God's Way is Love!

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

Contrary to what many believe God's Way will always be based on love.

Yes..."love". I take it you're not talking about the bible, or the nonsense the current GOP candidates are spewing around

*snip*
I don't think "love" is an accurate description

Eating Pork - Leviticus 11:7

First off, I do not see where it says that eating pork is wrong, evil or unnatural - can you point that out for me? All I see is that it says it is unclean. Now, why does it say that? Let's put it this way; God never "makes up rules", whenever He says something, He means it. Now, why then, would eating pork be considered 'unclean'?

Well, here's one reason, for starters.

Eating Shellfish - Leviticus 11:9-12

Basically the same reason as above, but not necessarily liver cancer. Just as the Bible explains that cats, predatory animals, winged insects, etc, are all 'unclean', it's for a reason, a health advisory, if you will. Keep in mind, God doesn't punish anyone for Sins, it's the Sin that catches up to you - just as if you lie, you will be caught out.

Homosexuality - Leviticus 18:22

Yup, just like it says. However, do I believe Gays have the right to get married? Why, yes I do. I believe in free will, after all. Everyone and anyone has the right to do whatever they want. God doesn't like that gays are damaging the sanctity of marriage more so than it already is broken with all the divorces going on, but people will do whatever they desire.

Wearing Clothes of Mixed Fabrics - Leviticus 19:19

This one is interesting, and some see it as more of a spiritual message than literal. In Ecclesiastes 3:14, it declares not to separate what God has joined, and not to join together what god has separated. I believe this simply refers to, say for example the Jews and the modern day Christians. Jews believe in works, Christians believe in Faith, but you shouldn't mix the two together - a Christian who believes in faith and good works is unevenly yoked. I'll discuss this again further on.

Shaving - Leviticus 19:27

This is referring to the pagans who shaved their heads in order to appease certain false gods. Egyptians did similar practices. Nothing wrong with us doing it when it's hot outside.


Now, let's talk about the "morally fine and natural".

Slavery - Exodus 21:7

These were only in circumstances of EXTREME poverty; in which a man could sell his daughter into a WEALTHY home, where she would be cared for, and possibly married - something she herself was willing to do. If the man who bought her didn't take her as a wife or concubine, he could either give her to his son as a wife, or sell her to another home, as long as it was of the people of Israel. If he wasn't willing to do any of these three things, she was to be given back to her family.

Infinitely times better than what black people went through in the early years of America.

Rape - Deuteronomy 22:28-29

The crime of rape has plagued mankind almost since the beginning. God's Law mandated the death penalty be administered to a man who raped a woman. The stipulation, though, was that if it could be proven that the woman had not resisted, which meant that the act was really consentual at the time, and only later claimed as rape, they would both be put to death.
If the woman was not engaged and robbed her of her virginity, then he was to marry her. This tells us that there is no such thing as "casual sex." Imagine if you grew up knowing that the first person you had sex with was your marriage partner for life, with no possibility of divorce. If that were the case, Americans wouldn't treat it so casually.

"Child Abuse" - Proverbs 22:15
This isn't child abuse, this is discipline. Whenever it speaks about a "rod", it means discipline - if it meant to harm or kill, it would say "do not hold back the SWORD", but obviously God doesn't want that.

Honestly, if you do not discipline your child when he does wrong, you do not love your child. Yea, I got my ass whipped as a child, and I love my dad with all my heart.

Prejudice - 2 John 1:10
LOL ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Okay, this is not prejudice. Let's put it this way - if a man applies to become a Math teacher, and they ask him for his credentials, and he either doesn't have any, or he only has a degree in literature, should they give him the job? If you don't think they should, I got news for you.. YOU'RE PREJUDICE!

Misogyny - 1 Timothy 2:12

God has ordained man to be the head of the household - spiritually. Is this sexist? Not at all, there are dozens of reasons why not, but I've run out of room. For one clear example of a woman who was used in almost clear contradiction of this "law" by God Himself, see the Book of Esther.

