The great misunderstanding, page 1

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Topic started on 10-3-2012 @ 03:39 PM by Minori

We are all human by design, and along with the many similarities within us the biggest is that we are all born with free will. By definition free will is having the ability to make an independent choice and a voluntary decision. There are many factors that play into how a person comes about the decisions they have made, the most prominent, but not the only, being culture and their religious beliefs. Many of us have been born into a certain belief system. Typically we tend to adopt the ideas and beliefs of our family because that was what we were taught at a young age. As we get older and are able to comprehend how the world works often times we start to see things differently. It is clear to us that the “old” way of thinking can no longer apply to what our current society has deemed as acceptable. The result being the current state of our world, disorder and chaos. Things that we have acknowledged as truths are now being questioned across the board. Collectively it is easy to say that trust has disappeared and humanity and what is stands for has almost become extinct. So where did we go wrong, who is to blame and how do we fix it??

I am a very spiritual person, and in the disorder of what this existence has become I turn away from all the outside noise, and I look inside. Some 2000 years ago a baby was born that was said to have been sent by our creator to wash away all of our sins and show us the right way. He was sent to ALL of humanity not just one particular faction…ALL. There were some who accepted what he spoke, some who opposed and still others who did not listen. He was mistreated, misunderstood and misinterpreted by those who could not see what he came to do, and that has carried over all the way to our current time. The creator knowing that we were all born with free will also knew that we were being led astray not by our own choosing per say but by the governments and religious sanctions of that time as well as the constant instigating of the devil and all that he stands for. Having unconditional love for ALL of us he sent his only son to educate us and teach us so that we may know the truth about our father and all he encompasses. In one sentence he has given us the answer, the true path that leads to him:

Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

He knew it was in our human nature to question things, and that is what he intended us to do. We are all individuals, and those who believe in something, regardless of what title it carries, what name they have or what they look like at least still believe there is a higher power. Within all the laws and rules that follow in any religion each individual still has their own perception of who God is and what he stands for. All religions and faith based beliefs are a spiritual journey, and no two people will travel the same path, nor will they perceive the same view of the creator. He does not want us to believe in him because we are forced to, nor does he want us just to conform to a belief because we were born into it. He wants us to seek him out, to come to him on our own, to question what we believe, to learn other beliefs so that when he does open that door to let us in we will know that we have found the truth.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

That being said we should not point fingers at what others preceive as God. There is no right or wrong religion, God unveils himself to the person individually, in a way that the person who is seeking him can realte to. Those who seek him out, regardless of what faith, or what name they refer to him as will truly find him. Our connection to the creator is personal, and each one of us will have a different experience, and a different relationship with him. Anyone who walks a spiritual path will know when they have found him, for there are no words to describe the love he truly has for each and every one of us.

PLPL

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 04:28 PM by lonewolf19792000

reply to post by Minori

There is no right or wrong religion

That right there is where you are wrong. You do not need religion, but you do need Jesus the Christ. You do not have to step one foot in a church ever in your life, but you do need him or you are a walking dead man. Jesus railed at the Sanhedrin and criticized pharisees because they obeyed a tradition of men, followed God as according to their ways and not his. There is a right way and a wrong way and any other way than through Christ is the wrong way.

edit on 10-3-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 04:34 PM by michael1983l

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Minori

There is no right or wrong religion

That right there is where you are wrong. You do not need religion, but you do need Jesus the Christ. You do not have to step one foot in a church ever in your life, but you do need him or you are a walking dead man. Jesus railed at the Sanhedrin and criticized pharisees because they obeyed a tradition of men, followed God as according to their ways and not his. There is a right way and a wrong way and any other way than through Christ is the wrong way.
edit on 10-3-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

But you rely on the word of Jesus Christ being real and not a creation of man. Humans are corruptable and we all know this, why would god force us to have faith in something that has been controlled by man. I am not saying there is no god or jesus christ but I am saying we should questions mans interperation of him.

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 06:15 PM by Minori

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I was not saying that Jesus is not the way. I was saying that all true spiritual paths lead to him. If an individual is truly seeking their creator, not just conforming to what they were born into, they will find him. That seems to be the problem lately, God has put faith in us , and yet we seem to have lost faith in him. How many of us can actually say that they made the choice to follow Christ?? How many of us can say that they have challenged their current beliefs. How many of us can actually say that we sought him out and found him?? Something needs to change, the old ways of thinking do not work anymore. What matters more, the fact that a person communicates with God, or what name their God has?? That is why many turn away from Christianity they have made God out to be a mean monster, and not the loving father that he truly is.

