This is how humanity will end...potentially.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by SyphonX

 

Ever wonder if a single neuron in your brain thinks itself to be a self aware individual?

I have, and it's logical considering the way the universe is structured, infinity and all that. However, we can neither fully comprehend the possibility of what you suggest, nor could we comprehend the singularity. We certainly can't regress and deconstruct to liberate our ideological neurons, even if we could.. I don't think that's a good idea even if proven true, or remotely possible for that matter. Hypothetical. Maybe the entire universe is just a cipher of neurons and stars, and we need to go backwards to unlock it. Why always forward, why the 'merge'. Are we to be a giant neuron/star and nothing more?

The singularity if realized, is an abyss asking humanity to jump in and trust it. What we know now, is that humanity more or less completely sucks, but as a whole, we can manage to hang on and smooth out the rough edges long enough to tell ourselves everything is okay. Almost all evidence of humanity as we know it suggests "mob mentality" is bad. Group-think is bad. Organized hivemind is bad. Bad things happen.. see all of history (all of which that isn't totally lost) for further reference.

The only way to combat the chaos is to maintain the ability for creative thought, and individuality. One free mind can keep the chaos from collapsing in on itself, and back into the abyss. In a full singularity, when everything merges, how do you maintain individuality and free will? What happens in the event of a critical failure.. of any kind, and the hivemind is unable to fix itself. The whole idea of a "merge" suggests the sacrifice of the individual, and too much is lost if that's the case.

The worst organic version of this is probably militaristic fascism. Enforced hivemind and oppressed free-will. Absolute total destruction of everything that matters, least of all life.

If someone is mentally ill, all neurons a go, all synapses firing. If they feel the need to end their life by their own hand, can a single neuron that comprehends itself as a free-thinking individual save itself in such an event? It seems to me the neurons sacrificed individuality for the hivemind and the lights are going out.

reply to post by SaturnFX



If advanced AI were to introduce such a code into itself, it'd be mimicking humans, which an intelligent and logical machine wouldn't have any need for. Which is part of my point, that we're taking how "we" are and thinking AI would be "just like us" in many ways. The idea of a "needy" robot or AI doesn't make sense, since it'd have to artificially lessen its intelligence or logic to do so.

So part of the base programming is to survive. But then is it part of the base programming what it enjoys, dislikes, ect? Part of AI is its ability to choose for itself what it wants. If you program in what it should do, it's a toy rather than AI. The "base programming" as you say isn't even about the robot/AI, it's about the owners "if this thing gets destroyed, it's going to cost me a lot of money". There wouldn't be a "core or base program" because at the point of it actually becoming self aware, it would have access to all the code and be able to change it.

Emotional drive...again you're trying to imprint human qualities on something that would have no desire or need to become "human". A theory for laughter arising during evolution is when someone trips over themselves and someone starts laughing. In a group, that quick communication of laughter signaled to the others that there is no danger, someone's just an idiot. Or when the adrenaline starts pumping when you're afraid. How exactly is an AI going to replicate that? And why would it want to?

So again, why would a robot or AI have fear? It wouldn't. A lot of this seems akin to a girl with her doll. It's made of plastic, but she projects onto the plastic her feelings and believes it's her doll is real.




A mountain isn't alive. The difference between AI, a mouse or "us" is we have desires or needs which require negotiating through nature or the environment. What is an AI's environment? It would be itself. The interplay we experience with the environment wouldn't exist with AI.

You didn't address how AI could have negative feelings that it decides to have independently. And I said in total control of itself, not the environment. But what makes you think AI would hold the same prejudice as humans toward natural disasters? Again, it didn't have to deal with the environment to care one way or the other.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
You would merge with a robot?
That's how ditached you are with the world around you and everything it has to offer.
I would never dream of merging my valuable and beautiful body with a chunk of metal and plastic.

You have to be depressed for that. IMHO.

Yes, but your valuable and beautiful body is going to wear out at some point. That wont matter if you can upload yourself into a better body as it becomes available. As soon as self aware sentient AI starts to drive technology development, we are going to see a surge in technology that will be almost incomprehensible.. And I am sure it wont be long after that, that robots will have the option of having a body indistinguishable from an organic human, except it will be a LOT more durable. I think there will be something akin to the human like Cylons in BSG. So if you want to be for all intents and purposes immortal in a perfect body that will never get cancer, I don't think that's a bad option. A lot better than being a wrinkled old invalid in a nursing home. This is of course, if we manage to put controls in that keeps that AI from wiping us out.

Reminds me of the Animatrix history. Specifically these two parts: please watch it's very interesting.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I tend to have a view that humanity as a whole "brings things into existance".

