Geoengineering - caught in the act?

Originally posted by Captain Beyond
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Have you noticed something peculiar as well Iwinder? There will be no chemtrail threads for awhile, and all the disinformation agents seem to disappear from the site for awhile. When another chemtrail thread is posted, they all seem to come out of the woodwork at the same time? Almost like they know each other, or they are part of a group. You won't see some of them for quite a few days, and then, poof, they are all here together? Just an observation mind you. Watch the site closely, and you will see the trend.

I have and I can only agree with your post, these same elements that I can see clearly claim that I cannot see the sky for what it is now versus what it was then...
Regards, Iwinder

Originally posted by Iwinder

Originally posted by Captain Beyond
reply to post by Iwinder

 

Have you noticed something peculiar as well Iwinder? There will be no chemtrail threads for awhile, and all the disinformation agents seem to disappear from the site for awhile. When another chemtrail thread is posted, they all seem to come out of the woodwork at the same time? Almost like they know each other, or they are part of a group. You won't see some of them for quite a few days, and then, poof, they are all here together? Just an observation mind you. Watch the site closely, and you will see the trend.

I have and I can only agree with your post, these same elements that I can see clearly claim that I cannot see the sky for what it is now versus what it was then...
Regards, Iwinder

Here is one of their hang outs where they discuss how to deal with chemtrails
metabunk.org...
metabunk.org...

Debunking People - Guidelines You'll notice that in discussing a topic that is associated with bunk (chemtrails, for example), you keep hearing the same names crop up over and over again as people encourage you to "do some research". These people, who often have somewhat dubious qualifications, are the promoters of bunk. I've always been against the practice of "ad hominem" attacks, where the arguer attempts to negate the truth of a claim by attacking the person making the claim. But that's not what this particular forum is about. It's about two things: A) debunking a person, and B) demonstrating that their argument from authority (not very convincing at best) is actually an argument from false authority.

reply to post by Captain Beyond

Originally posted by Captain Beyond
reply to post by Curious and Concerned

 

But when I see dozens of lines dispersing into almost complete coverage of the sky, those are not contrails. I am far from being ignorant on this subject as well.

Yet you refuse to answer the question, do you deny that a contrail can persist in the atmosphere in the right conditions?

This will determine if you're ready to deny ignorance and accept that the links you presented as containing "factual information" actually contained misleading/false information.

You're welcome to your opinion, even if it is wrong.

Thank you for your input. However if you're going to accuse me of being wrong, please show me where I have done so, as I have done for you. I can assure you that I will respond to your claims instead of skirting around the issue and making baseless assumptions about your character.

And the spraying is always before a major weather change, or front. I have made a mental note of it, and the weather forecast for that day.

You claim that you are not ignorant on the subject of contrail formation, yet you seem to be oblivious to the reason for this "spraying" to occur before bad weather. It is well known that contrail formation is especially likely to form when conditions are ideal for natural cirrus cloud formation. And these conditions often exist before an approaching storm or frontal system (much like in the OP's case).

Although both cirrus and cirrostratus tend to develop in fine weather conditions, they also acts as a sign of approaching changes in the weather conditions. Such changes could include any of the various types of cold front situations, thunderstorms or developing and advancing troughs of low pressure, normally with preceding cloud masses.

Pilotfriend - Meteorology

And yes, I will continue to keep the disinformation agents in check. The original OP did a heck of a job presenting this issue, and is to be commended. If a plane flew over your house, and sprayed it, you would still
contend it was something else.

I commended the OP poster for their thread already. My I ask that you stick to the topic and what I have posted, as you don't have a clue what I would do in your hypothetical situation. Your obfuscation and assumptions do nothing more than gain stars from those who already have their mind made up. I am open to any factual information you or anyone else present and will respond to it in kind. So are you ready to answer the question?

reply to post by burntheships


And that has nothing to do with the 190 signatories who all agreed to NOT carry out geoengineering until more is known about the repercussions.

Why the deflection?

Thanks for the pics! Really beautiful!!

reply to post by pianopraze

Originally posted by pianopraze
It's fairly easy... they flew over in directions that there are no flights on the radar... even phage acknowledge this.

I am aware that Phage acknowledged that one of the flights may be unaccounted for. But I think there is a fundamental flaw in this reasoning. I think you are underestimating the distance an airliner would travel during the time you were taking photos.