PLPL

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 07:02 PM by Wonders

reply to post by Minori

It seems that those who consider the idea of God and Jesus and love are not sure what love is: Say for instance you have a whole lot of Christians who turn sour at the mention of their sins and claims that anyone who dares disrespect them aren't following God and Jesus according to the love they percieve God and Jesus to have. Anyone who reads the bible knows that God and Jesus care more about what is right regardless of who is in the wrong. Everyone who believes in God only does so believing that God loves them and wants them to have eternal life. But when sin is exposed, they care more about saving their own skin and flee or fight, though what they don't expect is a continuous battle. Just know that no one can make you feel inferior without your consent, in other words, you would already have to agree with a statement in order to submit to it when it is spoken aloud. Jesus had some scathing words for those who had no interest in the truth, no interest in God's will, and no interest in anything other than saving face and acting as if everything is going well when it clearly is not. I think that a big problem with today's Christians is that they are trying hard to get the validation they need through the approval of man as if God has no say in the matter. Love has a different meaning for God than it does for society, friendship to the world is enmity with God. We are to love God with ALL of our heart, ALL of our mind, ALL of our strength, with everything we have to work for God. Anyone who loves others more than they love God is not worthy of Jesus. I don't care who disagrees with me, I may be a sinner now, but I know that God seeks to make me a part of him, and His way is not sinful.

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 07:42 PM by Minori

reply to post by Wonders

I would rather be in a room with people who have faith in something, then in a room with those with none.
Thanks for posting!!

PLPL

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 07:52 PM by Wonders

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Wonders

I would rather be in a room with people who have faith in something, then in a room with those with none.
Thanks for posting!!

PLPL

What does that mean these days, "Thanks for posting!!" ? You don't seem thankful and yet you say thanks. Most folks look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. I would rather be around athiests who seek the truth than "spiritual" people babbling on with their lies.

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 09:13 PM by Minori

reply to post by Wonders

You can call it lies, I call it my opinion. I was actually sincere in my thanks. Maybe I misunderstood the point you were trying to make??

To better explain what I am saying, regardless of what faith a person follows we all share the same creator. He knows what is in our hearts, our true intentions. So the only prayers and devotion God is aware of are the ones that come from the people who got his name right or picked the right religion?? That contradicts all that he stands for, unconditional love. He did not send his only son done here to die for just a select few, he died for ALL of us, even the atheist. We are each unique creations, why would it be a suprise that we each connected with God in a different way??

PLPL

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 10:20 PM by Wonders

reply to post by Minori

I don't believe in unconditional love, nor do I ever see ANYONE displaying unconditional love. Love has standards or it's not love. You can do good to your enemies, but they are still your enemies until things are mutual.

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 10:30 PM by Minori

reply to post by Wonders

I guess it depends on your definition of unconditional love. I was not aware that there were standards placed on emotions. What a person feels is something only they can express. What you consider to be love may be completely different then the next persons. Unconditional love looks past all faults, no matter what.

PLPL

reply posted on 10-3-2012 @ 11:44 PM by Wonders

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Wonders

I guess it depends on your definition of unconditional love. I was not aware that there were standards placed on emotions. What a person feels is something only they can express. What you consider to be love may be completely different then the next persons. Unconditional love looks past all faults, no matter what.

PLPL

Let me remind you that God hated Esau. There are sheep and there are goats, there is wheat and there are tares, we may all share the world right now, but one day we will be separated. When people go to hell, it's because God (God is love) has standards. I could go further but I hope you get the idea.

reply posted on 11-3-2012 @ 09:05 AM by autowrench

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Minori

There is no right or wrong religion

That right there is where you are wrong. You do not need religion, but you do need Jesus the Christ. You do not have to step one foot in a church ever in your life, but you do need him or you are a walking dead man. Jesus railed at the Sanhedrin and criticized pharisees because they obeyed a tradition of men, followed God as according to their ways and not his. There is a right way and a wrong way and any other way than through Christ is the wrong way.

Isn't that right there the very cult like dogma of the Christian church? Nothing else counts, your religion is wrong, wrong, wrong, mine is the ONLY right one, there are no others. Think of it this way. We all face a very high mountain. At the top is the Divine Presence, something I think most of us desire to touch. All climb the mountain, but each on a separate path. You whole post smacks of this mentality, your statement

You do not have to step one foot in a church ever in your life, but you do need him or you are a walking dead man.

is a good indicator of this. Are you trying to say I do not have a Spirit, or a Soul, unless I am a card carrying member of the Jesus Cult? You did know that his bones have been found, right here on Earth?
www.abovetopsecret.com...
I do not mean to insult you, just calling it like I see it. That is a mighty big ego to have thinking like that. I know that I may not be right all the time, but I also know that I am not wrong all the time either. The purpose of human life is to make mistakes, and learn from them. Remember childhood? Same principles. We do not have just the one book to guide us along, we have many such books. One group does not have an ultimate lock on truth, and even to think that is far from what truth really is.