Anyone, feel free to just think upon these things:

God as mankind perceives it is a growing concept. An ineffable concept.
God has no specific religion. Even a hardcore Atheist returns to him. Even a serial-killer eventually returns.
God is everything, and we are a part of that everything. We are One with it.
God is neither male (father) nor female (mother). It's the combination of the two made into one.
God does not support starving children, our ego and lack of love does (our egos separate us all).
Your ego is "Satan", the adversary. Liberate your ego and have abundant love.
The concept of "good vs evil" stems from Zoroastrianism among other religions. An ancient Babylonian religion.
There is no Hell (eternal damnation). It's a concept to enforce fear and control, just like the "devil" is.
Jesus was not ransomed for our salvation. That's absurd.
Jesus can be seen as one of many blueprints for mankind, and spread wisdom and love. Much of his life and his words are distorted to this day.
The story of Christ's virgin birth is identical to Buddha's (which came far earlier).
Angels were aliens and had no wings. So were demons.
God does not directly interfere with this life; our thoughts, hearts, and actions do.
God is the highest form of Love. The highest vibration. The supreme force behind all things.
Karma is real. We judge ourselves.
Rebirth/reincarnation, not resurrection.
God is felt, not seen. Look within with your single (third) eye to feel it and gain wisdom from it.
Don't be a blind sheep. Learn to question, learn to have an open-mind, learn to love all as one. Learn.

It's okay to disagree, it's okay to continue believing what you do. I've taken off the veil and these are just a few of the things I've witnessed. God is within you. If you want to truly feel it, look within you, not blindly quoting scriptures written by men thousands of years ago. The world is in bad shape because people keep quoting scriptures as excuses to stay in control of the situation out of fear of losing ground. Rather than love others as what they are, people rain their fundamentalist views onto others effectively alienating them. We are One, that's it. Alienate me, you alienate yourself, you alienate God.

Cheers.

reply to post by HangTheTraitors

This "god" must've somehow left the following verse out of his little "holy" book:

"For god so loved the world, he generously allows overwhelming amounts of pain, suffering, misery, torment, and hunger to millions and millions of innocent children everywhere".

Actually, it is mentioned. Just read Matthew 22:37-40, which it speaks of the two great commandments.The first and foremost is "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. ", and the second is like the first one "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

The reason that i mentioned it is, if you truly love your neighbor, you would feed him when he is hungry, you will give him water when he is thirsty, you will comfort him when he is in sorrow. Because if you love your neighbor, you love God.

Here is an excerpt from Matthew Chapter 25

"Then the King will say to those on His right, 'Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' Matthew 25:34-36

As you can clearly see, God did not forget to include the verse that you mentioned on your post. See, is not that God does not care, it´s man who doesn´t. All man do, is blaming God for the world we are living in.

Peace

Originally posted by MrXYZ

Originally posted by edmc^2
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Coming from an atheist like you MrXYZ what can one expect.

Nothing but twisting of the scriptures.

tc

No twisting...go read the bible. The quoted parts say EXACTLY what's on that picture I posted

And just fyi, using "atheist" as an ad hominem attack to start off your post isn't all that clever considering atheists would consider this a compliment

too bad thread got moved to bts - i guess it's not conspiratorial enuff for the mods anyway looks like Lionhearte touch on some of it already.

So let me pick up the rest:

you claim that 2 John 1:10 is "Prejudice". The truth, it's not.

Let's look at the texts:

10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; - 2Jo 1:10 NKJV

What is the apostle John talking about here? It's about the teaching or "doctrine" of Christ.

v9:

9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. - 2Jo 1:9 NKJV

v11:
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. - 2Jo 1:11 NKJV

So why should Jesus' followers listen to someone who is contradicting the doctrine of Christ?

know what I mean?

