18 etc. Yep... that makes much more since.

Sorry... but those 10s of thousands of your tax dollars could go toward building the country while you spend 5 dollars extra per month of health insurance which will rise anyways because vehicle emissions cause more people the get lung cancer, or the ozone depletion causes more people to get skin cancer.

My business is not your business... no matter how you try to think of it.

While you claim that your business is nobody else's, you seem quite comfortable telling people they should be willing to pay an extra 5 bucks insurance to pay for your contraception, or somebody else's. Really, at a time when many people cannot afford premiums at all, how dare you suggest we should all pay more for you.

And by the way, your idea that we should all be willing to pay more because it's just going to rise anyway because of ozone depletion is just a crazy and mixed up perception. Paying an extra 5 dollars for people's contraceptives is fairly concrete, but for health insurance to go up over ozone depletion(I'm assuming you are referring to higher incidences of skin cancer) is not nearly as concrete and somehow the idea we should pay for one extra concrete thing because some not so concrete thing is going to cause insurance rates to go up, so heck we should just pay more all around... yah that is so logical...

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by SilentKillah

Originally posted by seabag
My main beef is that I don’t want Obamacare. I REALLY don’t want Obamacare to include abortion and contraception coverage for ANYONE because I'm pro-life and don't think the government should be holding people's hands.

My main beef is that people think that they can meddle in my affairs. I have 3 kids. My wife has had her tubes tied to prevent pregnancy. If she gets pregnant again and we don't want to keep it, that's my freaking choice... not yours.

But I guess you'd rather for your tax dollars to go toward the child living in a foster home for who knows how long in hopes of being adopted. Furthermore the child being picked on and having low self esteem causing her to do drugs, get pregnant, give her child up, not do well in school, seek welfare upon turning 18 etc. Yep... that makes much more since.

Sorry... but those 10s of thousands of your tax dollars could go toward building the country while you spend 5 dollars extra per month of health insurance which will rise anyways because vehicle emissions cause more people the get lung cancer, or the ozone depletion causes more people to get skin cancer.

My business is not your business... no matter how you try to think of it.

While you claim that your business is nobody else's, you seem quite comfortable telling people they should be willing to pay an extra 5 bucks insurance to pay for your contraception, or somebody else's. Really, at a time when many people cannot afford premiums at all, how dare you suggest we should all pay more for you.

Except for the fact that by providing contraceptives insurance premiums would most likely decline.
Birthing a child alone at a typical hospital can cost upwards of $30,000 without complications.
And this does not take into account followup medical care and cost of raising that child.

But that's cool. You go and complain about that .05 bulk condom that's inflating your insurance premium.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by Superabound
judging by the fact that right now we are literally arguing over the legality of birth control, and exactly how much power the Vatican should have over our government, its actually kinda hard to tell.

Oh brother.

1 - No one is arguing over the legality of birth control. that's beyond absurd.
2 - No one is arguing over how much power the Vatican should have over our government.

People are discussing their First Amendment rights and that the US government is overstepping it's mandate. For you to say it's a Vatican power thing or a arguement over 'legality of birth control' ... that's just pathetic. :shk:

We are having Congressional hearings full of Catholic bishops, and changing actual US law to specifically accomodate and incorporate Catholic beliefs. That is unconstitutional.

Rick Santorum, Catholic theocrat and potential Presidential nominee has flat out said he believes no one should be allowed to take birth control, and that if in power he will govern based entirely on his religious beliefs.

And 200,000 is a high end estimate. Most sources have it much lower ... 30,000-80,000

Oh, my mistake, only 30,000-80,000 cold blooded murders. For that you probably wouldnt even get a ticket, the cop would just let you off with a warning. But clearly, the Catholic Church takes their "Thou shalt not kill" belief VERY seriously.

And here we are talking about all the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people the Catholic Church killed, but like, have you ever tried thinking about all the people they DIDNT kill? Sometimes the Catholic Church only tortured people, thats no big deal. And its not like the Catholic Church murdered over 10,000 young children throughout the last half century, they only raped them. Child rape isnt all that bad right?