Senior citizen torture to near death in the LA County jail for selling raw milk

reply to post by Chadwickus

I am not a lier

you say

now don't take this personal (not withstanding that just calling him a lier is)
but
I don't see proof he is a lier
and that you are not


edit to add
like the way MSN like cnn and faux the NY times and Bush and Obama and Hillary&bill and Blair and netanyahu have all been proven liers

reply to post by Danbones


By all means, if you think I'm lying, prove it.

I've proven Mike Adams is a liar and get slammed for it.

Even if the truth goes against your beliefs, it's still the truth..harden up and face the truth instead of going after me for actually finding it.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Danbones

 

By all means, if you think I'm lying, prove it.

I've proven Mike Adams is a liar and get slammed for it.

Even if the truth goes against your beliefs, it's still the truth..harden up and face the truth instead of going after me for actually finding it.

I don't see you have proven it

and I don't see you have been slammed
only rebutted, wining about rebutals ?
taking them personal?
after the style with which you debate...

Its a highly contentious issue
and I guess one has to make up there own minds
A persons health is ultimately their own resposibility and the consequences for those kinds of descisions are owned by the person that makes them

side tracking doesn't change that

reply to post by Danbones


You don't see it because you don't want to.

It's HERE and HERE

Insinuating that I'm a liar isn't a rebuttal mate, and you know it.

those are REPORTS of ALLEGATIONS
allegations are NOT PROOF
and you know it

reply to post by Danbones


What? The Closure notice given to Stewart on June 30 is an allegation is it?

It actually happened and Mike Adams never mentioned that did he?

Ask yourself WHY.

Im also calling BS on this article.

Vague doesnt begin to describe it. Has the OP provided any pictures detailing his injuries, or in the very least detailed descriptions of what he suffered? How was he forced to wallow in feces? Most likely crapped himself when he was detained. Im fairly sure Defcon nailed it on the head. He was most likely beligerant and/or drunk when arrested and paid the price. Why did this man not take care of his animals as the law requires?

Until i see a doctors report listing detailing the injuries from the so-called atrocities he suffered, ill remain quite skeptical.

Thought people might be interested in these facts from the Farm to Consumer Legal Defence fund :

Conventional Small Dairy Economics Costs are high:

•Feed (grain, supplements, etc.)
•Vet bills (cows are always sick)
•Replacement cows (cows live only 42 months)
•Artificial breeding (hard to get cows pregnant)
•Interest on debt (capital to purchase expensive equipment).
Small dairy farmers cannot make a living on this model, which is why in 2002, dairy farms in the US went out of business at the rate of 16 per day.

Cow-Share Economics (Raw Milk Micro-Dairy) Costs are low:

•Feed cost minimal (sunlight is free!)
•Vet bills are low (cows are healthy)
•No replacement-cow costs (Cows breed easily, replace themselves, live 12-15 years)
•Interest on debt much lower (not as many capital costs)

Checklist for Cow-Shareholders

Before you purchase a cow-share, be sure that:

•Cows graze on unsprayed pasture except during the coldest time of the year and are fed hay and silage when in barns.
•The herd is tested free of TB and brucellosis.
•Teats of cows are cleaned with approved solution before milking.
•Cows are milked in a clean barn or milking parlor.
•Milk is kept chilled.
•Milk is tested regularly to ensure absence of pathogens.
Since most cow-shareholders are not farmers, you might benefit from buying the "Raw Milk Production Handbook" by Tim Wightman. It’s an easy and interesting handbook, and can provide you a basis of understanding so the you can have informed discussions with your cow-share operator. We also highly recommend "Safe Handling - Consumers' Guide" by Peggy Beals, RN.

in states where sales of raw milk are legal, the permits (or inspection fees) are often very expensive. Cow or goat-share programs allow farmers to provide raw milk to consumers without cumbersome and expensive paperwork mandated by the state.

How Cow or Goat-Share Programs Work
The consumer purchases a share in a milk cow, goat or dairy herd. The farmer and the consumer enter into a contract whereby the farmer feeds and boards the animal and provides the labor to milk the animal and store the consumer’s milk. Such contracts are legal and valid, as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States of America. The consumer does not buy milk from the farmer. Rather, they pay the farmer for the service of keeping the cow or goat and his labor for milking and processing the milk into value added products such as butter, cream, cheese, etc. Cow and goat-share programs protect the farmer from liability since the animal belongs to the consumer and the consumer is drinking the milk from their own animal.

www.farmtoconsumer.org...

reply to post by AliceBlackman


Thanks for that break down, very interesting, I happen to have conversations with local farmers specially dairy farms it is incredible that while they have to spend so much money on keeping cows healthy with vaccinations, hormones and diet that is not what nature intended animals to eat, when it comes to licenses, oversight and corruption if you are on contract with big processors of food, you are fine, but if you are an organic farmer that is when things gets tricky and very expensive.