Now for the life of me I can't figure out why this is prejudice.

next:

1 Tim 2:12 - you claim this is Misogyny. The truth, it's not.

For misogyny means:

mi·sog·y·ny    [mi-soj-uh-nee, mahy-] ... hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

The scripture says:

12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. - 1Ti 2:12 KJV

or

12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence. - 1Ti 2:12 NKJV

This command deals with congregational matters in that men have been given the assignment of presiding over and teaching the congregation. While women are admonished not to dispute with the men presiding so that the unity of the congregation is preserved. In other words it has something to do with women NOT "usurping" the role of the men in the "church".

Yet men are to preside over the congregation in all mildness and humility because they have someone watching them.

Notice:

3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman [is] man, and the head of Christ [is] God. - 1Cr 11:3 NKJV

But women have an important role in the congregation also and they must not and should not remain silent when teaching others outside of the congregation.

Notice the following women in the congregation:

1 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, 2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also. ... 12 Greet Tryphena and Tryphosa, who have labored in the Lord. Greet the beloved Persis, who labored much in the Lord. - Rom 16:1-2, 12 NKJV:

2 I implore Euodia and I implore Syntyche to be of the same mind in the Lord. 3 And I urge you also, true companion, help these women who labored with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and the rest of my fellow workers, whose names [are] in the Book of Life. - Phl 4:2-3 NKJV

These women were their fellow workers.

continue the rest next time:

tc

Love how you guys simply ignore all the bas stuff in the bible

Eating pork = bad:

Isaiah 66:17 ESV “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the Lord.

So essentially, you deserve death for eating pork...makes perfect sense

Leviticus 11:7-8 ESV / 63 helpful votes And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.

God's "love":

Isaiah 66:15-17 English Standard Version (ESV) Final Judgment and Glory of the Lord 15 “For behold, the Lord will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire will the Lord enter into judgment, and by his sword, with all flesh; and those slain by the Lord shall be many. 17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the Lord.

So according to the bible, it's perfectly fine for god to kill people who eat pork

It's the same with all the other passages I posted...calling it "love" simply shows how much you ignore the "bad stuff" in the bible.

reply to post by MrXYZ


You should read my post that is a few posts up, it's a direct response to that "pork" claim.

One thing I couldn't add in my post a few posts back, was that Christians are no longer suspect to the penalty of the law; we're above the law. Because it's not about what WE do, it's about what JESUS did.

So, we can eat pork. It's unclean for us, as well as 90% of the other processed stuff that exists at the supermarket today. We can fall victim to sin, but it will not keep us out of Heaven. Because honestly? If good works got you to heaven, there would be no need for Jesus. Sadly, even one SINGLE sin will keep you out of Heaven - so if you've ever lied, you've broken the entire law.

Luckily all you gotta do is believe in Jesus. Like the Thief on the cross. See my thread in my signature below about this.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
One thing I couldn't add in my post a few posts back, was that Christians are no longer suspect to the penalty of the law; we're above the law. Because it's not about what WE do, it's about what JESUS did.

The old law still applies. No where does it say the OT law has been done away with. A new one has just been added along with it: love Jesus, and love your neighbors as yourself.

Refer to Leviticus 26:44-45.

44And yet for all that, when they be in the land of their enemies, I will not cast them away, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break my covenant with them: for I am the LORD their God.

45But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the heathen, that I might be their God: I am the LORD.

So, we can eat pork. It's unclean for us, as well as 90% of the other processed stuff that exists at the supermarket today. We can fall victim to sin, but it will not keep us out of Heaven. Because honestly? If good works got you to heaven, there would be no need for Jesus. Sadly, even one SINGLE sin will keep you out of Heaven - so if you've ever lied, you've broken the entire law.

Good works did grant you righteousness: it was called following the law. So yes, Jesus died for nothing. Sacrifices only atoned for unintentional sins. Repentance was what covered you for everything else. If you want scripture to prove this, here you go:

1 Kings 8:46-50

46If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;

47Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;

48And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:

49Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,

50And forgive thy people that have sinned against thee, and all their transgressions wherein they have transgressed against thee, and give them compassion before them who carried them captive, that they may have compassion on them

Again, Jesus died for nothing. You could repent and atone for your own sins in the OT.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
Love how you guys simply ignore all the bas stuff in the bible

Eating pork = bad:

Isaiah 66:17 ESV “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the Lord.