reply posted on 11-3-2012 @ 11:26 AM by Minori

reply to post by Wonders

I applaud those with faith in their religions or beliefs. I can not help but think that there is one two many contradictions in the bible. That does not make me a non-believer. In a world that is powered by greed and control and deception you would think that people of a spiritual nature, regardless of what it is, could at least agree that there are misconceptions and contradictions. Jesus said "seek and ye shall find", that applied to everyone, not just a select few. It is not me that is doubting his words, I have faith that he will indeed reveal himself to anyone who in true intention is looking for him, I say this with confidence because I myself have found him, and others who have found him can confirm there is no denying the grace of God. In the end it is not about how we got there, it is the fact that we did.

PLPL

reply posted on 11-3-2012 @ 05:38 PM by Wonders

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Wonders

I applaud those with faith in their religions or beliefs. I can not help but think that there is one two many contradictions in the bible. That does not make me a non-believer. In a world that is powered by greed and control and deception you would think that people of a spiritual nature, regardless of what it is, could at least agree that there are misconceptions and contradictions. Jesus said "seek and ye shall find", that applied to everyone, not just a select few. It is not me that is doubting his words, I have faith that he will indeed reveal himself to anyone who in true intention is looking for him, I say this with confidence because I myself have found him, and others who have found him can confirm there is no denying the grace of God. In the end it is not about how we got there, it is the fact that we did.

PLPL

I don't agree with a lot of what you have said, what I do agree with you upon is that there are many contradictions in the bible, and it doesn't make me a non-believer either, in fact, it gives creedence to what Jesus taught all the more. I agree with Jesus when he says that everyone who sins is a slave to sin, now a slave is not a part of the family... Jesus asked, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers? Pointing to his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers. Anyone who does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother!"
And when he said, "My meat is to do the will of Him who sent Me." In the end it does matter how you got there, the fact is that you will be held accountable, just as anyone else. No need to try to convince me of your salvation, the fact that there are so many people trying to get into God's good graces by telling others that "God loves you so much that he could not bear to send your deserving self to hell, our God is just, but your salvation is undeserved." Therein lies the biggest contradiction, between what Paul taught, and what Jesus taught.

reply posted on 11-3-2012 @ 05:49 PM by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by Minori

There is no right or wrong religion

That right there is where you are wrong. You do not need religion, but you do need Jesus the Christ. You do not have to step one foot in a church ever in your life, but you do need him or you are a walking dead man. Jesus railed at the Sanhedrin and criticized pharisees because they obeyed a tradition of men, followed God as according to their ways and not his. There is a right way and a wrong way and any other way than through Christ is the wrong way.
edit on 10-3-2012 by lonewolf19792000 because: (no reason given)

That is your belief and way and not everyones way. From my point of view you are still caught up in duality and ego but to each his/her own. You are probably enjoying duality to much to give it up and I can understand that. Duality is a fun thing that you are able to experiance on this planet.

But you might mean the spirit from god and you do not make any destinction of the man Jesus and the holy spirit. People are geting the spirit from indian/budhistic/muslim belifs all over the world and just because they do not call the spritit Jesus Christ do not mean it is not the same thing. I do not need to say it is Jesus Christ spirit to recive it. The name Jesus Christ only have power in your mind and in other minds it can mean nothing. Do you mean that a buddhist monk in Thailand that have the spirit in him and is pushing chi and is one of the shiny happy people do not have the right devine spirit because he/she will not call it Jesus Christ. In that case you are caught up in duality badly.

reply posted on 11-3-2012 @ 06:19 PM by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by lonewolf19792000

I was not saying that Jesus is not the way. I was saying that all true spiritual paths lead to him. If an individual is truly seeking their creator, not just conforming to what they were born into, they will find him. That seems to be the problem lately, God has put faith in us , and yet we seem to have lost faith in him. How many of us can actually say that they made the choice to follow Christ?? How many of us can say that they have challenged their current beliefs. How many of us can actually say that we sought him out and found him?? Something needs to change, the old ways of thinking do not work anymore. What matters more, the fact that a person communicates with God, or what name their God has?? That is why many turn away from Christianity they have made God out to be a mean monster, and not the loving father that he truly is.

PLPL

Can defintly relate to what you are writing. When I was small I hated going to church because the whole place was of judgment and not joy/caring/harmony/love at all. I have had my own battles with god in what have happened in my life and I have been very unhappy with the crap I have been thru. But I had a moment where I was as low as I could be and got help and my own proof that is for me. I have a very personal relationship with god and get the answers I need to make sense of it all. I read a book about toltec wisdom at the right moment that was the devine trigger for me. After that I have read both buddhism and some from Jesus and of course Einstein quotes about god. I could have gotten a bible instead and I would have said it was Christ who awoke me but in my case it was a toltec book. What book I read to wake up do not matter it is the waking up that matters.