Using a cruising speed of 850 km/h (lower than most modern airliners cruising speed), over 20 minutes an aircraft will cover roughly 850*20/60=283km

I used google earth to approximate the distance from your position to the edge of the flightaware radar image you presented.



Even if you take other factors into account, such as planes flying into a headwind, wind speed vs ground speed etc, even an 8 min time delay, it is clear that a plane above your position flying East or South will be well outside the radar image after 20 minutes. I think this opens up the possibility of some of the other planes on the radar being potential candidates for the observed contrails that had previously been ruled out, as well as some of the planes that may be gone from the radar completely.

I have to shoot off to work now, so can't examine more of your pics on detail, to assess things such as contrail direction and potential planes. But I will pop in later to see how things progress.

As I said, I commend you for your post. It looks like you would have some great artsy photos. Keep it up

sigh , why must people deny and deny and deny that this tales place and has been taking place for 50 plus years ...I could show you people paperwork signed by the President saying this was taking place and you would still debunk it .I have lived in the Ozarks and spent many summers on the lake , everyone i know now and growing up has stories of massive chem trails being made and grids being formed in the skies and then very quickly huge storms being produced .Now i know de bunkers are gonna attack me and call me a lier and on and on but the truth is i have no reason to lie and in the end you are gonna attack the truth no matter what..ITS HAPPENING accept it or dont but im not gonna waste any more breath trying to get people to accept a truth that is right infront of there face .. www.nolanchart.com... he-ozarkswhy-ask-whywhy-ask-i.html

Originally posted by Chadwickus
And that has nothing to do with the 190 signatories who all agreed to NOT carry out geoengineering until more is known about the repercussions.
Why the deflection?

There is no deflection. :shk:
Not on my part.

Why do you ignore the whole Wiki page that you used, aside from your
cherry picked snippet ? Clearly the page states that there are many legal
avenues in which to continue weather modification!

From your links

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by burntheships

They better tell the 190 signatories who agreed to ban geoengineering 16 months ago then...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I am sure the thought of public opinion circumvention is distrurbing to many,
hence the refernces by the U.S. Congress to the concept of Moral Hazard...
however I quoted from Wikipedia and the links you used... directly concening the powers
of the POTUS. Fact is that since the 2001 9/11 attack we have been under a constant
state of emergency...Wikipedia, the links you used... referenced this on the same page.

"prohibiting military use of environmental modification techniques"

The "National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive" of 2007, in which "The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government" (powers of legislative and judiciary branches aside) during any sort of catastrophic emergency in the USA.
en.wikipedia.org...

190 signatories vs The Patriot Act

reply to post by essanance


When I was young and dumb I thought chemtrails were used to stop rainfall, since the ones I saw preceded a cold front moving in, the anecdotal evidence I had at the time suggested it.

Then I went and learnt about it more (In a library!) and discovered that contrails will form in front of cold fronts, not because someone is spraying to make/stop rain, it's because the atmospheric conditions have a commonality!

Colder air, humidity etc etc.

A lot of people will use contrails to forecast rain these days and it's a bit more reliable than the old wives tale about when cows lie down, there's rain on the way

But airplanes don't effect our ecosystem...
I tell people this is how it happens all the time, but they think I'm crazy.

Originally posted by Iwinder
Superb job on this thread to the OP and S&F without a doubt one of the best threads regarding Geo engineering I have ever read.

I am firmly planted in the yes they are doing this camp and nothing will change my mind here..
I am hesitant to post to these threads because of the gangs that show up toots sweet and hack everyone to bits for just saying what they saw/ photographed/ think/

I have not always seen eye to eye with Proud Whacker but checking his past history shows him as banned!
I wonder why I ask and also how did he manage to get back on here to keep slinging insults left and right.
Your Photos say it all , nobody is blind here on this board.

I also noticed that about page 4 and for page 5 they did their best to high jack this thread but you stuck to your guns and once more a great big yeah to you there pianopraze.

Regards, Iwinder

edit on 11-3-2012 by Iwinder because: (no reason given)

Thank you.

I'm sick of all the denial and repeating myself, especially to those who don't read my OP or the ten times I've already answered.

These threads always seem to descend rapidly at some point and I'm really not interested in repeating myself a million times and being subjected to all the dirty tricks and pure crap... already been called a liar twice, gets old real fast.