Still with so many dairy farms in my neck of the woods I can not find any in the south to sell raw milk unless I go in northern GA, Atlanta or travel to Tallahassee.

It is very difficult to be organic this days.

But then again it is an agenda behind the manufacture and processed foods along with the GMO pushing, it's spells money, nature can not be patented but chemical crap can.

Sell it as wholesome with multimillion campaign of advertisement and people fall for it like flies and like flies they fall for the big pharma when their health starts to go down the crapper.

Is NOTHING wholesome of processed food.

A Brief History Of Raw Milk's Long Journey...

www.raw-milk-facts.com...

Louis Pasteur
And the Myth of Pasteurization

How, one of the greatest man to accomplish so much to science and health was turned into nothing but a way for profiteers to push over vaccinations and kill the benefits of natural foods in the name of safety.

What he meant and what is been accomplished is two big different things, all for profits.

"Pasteur developed ‘pasteurization’, a process by which harmful microbes in perishable food products are destroyed using heat, without destroying the food."

This is not entirely true. Pasteurization does NOT kill ALL harmful microbes in milk and it DOES harm the milk.

In her book, The Medical Mafia, Dr Lanctôt debunks pasteurization with a one-two punch:

The temperature is not high enough.
The temperature is too high.
First off, Dr Lanctôt points out that germs that bring us typhoid, coli bacillus, and tuberculosis are not killed by the temperatures used, and there have been a good number of salmonella epidemics traced to pasteurized milk.

Secondly, the heating process injures the milk. She points out that pasteurization destroys milk’s intrinsic germicidal properties, not to mention healthy enzymes. She goes on to state that 50% of milks calcium is unusable (the body cannot assimilate it) after pasteurization. So much for all those milk commercials

www.mnwelldir.org...

Originally posted by defcon5

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

Originally posted by jude11
I did hear in the video that he was questioned as to whether or not he is a "Sovereign" and this could lend more credibility to his story.

Which is exactly why he made that up and added it to the story. He knows his target audience well, doesn't he? Believe me, I know a lot of LEO's and prison guards, they have no idea was a “sovereign” even is, because that term only exists in internet conspiracy theory law.


reply to post by TWILITE22

 

The problem is that you're placing trust in these guys word as to what they are providing you with. Obviously this guy has something he is hiding or he would be complying with the rules for legally selling raw milk. Do you honestly think that all these guys are honest? I mean just look at how dishonest he is being about what happened to him in jail. Now is that someone you really want to trust your health too? You ever heard of “snake oil salesmen”?

These guys invest a lot of money in cows, if those cows for some reason aren't fit to be marketed to consumer buyer, then they can be out a fortune. Believe me, if a farmer who is looking at losing his shirt over his bad herd has the opportunity to get away with still making money off it, you bet your butt he's going to try it. If that means that you end up getting sick, then its buyer beware in their opinion.

That is why the government places these rules. Not because they are trying to harm you, but rather because they are keeping others from taking advantage of their potential customers.

...And again I ask...
If this guy has nothing to hide, then why is he not complying with the rules?

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

You must not know any LEO's who actually deal with people.
Of the three LEO's I know all three have dealt with the Soverign Citizen movement. All three state that there is an increase in the number of "incidents" they have had with this movement. They were asking him that because they are accusing him of being within that movement. It had nothing to do with the validity of the term. You are not understanding the implications in the story.
I can see however from this post that you fully support the involvment of the government in all levels of your life and have no concept of personal responsibilty. Your ability to comment on this story is colored by your statist disregard for personal freedom. I encourage everyone to just skip your future posts on this matter. There are however a number of other posters who see fit to eat statist pie and drop the old "He should just follow the rules and nothing would happen" line which is almost as sick as "if you have nothing to hide why are you not complying" tripe. I would ask all of you rule followers to answer how is it that you can even get up out of bed every morning without accidently killing yourself? You are so in need of government supervision why is it that you do not live in a clear plexiglass box so that agents can check up on you on an hourly basis. This man has not harmed anyone through force or fraud.
He did not sell tainted products.
He did not force anyone to pay for his services
He did not detain anyone unwillingly
He did not subject anyone to harsh treatment
He did not kill anyone
Your government however has done all of those things, whos protecting you again?

reply to post by marg6043


The history of raw milk was a great read, thanks for the insight, who would have thought they'd try to feed the slops from whiskey to cows !