So essentially, you deserve death for eating pork...makes perfect sense

Leviticus 11:7-8 ESV / 63 helpful votes And the pig, because it parts the hoof and is cloven-footed but does not chew the cud, is unclean to you. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.

God's "love":

Isaiah 66:15-17 English Standard Version (ESV) Final Judgment and Glory of the Lord 15 “For behold, the Lord will come in fire, and his chariots like the whirlwind, to render his anger in fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. 16 For by fire will the Lord enter into judgment, and by his sword, with all flesh; and those slain by the Lord shall be many. 17 “Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating pig's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, declares the Lord.

So according to the bible, it's perfectly fine for god to kill people who eat pork

It's the same with all the other passages I posted...calling it "love" simply shows how much you ignore the "bad stuff" in the bible.

All of these misconception on your part will be cleared up if you can answer this simple questions.

Why did God choose - out of all the existing nations on earth (back then) - the nation of Israel as his people?

What and why the covenant?

That is, the Ten commandments along with 600 regulations?

tc

reply to post by novastrike81

 

The old law still applies. No where does it say the OT law has been done away with. A new one has just been added along with it: love Jesus, and love your neighbors as yourself.

Refer to Leviticus 26:44-45.

Incorrect. That passage in Leviticus is referring to the Jews, and still applies today - to the Jews. The Jews do not believe that Christ Jesus was their Messiah, and so because they do not believe in him, the old law still applies to them. The reason Jesus had to die to begin with was because it was extremely hard, or should I say, impossible to fulfill the law by any ordinary man. Only Jesus fulfilled the law, which is why believing in him allows us to be saved by GRACE -

See Ephesians 2:8: For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

Good works did grant you righteousness: it was called following the law. So yes, Jesus died for nothing. Sacrifices only atoned for unintentional sins. Repentance was what covered you for everything else. If you want scripture to prove this, here you go:

1 Kings 8:46-50 *snip*

Again, Jesus died for nothing. You could repent and atone for your own sins in the OT.

I don't disagree with that first statement - following the law does grant you righteousness, but let me put it to you this way: In the very opening verses of the book of John, it states thusly;

John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Skip to: John 1:14 - The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.

Finally, read John 6:38-40 - (Jesus speaking)
"For I have come down from Heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."

So there you go. Jesus is the Word, is the Law; and to follow the law, as you've stated, is to follow Jesus. If you believe in Jesus, you will have eternal life. No ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Need further proof? Thief on the Cross.

God's way is only love if you can find it. Otherwise only pain will behold.

reply to post by Lionhearte

So, we can eat pork. It's unclean for us, as well as 90% of the other processed stuff that exists at the supermarket today

Its not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out...

Nothing is "unclean"... only to specific sects of religions unclean meat exists.

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

So, we can eat pork. It's unclean for us, as well as 90% of the other processed stuff that exists at the supermarket today

Its not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out...

Nothing is "unclean"... only to specific sects of religions unclean meat exists.

Uh-huh, sure. Never heard of Salmonella?

Try eating raw meat

reply to post by edmc^2


God didn't "chose" people from Israel...the myths simply originated from there. Just like the Mayans believed in different gods, as did the Egyptians, and Africans, and Asians. All of them weren't "chosen" (as much as they'd like to believe to be "special"), they simply have different myths to explain stuff they didn't have the answers for.

YOU might believe the bible to be correct, but billions of Hindus disagree...and billions of Muslims disagree too. None of you guys have any objective evidence to back up your claims, you simply blindly believe scripture...scripture that is based on a limited understanding of how the world works. The bible is the greatest example ever (along with the Koran, etc.) of "god of the gaps".