I should have taken picture of the rest of the sky, but those pictures can take several minutes in the dark, the whole thing went from clear to completely covered, these photos only show a small part... and anyone with any sense can see that the following picture was not done by the very few planes on that radar over 10-20 minutes (I watched it happened and photoed several of the planes):


And its not just in front of me its the whole sky! These are just the ones highlighted by the moon that would photograph well quickly.

One extra plane my bottom side. There was an entire fleet that don't show on the radar.

It's sickening the level of denial. All those planes should be on the radar map, it covers half the state of ky and parts of several other states - thats not a small scale. They would not be off the map in 10 minutes. And I could see some of them when I went in that didn't show on the radar.

Well I'm done arguing about it. People can look at the data and make up their own minds.

It is heartening to see there are several in this thread who are doing just that!

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Afterthought

 

So how come it magically moves to the other side of the moon?

edit on 11/3/12 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)

Hi Chad,

By the looks of things the photographer moved quite considerably within this period, and if you can imagine the parallax going on might be quite severe given the position of the moon, clouds, and 'contrails' themselves. One would expect the contrails to move significantly more than the moon, and a bit more than the clouds depending on the altitudes. I think this would be quite hard to gauge without lens data/positioning etc. Only PP could provide that.

Regarding the constant discussion of disinformation agents (and this isn't directed at yourself Chad) ... I find the constant self congratulating and assuming that a nerve has been struck because a few serial posters show up (or don't) quite face palm worthy. It's no more evidence for anything than a skeptic believing their version of reality is correct because no one is arguing, or assuming the people that are are paid loonies. It's lazy thinking IMO, and an excuse half the time to pretend like some posters are Sherlock Holmes taunting Don Moriaty from the side of a wind swept boat peer while he escapes.

It may shock and stun, but 90% of the posters who believe contrails are innocent would be surprised if they were proven wrong and react accordingly. There wouldn't some shadey damage control meeting, or some collapsing of a personal nebula over it. The other 10% are the same as people who refuse not to believe and still probably would think people are wrong.

reply to post by burntheships


I never once linked to that wiki page I'm sorry to say, you're making things up.

I linked to THIS wiki page titled List of parties to the Environmental Modification Convention

reply to post by pianopraze


I just watched a documentary on this at 'Free Documentaries Online' published in December 2011. I had my own odd experience last fall when I rode with a friend on about an hour drive. Tons of linear 'clouds' and planes flying around that morning and I heard Ft. Ripley (along our route) was conducting some sort of demonstration in our area. It was exceptionally unusual to see this much activity, but I 'came down with a cough' I couldn't shake for a good 3-4 weeks starting the next day. I'm not often sick and seldom have a cold, and if anything, it's about a week duration. Directly after this outing, I was coughing, especially nights, like my lungs were flooding and it took a good month to break this (ALMOST went to the doctor, which is rare for me). These weren't normal clouds or contrails, in that we went from blue skies to plane-banded, expanding rows of 'weird white stuff' with some criss-crossing lines. We watched these merge into one mass blocking the sun. It was totally surreal. Was it connected to the cough? No idea, but I finally healed on my own and it was unlike any 'cold' I've had in 50 years. I just watched the documentary "What in the World Are They Spraying?" before visiting this site, and thought others may find its research of interest: www.documentary-log.com...

I'm in rural Minnesota area and am now watching the skies!

Originally posted by ekats
reply to post by pianopraze

 

I just watched a documentary on this at 'Free Documentaries Online' published in December 2011. I had my own odd experience last fall when I rode with a friend on about an hour drive. Tons of linear 'clouds' and planes flying around that morning and I heard Ft. Ripley (along our route) was conducting some sort of demonstration in our area. It was exceptionally unusual to see this much activity, but I 'came down with a cough' I couldn't shake for a good 3-4 weeks starting the next day. I'm not often sick and seldom have a cold, and if anything, it's about a week duration. Directly after this outing, I was coughing, especially nights, like my lungs were flooding and it took a good month to break this (ALMOST went to the doctor, which is rare for me). These weren't normal clouds or contrails, in that we went from blue skies to plane-banded, expanding rows of 'weird white stuff' with some criss-crossing lines. We watched these merge into one mass blocking the sun. It was totally surreal. Was it connected to the cough? No idea, but I finally healed on my own and it was unlike any 'cold' I've had in 50 years. I just watched the documentary "What in the World Are They Spraying?" before visiting this site, and thought others may find its research of interest: www.documentary-log.com...

