Geoengineering - caught in the act?

Originally posted by thorfourwinds

Is every single one of these photos nothing more than contrails?

Pretty much, although there were a few natural clouds. Contrails come in all shapes and skizes, depending on the weather conditions.

Especially this one, where the 'natural clouds' are readily apparent and the 'other clouds' are of a different stripe, if you know what we speak of...

Those are not contrails, that looks like a bank of cirrostratus. Most of the white over the land is actually snow. There are some more cirrostratus in the upper right, you can see the streaking. Those clouds are not at all uncommon, here's some from a couple of days ago:

lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov...

(The two white lines are image processing glitches, obviously).

Here's another:
lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov...

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by thorfourwinds
Is every single one of these photos nothing more than contrails?

Pretty much, although there were a few natural clouds. Contrails come in all shapes and skizes, depending on the weather conditions.

Greetings:

Pretty much

We figured as much from you.

Not only do you evidently possess poor comprehension skills by completely evading the question, you continue to hedge your bets as Phage often does when it's in a corner with no escape.

Is every single one of these photos nothing more than contrails?

Where is the rest of the "contrail-only gang?"

Specifically, ProudBird, Phage, Chad, Gaul - where are your answers? We truly would like to be able to discern between "types" of (your word) contrails so as to feel more informed.

We too, would like to believe that 'nothing is wrong here,' but the mounting evidence to the contrary brings us to the situation here.

Are ALL of those photos we posted nothing more than contrails?

A simple 'yes' or 'no' might suffice.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Peace Love Light
tfw
[align=center][color=magenta]Liberty & Equality or Revolution[/align]

reply to post by thorfourwinds


Yes:

Are ALL of those photos we posted nothing more than contrails?

Well....some are "nothing more than contrails", yes....and others are nothing more than other types of cirrus clouds.


There are no active, extensive and intentional SRM campaigns currently underway, anywhere in the World. This is not difficult to understand --- as any such activity would be very big news, and would not be clandestine in nature.

What does happen (it could be semantically argued) is that normal Human activity has consequences, such as contrails (for example). Among other things...but contrails were the focus of this thread's premise.

The contrails, their formation, would it NOT BE for air traffic, would be less a factor, obviously.....since there would be no additional contribution (presence of the contrails) to spur and excite the atmosphere to make additional cirrus. But, the current "hullabaloo" over contrails is terribly over-stated and exaggerated --- since the actual surface are of the Earth that is ultimately affected (or even "covered") by the 'artificial' contrails is minimal, in comparison to the rest of the total surface area!


Haven't you yet seen a 24-hour time-lapsed view of the air traffic for the entire planet??




Keeping in mind that the sphere of the Earth is "flattened out" on that map, to make it two-dimensional (what is it called? Mercator Projection? Yeah, that's the one!).


It is quite evident that only a small portion of Earth is affected.

Furthermore, in terms of any actual SRM techniques, were they deemed necessary to be implemented one day, it seems logical that the focus of such attempts (since the idea is to mitigate Solar Radiation....or "Manage" it) would be where the Sun shines the most intently, on the Earth.....in other words, nearer the Equatorial regions.

Such as between the latitudes of the Tropic of Cancer and Tropic of Capricorn.

N'est pas??

Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Well here are a few pics for you...

See the blue skies, these were taken at 7:30 pm.

Thanks very much for the pictures, I am not seeing anything close to "Azure" for sure but your sky looks much better than ours here.

I envy you if that is an everyday occurrence in your neck of the woods...

Those pictures are not of what is called a blue sky, at least not from my memory.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by ProudBird

Keeping in mind that the sphere of the Earth is "flattened out" on that map, to make it two-dimensional (what is it called? Mercator Projection? Yeah, that's the one!).

Quibble, but the map in that video is actually Equirectangular, (aka Plate Carrée) and not Mercator.

This page has an excellent illustration of the difference:

www.radicalcartography.net...

Originally posted by Iwinder
Those pictures are not of what is called a blue sky, at least not from my memory.

In order to see an azure blue sky you generally have to either look up, or wear polarized sunglasses.

Our fond memories of blue summer skies are often accompanies with us laying in the sun, hence looking up.

The sky has always whitened towards the horizon. That's just physics. Have a look at these photos from 100 years ago. The sky then looks just like the sky now. Variable.

www.boston.com...

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

Originally posted by Iwinder
Can anyone here claim that the sky is the same deep blue (azure) now as it was back 15 years ago?
I mean this in all honesty, can you actually say it is the same?
Regards, Iwinder

Yep - had a lovely blue sky yesterday - a bit cloudy today, but not a trail of any sort in sight....

But you did not answer my question?........Is the sky the same deep blue it was 15 years ago?

On another post you provided a very good link for the Great Lakes region as well as the rest of North America and I thank you for that.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Iwinder
Those pictures are not of what is called a blue sky, at least not from my memory.