And it doesn't matter if those rules weren't mean for Christians. Fact is, according to the bible, eating pork is a sin and it clearly states it's ok for god to kill whoever eats pork.

Let me guess, when you read the Koran you are perfectly ok with taking the "bad stuff" literally...but somehow when it comes to the bible you turn a blind eye and simply pretend it isn't bad, or "it wasn't meant that way"

Originally posted by Lionhearte

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

So, we can eat pork. It's unclean for us, as well as 90% of the other processed stuff that exists at the supermarket today

Its not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out...

Nothing is "unclean"... only to specific sects of religions unclean meat exists.

Uh-huh, sure. Never heard of Salmonella?

Try eating raw meat

You know what i mean...

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

God didn't "chose" people from Israel...the myths simply originated from there. Just like the Mayans believed in different gods, as did the Egyptians, and Africans, and Asians. All of them weren't "chosen" (as much as they'd like to believe to be "special"), they simply have different myths to explain stuff they didn't have the answers for.

YOU might believe the bible to be correct, but billions of Hindus disagree...and billions of Muslims disagree too. None of you guys have any objective evidence to back up your claims, you simply blindly believe scripture...scripture that is based on a limited understanding of how the world works. The bible is the greatest example ever (along with the Koran, etc.) of "god of the gaps".

And it doesn't matter if those rules weren't mean for Christians. Fact is, according to the bible, eating pork is a sin and it clearly states it's ok for god to kill whoever eats pork.

Let me guess, when you read the Koran you are perfectly ok with taking the "bad stuff" literally...but somehow when it comes to the bible you turn a blind eye and simply pretend it isn't bad, or "it wasn't meant that way"

I still don't understand why you're ignoring my responses, but I'll bite.

Technically speaking, it isn't close-minded to assume that there is one universal truth. One "Religion" if you will. Simply put, does 2+2 = 4? Of course it does, to assume it equals 6 or 8 or 125 is idiocy.

Just the same, everyone assumes they all have the correct belief, but because there are so many beliefs, does not automatically make them all wrong. One of them is right. That begs another question, how do you determine who is correct?

All of the "Religions" in the world are the same, except for one - Christianity. Hell, for one thing, it's the only "religion" (it's a relationship, not a religion) that has an explanation for the Creation of the Universe. No other religions have an explanation, unless they are referring to the Christian God.

But that's not the key thing here - the key is this; the Bible has proven itself to be authentic with the use of prophecy. There's hundreds of prophecies, which have all come true when they said it would. There are still yet to be fulfilled, but very few. This is why there are so many Christians today that believe we live in the end of days.

Aside from that, let's assume what you say is true - then what is the whole point of Christianity? There is nothing to gain here on Earth for a Christian. It's so simple, too. All the Christian has to do is believe in Christ, and they are saved. They don't have to do anything else.

Find me another "religion" that makes it that easy. No, everyone else in the world says "DO", but Jesus says "DONE".

reply to post by Lionhearte


So much wrong with your post I don't know where to start.

All of the "Religions" in the world are the same, except for one - Christianity. Hell, for one thing, it's the only "religion" (it's a relationship, not a religion) that has an explanation for the Creation of the Universe. No other religions have an explanation, unless they are referring to the Christian God.

You mean...apart from:

The Mayans

Muslims

Buddhists

Scientology (lol)

Aborigines

Egyptians

Do you want me to go on?

All you're showing is an incredible amount of ignorance and lack of knowledge if you pretend your belief (Christianity) is the "right one". And know, the mere fact that there's hundreds of different religions doesn't mean one is correct...especially in the absence of objective evidence, and even worse, the FACT that many things are demonstrably wrong.

Oh, and regarding your last argument: Are you seriously saying because Christianity is "simple" it's the correct belief?

But that's not the key thing here - the key is this; the Bible has proven itself to be authentic with the use of prophecy. There's hundreds of prophecies, which have all come true when they said it would. There are still yet to be fulfilled, but very few. This is why there are so many Christians today that believe we live in the end of days.