I'm always amazed by commercials that go on about "corn" fed beef /diary... like it's some marvelous thing.... hello ruminents eat grass, their stomaches are designed for grass..not corn or barley....it's the best way to grow bacteria that are resistant to human stomach acid .... yipppeeee.
and for the poor cows it can cause serious intestinal disorders, such as “feedlot bloat” (a condition that causes trapped gas to accumulate in the rumen, causing the rumen to press against the lungs (if left untreated, the animal can actually suffocate); and “subacute acidosis” (a condition similar to heartburn, which causes animals to pant and salivate, kick at their bellies and eat dirt). If left untreated it can lead to diarrhea, ulcers, liver abscesses and even death. I'm sure the GMO isn't helping either.

I think in GA it's only legal for farmers to sell raw milk for pet use ....I've only ever managed to get my hands on organic raw cheese, love the stuff, but sadly my local store has stopped stocking it, guess I was the only one buying it !
Our guts need all the good bacteria they can get, it's the only way to keep the bad ones at bay ... and given the rise in anti-biotic resistant bacteria and that new really nasty e-coli that killed folks in Germany, it really is wise to keep topping up with some kind of pro-biotic.

I am very fortunate to have 10 acres of land in "rural" (rural meaning UPS and FedEx can't find my house) Oklahoma. Until recently (due to predators) I had a small flock of chickens and some muscovy ducks. At one time I had about two dozen laying hens which produced more eggs than my husband and I could eat, so I sold (or gave away) surplus eggs for a dollar or two a dozen. My chickens were absolutely free range. We did feed them a little, but mostly they foraged. Their egg yolks were so yellow they were almost orange and tasted nothing like the "sweat shop" eggs (so named by the son of one of my regular "customers") you get at the grocery store.

We also grew tomatoes, cucumbers, blackberries, melons, and a few other things in our large garden, and sometimes gave away produce if we got too much.

Last year while signing up for a homestead exemption at the local county seat, the lovely metropolis of Pawnee, OK, I asked the clerk about getting a farm tax exemption. For those of you who don't know, farm tax allows you to not pay sales tax on items you buy for the consumption of animals that are or produce consumables. People abuse it - they get their dog food and horse feed tax-free and seldom is it questioned, but we intended to just use it on the chicken feed. So, back to the clerk - a government employee - who looked me right in the eye and told me that I really didn't want the farm tax exemption because it's "not worth it."

"What do you mean?" I asked, puzzled.

She went on to explain that getting the farm tax would open me up to surprise inspection visits of my "farm" to ensure that I'm complying with all sorts of regulations and requirements, including how I feed my chickens, how they're housed, how often eggs are collected and whether they are properly stored, if I use adequate pest control on my vegetables, and so on and so forth...

Say WHAT?

I decided not to get the farm tax.

So anyway, let's look at the bigger picture. James Stewart's story about abuse and torture may or may not be as full of manure as your average cow pasture but ... worst case scenario .. what did he do? He tried to avoid licensing, fees, regulations, and inspections of his dairy. Now, it might be that his cows weren't healthy or there was something wrong with the milk, but no one has come forward to complain or say they're sick, so I kind of doubt that. Probably he was trying to avoid the costs and invasions of privacy that come with all that crap.

Did he rape or murder anyone? Sell drugs to children? Sell drugs to anyone? Steal from anyone? Engage in robbery or burglary? Beat people up and break their legs for owing him money? I'm sure y'all are creative and know more about crime than I do, add to the list in your own mind.

We have rapists, murderers, repeat drug offenders, people making a living from selling meth and crack to children, burglars, thieves, carjackers, and etc. roaming the streets, occasionally getting arrested, and usually getting out of jail (who keeps giving them those dammed get out of jail free cards, anyway?) within hours on bail.

Even if his story of torture and abuse is a bigger pile of crap than the one you'd find behind an Angus bull on a diet of cheap Mexican food, what the HELL people? He's an old man who sells milk.

To my way of thinking, the law enforcement system has their priorities totally screwed up if even part of his story is true. Fine him, give him a slap on the wrist, scold him .. hell, take away his cows and send them to the auction barn .. that'd teach him to be trying to avoid those pesky inspectors, wouldn't it? But really.. how is anyone even trying to make the scenario of throwing a guy who has some cows and sells milk to people who want it (and aren't complaining) in jail acceptable?

