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This is how humanity will end...potentially.

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posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:38 PM
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And you will probably cheer for it (yes, even you sane ones).

I wanted to introduce to you a video that is going a bit viral now. Feel free to watch the video and comment on its implications without reading further if you want to discuss only the concept of consciousness in robotics



ok, this is a truely awesome video (the definition of awesome also...meaning struck with awe)...lets discuss its layers

first, this is a demo of a year old technology. the developers simply did this to show off their realtime rendering technique they are developing..ok, geek stuff, nerdgasm alert, but otherwise, not really the point of the thread (but for gamers, its good stuff to know coming down the pipeline). (sidenote, I do hope they push this concept further..what a interesting start of a game, or movie...not unique (bicentennial man, AI, etc) but very well done)

Now, for the meat of this thread..its a old idea, but an idea that is becoming more and more prevalant in our culture..when do robots get rights? Could you dissect this "person" in the video if this was a real situation?

What would then be of humanity when robots can equal our emotional status, our flaws, etc...what happens if a robot expresses an emotion it is not programmed for (such as fear, or anger)? Where is the line? Is this the ultimate next step for our evolution as a species?

This event playing out in the video may be 50, or 500 years down the line, but it seems it will happen one day..almost destined for it. How do we as a species react to this event? Do we welcome a new species, far superior to our own...or do we destroy it in our own personal fear?

(My hope...we merge with it)

I tend to have a view that humanity as a whole "brings things into existance". Meaning we as individuals tend to be a bit short sighted and idiotic, but connected, we tend to have a greater picture understanding. For decades now, we have been discussing the ifs and whens of AI becoming sentient...for better or worse. Its passed off currently as sci-fi, but it really isn't when you look at the path tech is taking us...(I am for it btw). I think we know as a species that we are self evolving ourselves and may in fact give birth to a new evolution of mankind...this time silicone based verses protein/carbon based...but yes, I think we as greater humanity is currently pregnant with our own creation.



Anyhow, thoughts?



One comment I read (read: I am pro-choice and see 1st trimester fetuses as little more than replicating cells, so don't think I am pushing any agenda)..but one comment that did raise my eyebrows in interest was "this is what an aborted fetus would say if it could speak".
Now that is how to argue a point imo...and would definitely agree for 3rd and perhaps even late 2nd trimester




posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


I commented on a thread a while ago regarding a new movie about a man and a robot. I started to think along the lines you are talking about here in this thread.
Instead of re writing my view here is the quote from the other thread. I love the implications good or bad regarding this subject it's very interesting from a moral point of view.




I've always wondered about this day and when it would come. The whole subject brings up a lot of questions. At what point do we trust robots enough to perform these types of delicate human interactions? Do we wait until we actually give consciousness to them ? Or do we just do it when we feel the programming has enough fail safes built into it to almost guarantee there will be no accidents? What about robot abuse ? What if some people like Frank go farther in their displeasure. What if they begin to abuse the robots? Do we develope laws based on their rights as living creatures? Regardless of the fact they are machines? Because they have consciousness does that afford them the same rights as us to physical abuse ? Are the robots covered by insurance companies ? Does the patient have any rights ? Are the robots activities monitored on a continuous basis ? I could go on but those are a few of my basic questions regarding the subject.It's a tricky idea that raises a lot of doubt in my mind as to the effectiveness of it , but I just don't think we are there yet. I wouldn't really feel safe with robot's taking on that much of a role yet in our society unless A.I was achieved beyond a doubt and a computer mind could be stable and trustworthy. There is no guarantee that creating another life form such as A.I would mean it would be benign. I think we are taking the right steps towards this type of situation but I think we need to still make a giant leap in computing to achieve this goal.




posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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This is a bridge we will certainly have to cross and I think Kurzwells team is already trying to shape a new set of moral issues and laws to usher in the singularity. I think these androids will get mixed feelings from the public. Some will empathize, while others will always view them as machines and less than human. Hell at some point some will consider them abominations and start protesting.

It maybe cynical, but I think we should always include a kill(De-activate) switch as a precaution with these new entities. I wonder if, like Data from STNG, an emotion chip should be optional. Emotions and logic could be a dangerous combination for such high levels of intelligence.

My guess is at some point, rights will be assigned to our new brethren, and laws will be created to protect them.
What makes me curious is how will religious organizations ever accept these advances and creations?
I wonder if the new androids accept Jesus, will they be accepted?