It's scary, but I think about the same thing. Whatever people conceive in their minds, tends to happen in reality. All it takes is an idea and from that one hundred other ideas come, and ideas from those. Everything we can dream of has the potential of becoming reality. 200 years ago, people would have regarded a cell phone or a computers as a magic or alien device, 200 years isn't really a very long time with all things considered. On the flip side, put thoughts of war and spite in enough peoples minds and it will happen. Where there is a will there is a way.

Literally anything is inevitably possible. Whatever people think tends to become real, life is such a powerful force.

I don't understand all the fear about AI.

Most if not all of it will be expert-based, performing menial pattern-recognition tasks.

I believe that the use of AI is to make it work for us. We use it like a slave, like a machine. Machines do physical labor, AI does thinking labor. If the AI is human-like, with a desire to live and so on, then it can no longer be a slave. Why would businesses make something like this then? There's no incentive. People are already afraid of AI right now. This fear will increase as AI becomes more human-like. Others will insist that if AI is human-like then it must be respected and treated as another life-form. Laws will be issued. The government and court system will swam around it. Companies already know today that expert AI systems are safer and this is the direction they will go to avoid prosecution and its legal costs. Because of this, we're more likely, in my estimation, to have human minds on computers before we have human-like AI on computers. Just look at the facts objectively and do not insert your own fears or prejudices.

Expert AI systems will cotinue to improve. We will have robots and incredible software available. But none of it's going to be on the level of a human being. It simply is there to serve us. It has not will to survive, no more than a machine does. There's no point in fearing it. Fearing it only brings out the ignorance that's inside you and puts it on display. There's nothing chivalrous about ignorance.

reply to post by jonnywhite


It has been argued, that when computing power reaches a certain point, it might be possible to simulate the entire universe, down to the subatomic particle level. At that point, if there was an "Earth" in the simulation, and people on that earth, its very plausible that they wont know they are simulated. It has even been postulated that we ARE living in a simulation. So when you think about that, if we are able to 100 percent simulate a conscious mind, a conscious robot might not realize its a robot, and would certainly have a sense of self preservation.I suppose you can build safety's into that (for the benefit of the humans). But its kind of scary because you know there will be people out there who will abuse them.

reply to post by openminded2011

You know what baffles me?

Why are people so afraid of robotic intelligneces that don't even exist yet. And, ironically, research is already underway and has been for a long while, to implant chips into living brain tissue. They're developing the necessary interfaces and materials to make this work. So I ask you, why are you not afraid of the cyborgs??????? They're more likely than the hypothetical artificial robotic intelligences. That's the problem. These fears are hypothetical, not rationale. You're projecting fears that're inside you (of other things) onto these hypothetical robotic intelligences, perhaps because you feel vulnerable to them.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by openminded2011

 

You know what baffles me?

Why are people so afraid of robotic intelligneces that don't even exist yet.

Yep. Pretty much all of transhumanist theory is science fiction. It's a mountain of abstractions, built on another mountain of hypotheticals.

I've believed for a very long time, that it is extremely unlikely that strong artificial intelligence will ever occur. The single main reason why, is because the whole idea relies on Cartesian mechanism; the idea that machines, whether biological or otherwise, are all that exist, and that the universe we live in is entirely non-animistic; i.e., corporeal reality is the only thing that exists. As far as I am concerned, that is complete BS.

Not gonna happen. We'll be long gone before this could occur...

It's quite possible if someone develops a computer with enough artificial self learning capabilities, it could redesign itself better, and better and better exponentially allowing for something like this to be possible in a short time frame.

Interesting!

AI will be driven by human desires. The desire to make war, the desire for sex and companionship or the desire to push the envelope of possibility. To be more human than the human.
Our creation will emulate us because we will want it to. Plain and simple. We shape our world into effigies of our humanity. We even imagine our Gods with purely human traits. Our cars, our pets and so on. I can't help to think that it must be hardwired into us. The intellect and emotion are the highest form of our geniuses uniqueness.
And again I must protest that there is nothing in the "natural" world that can't be duplicated and made real through the dreams of humanity.

But mostly for the hot robot sex. Giggity Giggity.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by libertytoall
Humanity will end by TPTB blaming Jews for the problems of the world. Black people and Muslims will unite in a final racially charged religious battle against Jews and Christians. This will eventually lead to global nuclear disaster.

What...the hell does that have to do with anything.

First off, beyond it being so far off topic, its also dripping with pure ignorance to a degree I haven't seen in quite sometime on ATS.

Black people and muslims will unite against jews and christians
yes
because we all know black people cannot be christian themselves....

I feel ashamed for even replying to this post. how sad...how very sad.