I'm in rural Minnesota area and am now watching the skies!

I'm honored you made your first post here in my thread. Welcome

I actually got in touch with the chemist off that movie and got him to come to ats and discuss the movie. I also got in touch with the producer and he only would come talk on air.

Here is that thread, though the typical gang got that thread closed it is still good reading for those interested: link.

I even persuaded ats live to have the chemist and the producer on the air. They upset the producer so bad that nef hung up on him to keep civility (the producer did get quite upset when challenged). They then nicely talked with the chemist for a little while longer and I believe suggested they might have him back on though I don't think they have yet.

After they ended that interview they allowed phage and another person to talk unopposed for 30 plus minutes with no balancing opinion.

However, we appear to be slowly making inroads. A couple weeks ago they talked about Burntheships thread about geoengineering and covered it quite evenly with several favorable opinions expressed. link.

Also, geoengineering used to be dumped in skunkworks. We presented a ton of research and lobbied them and now we have this wonderful forum.

Here is the thread where we lobbied them: link

Here is the first post ever in this geoeningeering forum, and its by me as BTS and others suggested I do it. link

This was a team effort and most of the good links and information come from BurnTheShips and MathiasAndrew. My part was much less than theirs. Lots of good, high quality links to hard science in all those threads.

We are slowly changing the face of the discussion from sneering and contempt, to hard science, data, and logic. Threads like this... while not proof, only circumstantial evidence... Linked to these government and academic papers showing they are planning to do it, and the governments long history of human testing, denial, and later admitting make a compelling case.

Thank you ats.

reply to post by Chadwickus

Originally posted by Chadwickus
They better tell the 190 signatories who agreed to ban geoengineering 16 months ago then...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Yes, you did...your quoted post ... your link to Wikipedia

l l l
VVV

Originally posted by Chadwickus
In 1978 a treaty was enforced banning the use of environmental modification techniques by any military or hostile force.

acceded to the treaty.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In which case, that Wiki page you posted has this link: Weather Control

And on that page concerning Weather Control we find the paragraph ...

The "National Security and Homeland Security Presidential Directive" of 2007, in which "The President shall lead the activities of the Federal Government for ensuring constitutional government" (powers of legislative and judiciary branches aside) during any sort of catastrophic emergency in the USA.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by burntheships


I still didn't LINK to it DID I?

I mean there's a link to wikipedia's privacy policy on that page too, I suppose I linked to that as well??

And it still has nothing to do with the 190 odd signatories that I originally pointed out.

This quote was ALL I WAS TALKING ABOUT:

Then, last year 193 signatories agreed to ban geoengineering "until there is an adequate scientific basis on which to justify such activities and appropriate consideration of the associated risks for the environment and biodiversity and associated social, economic and cultural impacts"

Why is it so hard to comprehend for you?

There are TWO (2) separate (different) things here.

The first one, the one you're stuck on is the 1978 treaty banning the military use of weather modification techniques during war, this was due to the US's cloud seeding efforts in Vietnam.

The second one, the one I have been trying to talk about from the very beginning is the one where 193 signatories signed to not carry out geoengineering "until there is an adequate scientific basis on which to justify such activities and appropriate consideration of the associated risks for the environment and biodiversity and associated social, economic and cultural impacts"

GEDDIT?

The military treaty means nothing to this thread....unless you believe there is a war going on in the USA...and well if there is, they're going against the treaty they created.

Now, I've spelt this out for you as simple and as plainly as I could.

If you still don't get it, well...tough.

Originally posted by passit
Maybe I've missed this point already in this thread or others, but has the OP, or anyone else, traced where any non-military airplanes seen making trails in the sky happen to have landed, what airport / field, then discosvered who owns those planes, what companies, and then to find out what those pilots were formally tasked to do?

Weather Modification

www.evergreenaviation.com...

Originally posted by Chadwickus
And that has nothing to do with the 190 signatories who all agreed to NOT carry out geoengineering until more is known about the repercussions.

190? dang we has over 25,000 to release UFO info and and legalize a ltt;e green weed... and we got NADA ZIP ZILCH ZERO

What possible good would 190 do?

reply to post by zorgon


That's 193 countries buddy