Man I don't really know, it is a bizarre subject, and I have mixed feelings, but yea this may be how humanity....jumps track to an end, or it could be a new beginning to accommodate new life and expand our tolerance to include our new cyber friends. There will always be some opposed and probably some out to destroy such advances, but overall my guess is the sentience will evolve and be accepted and protected by society.

spec



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by mark1167
 

Frank and the Robot:
www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by mark1167
 


Its such a murky area
Are they toasters? What is the difference (outside of simple biology) between a man and a AI (lets assume no programming at all, but instead, neural net adaptive self programming).

Even I, being all for such tech developed, am philosophically challenged when it comes to such a discussion..its almost alien in its oddness, yet on the other hand, its like lighting a fuse attached to a bomb...you know the bomb will most certainly be going off and perhaps soon, so, its time to start having very well rooted feelings about the bomb and a reaction plan.

I think manifestation is important. The video shows a few good examples of unique non artificial programming...the thinking in general, then the emotional development (of fear) out of..well, a scary situation. This to me signifies unique thought, but then we start going down the what is consciousness road..and that is when things become very obscure.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
What makes me curious is how will religious organizations ever accept these advances and creations?
I wonder if the new androids accept Jesus, will they be accepted?

Now that is a interesting situation.
Would the standard christian feel the need to convert a robot, given there is no original sin on the robot to begin with? interesting. I think I would be on the team that says "If God wants something from them, let him come down and speak to them directly verses have us dictate their requirements for worshipping a deity"

That might calm some down..same with aliens really. the tale of the biblical god applies to humans only and exclusively as to what we must do...and in no way effects other species of life, be it robot, alien, etc. in my opinion



but yea this may be how humanity....jumps track to an end, or it could be a new beginning to accommodate new life and expand our tolerance to include our new cyber friends.


I think Kurzweil is right here. We will meld with our creation over time, and eventually to a point of where a fully biological human will be akin to a yeti or some strange tribe in the middle of nowhere, disconnected from greater civilization...a tribe of apes in the wild that is viewed from afar simply for sake of curiousity and amusement.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:06 PM
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kinda makes you wonder if that's the reason Caprica was cancelled (aside form the supposed low ratings)

And now NBC is reanimating the concept with a new show this fall called beautiful People, about household servant robot/androids that revolt against humanity.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm conditioning?



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
reply to post by mark1167
 

Frank and the Robot:
www.abovetopsecret.com...


The one who got my mind spinning with all of this in the first place!
I was hoping you might pop by to join in.
I remember the video I showed in that earlier thread as well regarding the robot baby they are teaching to learn.

Here it is.


I think we are well on our way with the technology to make this moment actually happen one day, but what scares me is we just don't know enough still about creating life to know what might happen.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by mark1167
I think we are well on our way with the technology to make this moment actually happen one day, but what scares me is we just don't know enough still about creating life to know what might happen.


Random thought:
What if we are to Robots, what God is to us?

a lesser species creating, out of trial and error perhaps, something that exceeded itself....after all, isn't that the ultimate goal of creating anything, to surpass your own self.
We don't create calculators that are slower than our math skills naturally, we don't create bulldozers that are weaker than us simply pushing stuff, etc...



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 

First off, full disclosure. I'm not only anti-abortion, but I'm also a Battlestar Galactica freak.
So cylon, here we come!

Sounds like "it" (I watched the video) would pass a Turing Test (sp?).

As for the death of humanity, let me posit a few questions.

What's to stop us downlaoding a person into an android?
What is the soul?
What is emotion?
Could an emotion like love be "programmed"?



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:19 PM
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Why would a robot or AI want to "live"? Living/experiencing are human desires, applying that to inanimate objects isn't logical - which is something a robot or AI would be.
edit on 10-3-2012 by Turq1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by mark1167
I think we are well on our way with the technology to make this moment actually happen one day, but what scares me is we just don't know enough still about creating life to know what might happen.


Random thought:
What if we are to Robots, what God is to us?

a lesser species creating, out of trial and error perhaps, something that exceeded itself....after all, isn't that the ultimate goal of creating anything, to surpass your own self.
We don't create calculators that are slower than our math skills naturally, we don't create bulldozers that are weaker than us simply pushing stuff, etc...



(Taken from a book, I can't remember the title)

Would robots dream of an electric Heaven?