In order to see an azure blue sky you generally have to either look up, or wear polarized sunglasses.

Our fond memories of blue summer skies are often accompanies with us laying in the sun, hence looking up.

The sky has always whitened towards the horizon. That's just physics. Have a look at these photos from 100 years ago. The sky then looks just like the sky now. Variable.

www.boston.com...

OK check out the Chickens link and you will see that at this moment we have clear skies and I just went out and laid on my back and looked straight up, all I see is milky white, and yes the sun is shinning here right now.

Bottom of Lake Huron, and yes I do have fond memories and they go way back but the skies changed drastically about 15 years ago and I know what I see and I know what I have seen in the past.

Thanks for the reply though.
Regards, Iwinder


Link
lance-modis.eosdis.nasa.gov...

reply to post by Uncinus


I gnu it were or was won uf tham thar cumplikated thnigamajigs deskriptsuns.....

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Uncinus

 

I gnu it were or was won uf tham thar cumplikated thnigamajigs deskriptsuns.....

Gaul, is that you? Cat got your tongue?



Loop de loop planes spotted by eye witness.

reply to post by burntheships


Sorry, but once again you've posted a worthless, over-hyped video of normal contrails....that is labelled as "chemtrails", with an overlaid soundtrack from some inane radio talk show.


Over and over again, to repeat: Those are NORMAL contrails.

And a "loop de loop" (as you termed it) is actually an aerobatic maneuver that is performed in the vertical, not the horizontal.

Here is a list of various aerobatic maneuvers to titillate your senses.

The horizontal turning patterns you called a "loop" are just.....well, turns! Can be a simple and single 360° turn, or a defined Holding Pattern.....both are used by Air Traffic Control, when needed, for traffic management purposes.

This has been explained and explained to all the non-pilots here, repeatedly.....the information is there, and readily available, if people would just make the time to learn and understand.


Wanna see a real loop, in a small airplane? (Of course, you won't feel the G-forces):



I've done that (and others) and in the Cessna 150, too (and others)....but not, of course, in large Transport Category jets.

Although, the Chief Test Pilot for Boeing ("Tex" Johnson) DID do a barrel roll, in a Boeing 707....in the 1960s. Got into a LOT of trouble for it, but it was a selling point for Boeing's first commercial passenger jet model:




LOL!!


BTW --- Johnson refers to that maneuver as a "chandelle"....maybe an old-school term. Nowadays it's called a "Barrel Roll".....a chandelle, defined today, is something else....and does not involve going inverted.

A barrel roll is an aerial maneuver in which an airplane makes a complete rotation on its longitudinal axis while following a helical path, approximately maintaining its original direction. It is sometimes described as "a combination of a loop and a roll".

The barrel roll is a bit more "finesse" than a typical aileron roll.


Speaking of 'finesse', one of the BEST ever Air Show pilots was the great Bob Hoover. Video:

Originally posted by Iwinder
OK check out the Chickens link and you will see that at this moment we have clear skies and I just went out and laid on my back and looked straight up, all I see is milky white, and yes the sun is shinning here right now.

Bottom of Lake Huron, and yes I do have fond memories and they go way back but the skies changed drastically about 15 years ago and I know what I see and I know what I have seen in the past.

Well, thanks for at least giving it a go. I'm quite fascinated by this blue sky thing; people remembering the sky as being bluer. I think there's a variety of reasons why some people have this perception. Kodachrome being one of them. I don't think there's any really strong evidence that there's been a global change - scientists would have noticed.

The sky is somewhat milky here too, but that's normal. I live in Venice, California, and the sea always gives a bit of haze to everything.

Originally posted by ProudBird

The horizontal turning patterns you called a "loop" are just.....well, turns! Can be a simple and single 360° turn, or a defined Holding Pattern.....both are used by Air Traffic Control, when needed, for traffic management purposes.

So these "turns" are not performed by Commerical Airliners, correct? I have never
had a flight interrupted by a loop de loop, have you? A turn?

No.

ETA: Oh I see you edited your post, No I am not referring to holding patterns,
obviously.

Specifically as you claim your a commercial pilot working for a large
American airline corporation, when exactly is the last time you performed a "turn" as you called
it during a commercial flight???

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by Iwinder
OK check out the Chickens link and you will see that at this moment we have clear skies and I just went out and laid on my back and looked straight up, all I see is milky white, and yes the sun is shinning here right now.

Bottom of Lake Huron, and yes I do have fond memories and they go way back but the skies changed drastically about 15 years ago and I know what I see and I know what I have seen in the past.

Well, thanks for at least giving it a go. I'm quite fascinated by this blue sky thing; people remembering the sky as being bluer. I think there's a variety of reasons why some people have this perception. Kodachrome being one of them. I don't think there's any really strong evidence that there's been a global change - scientists would have noticed.

The sky is somewhat milky here too, but that's normal. I live in Venice, California, and the sea always gives a bit of haze to everything.