People die from the effects of prescribed, "safe", pharmaceutical drugs every day.
People periodically die from eating food bought at their local grocery store or Walmart.
People die from food poisoning they got at a restaurant, probably at least every month or so.
People including you are slowly dying, every single day, from the effects of chemical poisons, food additives, preservatives, pesticides, hormones, animal by-products (which can transmit CJD), trace pathogens, rat droppings, hair and feathers, etc. in your food.

Have you ever heard of any of those people going to jail? Nah. They mess up, but hey, they pay all their fees and stuff and have their proper licenses. Let's go after the old milkman instead, he doesn't have any lawyers on his payroll.

reply to post by AliceBlackman


I remember the good old days when it was not home without a backyard full of chickens, a pig or two and one cow, I was very fortunate that my grand dad had a dairy farm we had our fair share of meat poultry and even game.

I remember when I had my first glass of milk from pasteurized milk, I spit the darn thing because it was watery no creamy and didn't tasted like the raw fresh milk I was so use to.

It actually gave me diarrhea every time I drank the stuff.

I don't remember any family member dying from eating fresh meat or poultry neither from drinking raw milk or eating homemade butter or cheese, (my grand dads farm made one of the best white cheese, soft and moist wrapped in banana leaves, they also mad Serrano hams a Spanish tradition as our last name comes from the same area and background Serrano.

I tell you when my grand dad saw for the first time the introduction of pellets for animal feeding he told the seller that his cows where no chickens and that only chicken will eat corn.

Now that crap is been feed to dogs no wonder they are now experiencing the same illnesses as human, like diabetes and thyroid diseases.

I am lucky to get my raw milk and fresh eggs every week and stick to it, nothing better than having a nice cup of my Puertorrican grown coffee made at home the old fashion way (without a coffee maker) with creamy raw milk and brown sugar.

reply to post by hhott


You are so lucky to have the land to have whatever you want in it, produce your own and live healthy. I miss the good old days, marriage has brought me to the US from PR and life has never been the same when it comes to the way I grew up eating.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Danbones

 

What? The Closure notice given to Stewart on June 30 is an allegation is it?

It actually happened and Mike Adams never mentioned that did he?

Ask yourself WHY.

edit on 12/3/12 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)

your legal document is a charge sheet
pre hearing
HE HASN"T HAD A HEARING YET
and you present as though he is CONVICTED
what is that about Chad?
IT AINT PROOF!!!

do I see any cases he made any one sick?
no
do I see where they determined his products bad TESTED bad??
no
do I see a more thorough investigation then the one the guv did for 911
YES
do I see thew MSN presenting both sides of the story
NO
the guy is out on bail
NO TRIAL YET
A conviction would be proof Chad
and you know it

Originally posted by nightbringr
Im also calling BS on this article.

Vague doesnt begin to describe it. Has the OP provided any pictures detailing his injuries, or in the very least detailed descriptions of what he suffered? How was he forced to wallow in feces? Most likely crapped himself when he was detained. Im fairly sure Defcon nailed it on the head. He was most likely beligerant and/or drunk when arrested and paid the price. Why did this man not take care of his animals as the law requires?

Until i see a doctors report listing detailing the injuries from the so-called atrocities he suffered, ill remain quite skeptical.

edit on 12-3-2012 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

I hope you are also waiting for a report on that actual harm he has done as well

reply to post by Danbones


All I can ask myself and what eats me about the story is since when you are tagged a criminal hold without due process because of selling organic products in this nation.

Regardless of what laws he broke that has only to do with selling what nature has given freely to humanity for consumption.

What is next been held and torture from claiming fresh air is beneficial for your health?

Darn sellers of seeds and nuts like walnuts can not longer claim that walnuts are full of Omegas (that is been prove that they do) and that they are beneficial for your cardiovascular health.

What in the heck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But is ok for big pharma to make synthetic fish oil and used in drugs That actually are not working as the natural real thing.

You don't have to be a genius to see the propaganda and the real criminals behind this all, it does hurt when we got corrupted law enforcers following the big money trail and decriminalized anything that pose a danger to the status quo when it comes to all for profits.

reply to post by defcon5


You know, the article link to the issue of raw milk is legit, but I had my doubts about the issue with the organic farmer, it could be just a propaganda game.

Now ,I noticed that you are no happy with raw milk, I can only talk about good things when it comes to raw milk as a lifetime consumer of it, I also avoid GMOs and anything that is mass produced and manufactured, that includes any kind of products from meats, fish (I only eat wild catch and not from the gulf) and poultry, it is any reason why you may have such negative results with raw milk?

I know you are trying to bring insight and the truth about the article, so far is not much information about it as the media seems to not have any interest in covering the allegations.

But because is an issue with raw milk that affect me personally as a raw milk consumer, that is the reason I am so interested.