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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a lesser species creating, out of trial and error perhaps, something that exceeded itself....after all, isn't that the ultimate goal of creating anything, to surpass your own self.
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


IS this the goal of creating A.I.? I'm not sure what the goal really is. Was it ever defined why we need to create it? The why question to me kind of seems lost in the whole process.I think the reason people create things are for a lot of complex reasons. Creating life usually infers you want to perpetuate your species and make sure you live on in some way into the future. Creating A.I would surely do this in a strange kind of way.Knowing the only legacy of the human race after we are all gone will be a planet filled with robots that look and act like us but are they us?



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:27 PM
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hi op
great thread
(i love my gameing also)
quantum comps will play a big part in all of this

moral implicity...mmmm
2 films spring to mind
I robot, we know the reason for that one
but what about
Short Circuit 2
jonny was persuaded to do a bank job...

another idea (because i think of other people)
this could help the elderly that are bed ridden
a robot wont find it disgusting to change the dirty sheets
honestly i see this as a good thing for elderly and seriously ill.
just a thought
cheers
dave



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:28 PM
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I'm not going to cheer for it.

Things like this are the reason why I picked up books on robotics before I was ten years old; and then put them down again, and didn't go back to the subject for nearly 30 years. I didn't want to be part of the creation of things like Kara, even back then.

It needs to be understood that the people who want to develop things like this are extremely sick. With that said, my own passion where machines are concerned, is not merely to learn to use the technology, but to learn to use it with integrity.

That is the true challenge, where robots are concerned. Not designing them; that will come as a matter of course. The real challenge is developing a solid ethos in association with technology of this magnitude, such that we do not destroy ourselves with it.

We cannot, perhaps sadly, turn our backs on it. We cannot, as much as some of us would like to, take the Republican or conservative Christian route, and simply outlaw humanoid robotic development. It will not work. The mad scientists, the type of sick animal that was depicted as having invented David in Speilberg's film, will still work tirelessly in basements and other dark places regardless of the laws that are passed. The mad scientists cannot all be found, and they cannot be stopped.

Our only option is to implement the technology ourselves before they do, and to do it in such a way that their own depravity is not realised. Outlawing the technology and its' development is not the answer; were we to do that, we would leave its' development solely in the hands of the pathologically obsessed, who are willing to break any law to continue their research, and for whom ethics mean nothing.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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That robot represents us humans. We have potential, were alive, we can do whatever we want, but this system thinks for us..t.v..media..etc.

Thats how i see it.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SaturnFX
 

First off, full disclosure. I'm not only anti-abortion, but I'm also a Battlestar Galactica freak.
So cylon, here we come!

Sounds like "it" (I watched the video) would pass a Turing Test (sp?).

As for the death of humanity, let me posit a few questions.

What's to stop us downlaoding a person into an android?
What is the soul?
What is emotion?
Could an emotion like love be "programmed"?


Your questions remind me of a Star trek episode when a dying scientist downloaded his "being" into Data. Let's just say things didn't go to well. The stronger more aggressive personality of the scientist took over and surpressed the weaker personality and brain of Data. With his new found immortality and strength the scientist soon began to change and it didn't go well.
edit on 10-3-2012 by mark1167 because: text



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by SaturnFX
 

First off, full disclosure. I'm not only anti-abortion, but I'm also a Battlestar Galactica freak.
So cylon, here we come!

Sounds like "it" (I watched the video) would pass a Turing Test (sp?).


The Turing test is garbage. I've seen the code for chat bots; they're a text database with a pattern matching algorithm, and nothing more. They are pure smoke and mirrors, and are no more a form of AI than anything else we have ever developed.

Strong AI is an atheistic wet dream, but not much else. The only way it is going to happen, is if it is (at least partly) biologically based. It can't be done with silicon chip technology as we currently know it, because the necessary scale of per-node miniaturisation can't go down far enough.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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there are a lot of theories out there, maybe anything that can go wrong will go wrong

I like the idea that the earth has a life cycle and that the earth has been fully populated and fully technologically advanced on more than one occasion and after disaster strikes the few survivors are thrown back into the stone age and civilisation starts again






posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by mark1167


Your questions remind me of a Star trek episode when a dying scientist downloaded his "being" into Data. Let's just say things didn't go to well. The stronger more aggressive personality of the scientist took over and surpressed the weaker personality and brain of Data. With his new found immortality and strength the scientist soon began to change and it didn't go well.
edit on 10-3-2012 by mark1167 because: text


I remember that episode!


You bring up a goodpoint, though.

Our cultural, ethical morality is based on part, by aging, dying. If aging and ding are no longer an issue, what kind of culture would that create?





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