Sorry to burst your bubble...but the above is simply WRONG.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Mayans - Does not have an explanation of a "how" or a "why", essentially it doesn't explain the Cause. If I asked a Mayan what created the Wind, they wouldn't have an answer.

Muslims - Believe in the same creation story as Christians. I already ruled them, as well as others such as Catholics and Jews out, as they're still basing it off of the Bible.

Buddhism - Based off evolution. That's almost laughable, as Evolution cannot even support it's own theory.

Scientology - Excuse me if I'm wrong, but I don't see any claims to creation? It might just not be obvious, if you could point it out, please do.

Aborigines - This doesn't really explain where the Spirits even came from, it suggests that they always were, but if the Spirit became the Sun, and the Sun (our Sun) has an expiration date.. it doesn't really hold merit.

Egyptians - had probably one of the most contradictory, or rather, non-complimentary beliefs in history. To keep on point though, none of these talk about a Creator, but only the creation created itself. Contradictory.

All you're showing is an incredible amount of ignorance and lack of knowledge if you pretend your belief (Christianity) is the "right one". And know, the mere fact that there's hundreds of different religions doesn't mean one is correct...especially in the absence of objective evidence, and even worse, the FACT that many things are demonstrably wrong.

Yet I can say that you are showing an incredible amount of ignorance and lack of knowledge by pretending you know for a fact that Christianity is NOT the "right one". If a man who knows nothing about economics told an economist that he has no idea what he's talking about, logic tends to be in favor of the one who actually does the research on his belief.

Oh, and regarding your last argument: Are you seriously saying because Christianity is "simple" it's the correct belief?

No. I'm saying there isn't a "catch" to Christianity. Prove me wrong, I dare you.

Sorry to burst your bubble...but the above is simply WRONG.

Actually, it's not. I'll address the website you've linked, but only a few parts, as it's quite long.

Followers of Nostradamus also claim that the 16th century author and purported seer predicted hundreds of real world events, and yet many Christians seem a bit reluctant to accept Nostradamus as any sort of divine prophet.

Ignoring the claim made by Mark Hitchcock right after, I have to add my own input on this - if a Prophet is wrong on a SINGLE prediction, they are a false prophet. Nostradamus has been proven wrong more than once, therefore he is a false prophet. The same rule applies to the Bible, if it is proven wrong ONCE, the entire Book is proven wrong.

I. Claims on the Birth of Christ

The claim this website makes is that, like Nostradamus, the scripture is too vague, and can apply to many situations. Specifically, the last line of the first claim says this, "This prophecy is unimpressive because even if it were legitimate, how miraculous is a prediction that someone would be born of a woman?"

The problem here is that the serpent in the garden is never actually associated with the devil, despite Christian theology that states otherwise.

Two ways we know it is the Devil..
1) Revelation calls the Devil "that old serpent" twice, Revelation 12:9 and 20:2.
2) Simple logic. If all that existed at this time was God (and Jesus and the Holy Spirit), the Angels (and the fallen), and Adam and Eve, then who is the only one who would tempt Eve?

Jesus tells us plainly.. John 8:44 - You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.

Note the ambiguity of 'her offspring' representing Jesus too. No mention of a cross or a carpenter from Nazareth, instead what we get is the offspring of woman.

No, this is very clear in Galatians 3:16 - The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say "and to seeds," meaning many people, but "and to your seed," meaning one person, who is Christ.

I'm running out of room, so I cannot do the others, but we've already went over the first one and have already proven it wrong. Great start, if I do say so myself.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by edmc^2

 

God didn't "chose" people from Israel...the myths simply originated from there. Just like the Mayans believed in different gods, as did the Egyptians, and Africans, and Asians. All of them weren't "chosen" (as much as they'd like to believe to be "special"), they simply have different myths to explain stuff they didn't have the answers for.

YOU might believe the bible to be correct, but billions of Hindus disagree...and billions of Muslims disagree too. None of you guys have any objective evidence to back up your claims, you simply blindly believe scripture...scripture that is based on a limited understanding of how the world works. The bible is the greatest example ever (along with the Koran, etc.) of "god of the gaps".