Your quite welcome for my first person point of view live as it did happen just before I posted a reply to you.

I have a memory and it is good so far (knock on wood) but my memory does not have a Kodachrome gene in it.

We do not have the effects of the Ocean here but we do have the Lakes, mind you today is a north wind with a temp at the time I was out back of about 40F with almost zero humidity to add to that.

The wife just got home from work and I had her lay on the same patio and look up ......her answer was immediate...chalky white maybe even milky white.
Pretty clear with the chickens link that something is not right here.
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by burntheships

Originally posted by ProudBird
reply to post by Uncinus

 

I gnu it were or was won uf tham thar cumplikated thnigamajigs deskriptsuns.....

Gaul, is that you? Cat got your tongue?

 

Loop de loop planes spotted by eye witness.



Excellent video, that is just what we see here every day and I do mean every day.

Thanks so much for that BTS!
Regards, Iwinder

reply to post by burntheships


Huh??

So these "turns" are not performed by Commerical Airliners, correct? I have never
had a flight interrupted by a loop de loop, have you? A turn?

No.

Yes, the answer is "Yes".....Commercial Airliners fly holding patterns all the time.

It was you that called it a "loop de loop", from that junky video....when all they showed were horizontal contrails formed by airliners in turns.

Just because 'you', personally, have never been on-board an airliner that had to enter a holding pattern, does not mean squat.....how many flights have you been on, anyways, in your lifetime?

I've lost count how many holding patterns I've had to fly, in all those decades. It's commonplace, usually in bad weather. But, in cases of traffic conflicts, as I already mentioned for air traffic control and sequencing management, it does occur in clear weather, just because of volume and congestion. And, at high enough altitudes, sometimes, where contrails will form.

Some months ago I posted the info for a flight inbound to LAX, that made one full 360° delay turn in the vicinity of Las Vegas.....it's posted here on ATS somewhere.....

If you watch on Flight Aware long enough, you will see them happening....that's how I found the one to use as an example here.


ETA:

Originally post4ed by burntheships

ETA: Oh I see you edited your post, No I am not referring to holding patterns,
obviously.

"obviously"?

You called the typical curving contrails from the video "loop de loops". The are NOT vertical trails, in the video.
So, they are, if not a perfectly defined holding pattern, then they are just another way for the airplane to alter course, as needed.....

...one other thing that would cause a major course change like that is a diversion, for whatever reason. We can have medical emergencies in-flight, or mechanical problems, etc....that require either a 180° turn back to the departure airport, or a diversion to an alternate.

Originally posted by ProudBird

Yes, the answer is "Yes".....Commercial Airliners fly holding patterns all the time.

Specifically I am not referring to a holding pattern. Whats wrong, did my question scare you?
When exactly is the last time YOU performed a full 360° turn in a commercial transport flight?

Some months ago I posted the info for a flight inbound to LAX, that made one full 360° delay turn in the vicinity of Las Vegas.....it's posted here on ATS somewhere.....

Just one? Only one?

reply to post by Iwinder


Your welcome Iwinder, Far too many of us have seen the pattern making,
I personally have witnessed a grid on many occasion. There are only so many
that could be cleared to perform such manuevers. That would be quite a flight path
to submit, would it not?

reply to post by burntheships

When exactly is the last time YOU performed a full 360° turn in a commercial transport flight?

As I've explained (might have been in that older post I mentioned) a simple 360, when told to do one by ATC, is not unusual at all.

They strive to NOT do that, as it's more a sign of their failure, but sometimes factors accumulate, and it just needs to be done as a means of flow management.

ATC can either issue a full holding clearance, which is a bit more formalized....or that simple 360. It depends on the nature of the length and type of delay needed, to get the traffic to "mesh" and space them properly.

Full-blown holding patterns usually are assigned when an arrival delay is more extensive than just five or ten minutes. One full 360° turn, at 25° bank at normal cruise airspeeds takes about 5 minutes.

reply to post by burntheships


And again, and again, and again.....this has been explained, ad infinitum:

Far too many of us have seen the pattern making,
I personally have witnessed a grid on many occasion.

A "grid" is merely the result of multiple airplanes on intersecting courses! The "grid" is the result of several parallel contrails that occur due to the winds at altitude.

For simplicity, picture a conveyor belt. (A "transparent" conveyor belt). Two fixed points, either side of it.....where you paint a line, between those points. You paint one line there (this represents the passage of the airplane, and the contrails it leaves behind). But, the winds aloft act as the "conveyor"....and the contrail then drifts along.

Next, you paint another line, between the first two fixed points (this represents the next airplane, behind the first one....it is following the same route as the first....same route over the ground, that is.....

Now, you have two painted lines, parallel.....because the conveyor "belt" (the wind) has moved.

Next set up another transparent belt, at an intersecting angle to the first on, and repeat, repeat, repeat.
Get it yet??