In the beginning I could not call the devine god because god had a corrupt value in my mind. It was not a name for the devine and sometimes I feel that the devine I love get a lot of badmouth crap that it do not deserve. I even think the bibble sometimes is blasphemous because it blames the devine for things that is the humans lack of understanding the devine and pushing their ego onto it. The devine I have meet do not have the ego. I do not need to follow god the person/the singular from my point of view. I need to strive to follow the devine teachings that can be understood by logic and intelligence and wisdom. It is the lesson that is important not who is telling it. I do not need to learn the names of who is devine but become devine. Worship is not apart of my realtionship with god.

reply posted on 11-3-2012 @ 06:36 PM by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Wonders

I guess it depends on your definition of unconditional love. I was not aware that there were standards placed on emotions. What a person feels is something only they can express. What you consider to be love may be completely different then the next persons. Unconditional love looks past all faults, no matter what.

PLPL
Let me remind you that God hated Esau. There are sheep and there are goats, there is wheat and there are tares, we may all share the world right now, but one day we will be separated. When people go to hell, it's because God (God is love) has standards. I could go further but I hope you get the idea.

Just beceause someone is filled with ego and is not ready for the next stage do not mean god hates them. He might dislike their behaviour and realise that they are not ready but that do not equal hate. God have to take care of all his souls and letting souls go where they do not yeet fit in will not be fair to either the souls there and the soul put there. Every life has lessons and learning that you have to fix what you break and take responsability is also one of gods lessons. There is a secret about hell/evolution that even Jesus told one of his desiple when he had a problem with eternal damnation (according to nonbiblical sources). Judgement to hell is not forever and have never been. But that should not be told to the people since then they will keep on sining.

From my point of view. All will in the end be part of the whole again in harmony.

edit on 11-3-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking

reply posted on 11-3-2012 @ 08:31 PM by Wonders

Originally posted by apushforenlightment

Originally posted by Wonders

Originally posted by Minori
reply to post by Wonders

I guess it depends on your definition of unconditional love. I was not aware that there were standards placed on emotions. What a person feels is something only they can express. What you consider to be love may be completely different then the next persons. Unconditional love looks past all faults, no matter what.

PLPL
Let me remind you that God hated Esau. There are sheep and there are goats, there is wheat and there are tares, we may all share the world right now, but one day we will be separated. When people go to hell, it's because God (God is love) has standards. I could go further but I hope you get the idea.

Just beceause someone is filled with ego and is not ready for the next stage do not mean god hates them. He might dislike their behaviour and realise that they are not ready but that do not equal hate. God have to take care of all his souls and letting souls go where they do not yeet fit in will not be fair to either the souls there and the soul put there. Every life has lessons and learning that you have to fix what you break and take responsability is also one of gods lessons. There is a secret about hell/evolution that even Jesus told one of his desiple when he had a problem with eternal damnation (according to nonbiblical sources). Judgement to hell is not forever and have never been. But that should not be told to the people since then they will keep on sining.

From my point of view. All will in the end be part of the whole again in harmony.
edit on 11-3-2012 by apushforenlightment because: spellchecking

Please point out where you agree and where you disagree, with biblical reasoning to back it up. Please try not to mince your words and please clarify whether or not you are saying that Jesus LIED to others. You really should read the bible. BUT since you haven't already, and are still shoveling this drivel towards strangers, I'll just leave you with this: www.letgodbetrue.com...
Maybe it could help you, but I doubt it. So be it.

reply posted on 12-3-2012 @ 02:07 PM by Minori

reply to post by apushforenlightment

Actually that is not what I was saying. My point is that we all connect to creator "god" in our own way. It's my opinion that there is no right or wrong way to do it. Just because someone is walking the Christian path does not make the person who practices Buddhism wrong, it is just their form of communication. I think it is a ridiculous notion that there is only one right way to link to the divine. We all find "god" in our own way, some people connect through nature some meditation, I'm sure you get my drift. If ten people all with different beliefs were given a bible passage to read or a sutra and then asked to interpret what was said, they would all more or less getting something different out of it.

PLPL

reply posted on 12-3-2012 @ 02:15 PM by Minori

reply to post by Wonders

One of the main driving forces behinde my quest for answers were all the contradictions within the bible. The other really big issue I have is the fact that we no nothing of Jesus in his teenage years. We knew he was the Messiah from birth, but yet we failed to document those crucial years????? That in my opinion is downright fishy, and warrants some suspicion.

PLPL

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