And it doesn't matter if those rules weren't mean for Christians. Fact is, according to the bible, eating pork is a sin and it clearly states it's ok for god to kill whoever eats pork.

Let me guess, when you read the Koran you are perfectly ok with taking the "bad stuff" literally...but somehow when it comes to the bible you turn a blind eye and simply pretend it isn't bad, or "it wasn't meant that way"

It's all in the context my friend. That's why I asked you in the outset if you know the history of the nation of Israel. This is very important.

It's like this - a judge sentenced and put someone to death. Then years passed, not knowing the circumstances of the case, someone came and accused the judge of murder. The person keeps on insisting that the judge was a murderer inspite of all the records available for him to see. What the case was all about, why the death penalty, who were the witnesses and the jury who deliberated.

Not wanting to understand the circumstances and not wanting to see the evidence will led someone to the wrong conclusion, and that's what usually happens to people who doesn't know the Bible. They start accusing God of murder inspite of the written evidence that shows otherwise.

So my question to you again is why did God choose the nation of Israel to be his chosen people?

Notice:

“For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah has chosen you to become his people, a special property, out of all the peoples who are on the surface of the ground.” (Deuteronomy 14:2)

tc

reply to post by BulletShogun

if every muslim was like the extremists in the middle east. the united states and most of europe would have been on its knees long ago.

Really? It takes money to win wars and to hold territory. Islam is broke, and has been for a long time. Thats why you see muslim families with 10-12 kids when they can't even afford to feed 2. The only reason Islam is still even around is because of that breeding factor.

reply to post by novastrike81

The old law still applies. No where does it say the OT law has been done away with. A new one has just been added along with it: love Jesus, and love your neighbors as yourself.

Incorrect. The only laws that still apply are what Jesus taught, which was mainly the 10 commandments, and to not be sexually immoral, and to love your enemies as you love your friends or family. In fact Jesus criticized the pharisees for their religion because they were nothing but the law, they had no mercy and no forgiveness in them. They just gave an outward appearance but it did not touch their spirits.

The Apostles added not consuming blood, sexual immorality, not eating strangled animals because they retained blood and not consuming food or drink offered to idols. See the Council of Jerusalem in the book of Acts. Those who advocated keeping the old law are called "Judaisers" and the Apostles had to correct them. Homosexuality is not permitted because it is classifed as sexual immorality within the constraints of the new covenant.

Acts 15: 1-29

And certain men came down from Judea and taught the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 Therefore, when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and dispute with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem, to the apostles and elders, about this question.

3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through Phoenicia and Samaria, describing the conversion of the Gentiles; and they caused great joy to all the brethren. 4 And when they had come to Jerusalem, they were received by the church and the apostles and the elders; and they reported all things that God had done with them. 5 But some of the sect of the Pharisees who believed rose up, saying, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.”

The Jerusalem Council
6 Now the apostles and elders came together to consider this matter. 7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ[a] we shall be saved in the same manner as they.”

12 Then all the multitude kept silent and listened to Barnabas and Paul declaring how many miracles and wonders God had worked through them among the Gentiles. 13 And after they had become silent, James answered, saying, “Men and brethren, listen to me: 14 Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name. 15 And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:

16 ‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’

18 “Known to God from eternity are all His works.[c] 19 Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 but that we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality,[d] from things strangled, and from blood. 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

The Jerusalem Decree
22 Then it pleased the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas,[e] and Silas, leading men among the brethren.

23 They wrote this letter by them:

The apostles, the elders, and the brethren,

To the brethren who are of the Gentiles in Antioch, Syria, and Cilicia:

Greetings.

24 Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, “You must be circumcised and keep the law”[f] —to whom we gave no such commandment— 25 it seemed good to us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men to you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We have therefore sent Judas and Silas, who will also report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things: 29 that you abstain from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.[g] If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well.