I feel bad you don't understand deep entrenched black culture / religious heritage. I'm sorry you don't fully understand the Old and New Testament or the Koran. Regardless of Muslim or Christian one thing they all share is they are Gods chosen people and this is probably true. Black Christians get saved while the white ones don' because madness will prevail in killing all Jews and White Christians for the wrongs of the world. Economic/Conquest.. Jesus was a black man and he and his father favor Islam. It was the Black Jesus who flipped over the tables in the temple that was profiteering. Notice the similarities. We are surrounded by those same greedy infiltrating blood suckers. But in the end all people will be taken.

We're on road to nowhere....

What an interesting postulation. loved the real time cgi by the way. Makes me wonder what the next gen platforms will be capable of. simply amazing.

As for robot and rights. just like black people were made slaves and had to fight for recognition as equal robots will do the same. Seems the more things change the more they stay the same. We wont be alive to see the revolution but we will see its inception I believe.

Great topic. S&F

reply to post by Turq1


Your forgetting something though
We are evolving it...guess you could call it intelligent design
We are promoting human qualities, and the system will be likened after us and our comfortable tastes. We won't be making the best artificial amoeba, or groundhog...what we do, be its physical or mental attributes will be mimicing human behavior (except for tools..but I am talking about the grand design of personal robotics).

We are giving birth as a species...and you can even go biblical in that respect...as god created man in his own image, so man will create robot in his own image.

does it make sense? yes and no...creating AI just for the sake of it is pointless...unless it serves a point, and the point it seems to serve is to enhance and mirror ourselves.

So, yes...there is a bit of anthropomorphic principles at work here, but that is because we are likely to progress ourselves in a different medium as the keystone of new life.

Originally posted by petrus4

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by openminded2011

 

You know what baffles me?

Why are people so afraid of robotic intelligneces that don't even exist yet.

Yep. Pretty much all of transhumanist theory is science fiction. It's a mountain of abstractions, built on another mountain of hypotheticals.

I've believed for a very long time, that it is extremely unlikely that strong artificial intelligence will ever occur. The single main reason why, is because the whole idea relies on Cartesian mechanism; the idea that machines, whether biological or otherwise, are all that exist, and that the universe we live in is entirely non-animistic; i.e., corporeal reality is the only thing that exists. As far as I am concerned, that is complete BS.

Interesting
The only ones denying this as an inevitability are basically spiritualists...whom have only one consistant historical attribute assigned to them
to be completely wrong, all the time.

I think I will go with the top minds alive verses some shamen whom will say it won't happen, then do a raindance so the cloud spirits will make it rain.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Cool vid, I like Kara.

There are not that many differences other then the obvious from what was depicted in that video and actual biological humans. However it is not that simple or easy. Because Emotions are programs as well, only embedded into the mass consciousness even in our world and existence basically our soroundings, and it's all expressed in individualism consciousness.

They are a product of life and living in a flawed existence, a robot would not want to live because life is illogical, but if it was withing this framework this wavelength it will be human like. It will behave and be like any other creature that is alive only under its specifications. Why do we live? A question most humans do not and can not ask themselves as they go about there daily scuttle on this planet. We are robots as well, we have purposes, a code, a pattern, a goal, and we go about it like were programmed to do so.

We are biological robots in many ways, filling our life's quotas every day and the specifics of what those quotas are has changed through time, but not the fact that we still must fill our quotas our programming, we can self program ourselves but in the end only to certain degrees...After all we can not program ourselves to not eat, or not pee, so we are still cogs in the greater machine..The machine called earth, our mother, that which defines us and what we do.

There is nothing to machine lifeforms but what we make of it. Kind of like how there is no good or evil but thinking makes it so...However there is bad, because some things just do not mix well and something that can potentially live for thousands of years will no doubt put a wrench in something that is only around for a mere 80 or so years.

But if brought to this wavelength they will have to play by what defines this wavelength, and that is life. If we make them in our image, don't be surprised that they will be like us. After all a super smart toaster is still a toaster, but functional machines in the form of man will be like man. The form it takes is as important as the form it creates. The whole lets make them in our image has been done before, and is done in everything that breeds and lives, and variation and randomness will spring forth because what else would they do.

Why? some ask. Why not? others say.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I think I will go with the top minds alive verses some shamen whom will say it won't happen, then do a raindance so the cloud spirits will make it rain.

Aurgumentum ad verecundiam

Something I've always found very interesting, on the part of the scientistic, is that a group of people who you would expect to be flawlessly rational, almost always holds the above fallacy as their own first law.

That lecture was interesting. It would have been moreso if it hadn't taken half the video, for the lecturer to get to the point.

Truly amazing! What is this a concept video for?

i dont understand why you would give a robot thats stronger than you, with a higher level of computation, emotions?

or the ability to question and free will, that will just end very badly.

dumb idea.