Abound Solar (an Obama $400 million federal loan recipient) Lays off 300 Employees

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Kind of irrelevant. The government is not in this to make money. They are in it to develop new useful technology. A nice change of pace, right?

Do you honestly believe that? What kool-aid are you drinking?

In this case the "government" which is "lead" ( a lose term in this case) by the Obamaites right now is most certainly doing this to make money. Their profit is continued power.

They are investing our tax dollars from the treasury (or in this case the printing press) into a project run by their supporters in exchange for campaign donations. It is just simple money laundering. Obama can't raid the treasury directly to support his propaganda machine so he takes the back door.

That is their incentive in hard currency - money they can use to continue to remain in power, which is what they covet the most.

Then there is the double return on investment in "virtual currency" or "buying votes" with the treasury funds because this idea panders to the his radical

Originally posted by TsukiLunar

Kind of irrelevant. The government is not in this to make money. They are in it to develop new useful technology. A nice change of pace, right?

Do you honestly believe that?

In this case the "government" which is stewarded by the Obamaites right now is most certainly doing this to make money.

They are investing our tax dollars from the treasury (or in this case the printing press) into a project run by their supporters in exchange for campaign donations. It is just simple money laundering. Obama can't raid the treasury directly so he takes the back door.

That is their incentive in hard currency - money they can use to continue to remain in power, which is what they covet the most.

Then there is the double return on investment in virtual currency of buying votes with the treasury funds because this idea panders to his radical environmentalist supporter base. They all drink kool-aid pull the levers and he gets another four years to rape the treasury.

In fairness all politicians regardless of affiliation do this - our country is corrupt, no better than the Banana Republics we so vehemently ridicule.

They all drink-up the (treasury funded) "kool-aid" or propaganda then pull the levers and he gets another four years to rape the treasury. Rinse and repeat.

In fairness all politicians regardless of affiliation do this - our country is corrupt, no better than the Banana Republics we so vehemently ridicule.

We think we are better than those countries because they use violence to achieve power - we use coercion lies, fraud and economic manipulation. I see little difference - except at least in the Banana Republics the politicians are straight forward about being thugs and criminals.

reply to post by jibeho


ezinearticles.com...

That link leads to a a weird independently written article. Normally, that would be fine as long as it had sources.

BUT

www.sjvcleanenergy.org...

It links that website as its source. I crap you not it expects me to search an entire site looking for the sources.

NOW

Can I get a better source from you? "Some dude" aint gonna cut it.

reply to post by Golf66

Do you honestly believe that? What kool-aid are you drinking?

A different kind than you.

You can assert that Obama is laundering money all you want, but don't expect me to buy your made up conspiracy BS.

Get some hard evidence, kid, and then we will talk.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Golf66

 

Do you honestly believe that? What kool-aid are you drinking?

A different kind than you.

That is fairly obvious...

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Golf66

 

You can assert that Obama is laundering money all you want, but don't expect me to buy your made up conspiracy BS. Get some hard evidence, kid, and then we will talk.

What makes a plan like this beautiful is plausable deniability - you can wish for people smart enough and corrupt enough to do this to leave a pile of "evidence" in one hand and take a dump in your other hand and see which one fills up first.

This is a scheme as old and obvious as politics itself.

I did say that all sides do it – it’s nothing unique to Obama and or Democrats in general.

He and his just seem to no longer care it's blatant and obvious any more…

This is due in part to his cult of personality and fanatic followers for whom he can do no wrong as evidenced by your comments.

reply to post by Golf66

This is due in part to his cult of personality and fanatic followers for whom he can do no wrong as evidenced by your comments.

Haha, so no actual evidence? Instead you throw up some conspiracy theory and mock me for not believing in it on faith. Well, okay.

"Ha ha look at me I am an idiot for not taking everything I read from comments on conspiracy sites as fact durp derp."

Yes, my position of wanting facts and evidence to back up very serious allegations is wrong. And your position of making up BS is right. Well played

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by jibeho

 

ezinearticles.com...

That link leads to a a weird independently written article. Normally, that would be fine as long as it had sources.

BUT

www.sjvcleanenergy.org...

It links that website as its source. I crap you not it expects me to search an entire site looking for the sources.

NOW

Can I get a better source from you? "Some dude" aint gonna cut it.

Gimme a break!!
Don't like the information? Attack the source. Good job. You clearly have no concept of the rare earth market and the green industry that depends on it. Read a little instead of relying on others to post the information you want to see or believe. It's an easy process.

I would imagine that many writers probably sourced this.

Two months later, when the export ban was lifted, the price of
cerium soared from approximately $5 per kilogram before the ban
to $67 per kilogram after the ban. The price of neodymium went
from $42 per kilogram in April 2010 to $142 per kilogram 3 months
after the ban. Then, the price of dysprosium nearly doubled from
$250 per kilogram to $400 per kilogram in January 2011.
Today’s hearing about rare earth minerals is both timely and important
given the role that these elements play in America’s manufacturing
and defense industrial base. Rare earths are vital in a variety
of manufactured goods, such as fluorescent lights, hybrid engines,
wind turbines, cell phones, and neodymium iron boron permanent
magnets used in defense systems.
China’s actions against Japan fundamentally transformed the
rare earths market for the worse. As a result, manufacturers can
no longer expect a steady supply of these elements, and the pricing
uncertainty created by this action threatens tens of thousands of
American jobs.

For America’s defense industry, a total reliance on China for rare
earths represents a serious weakness for national security. China
currently controls 97 percent of the world’s rare earth production,
including all stages of the supply chain for permanent magnets.

Here's my favorite.

Thus, American manufacturers are locked into a no-win scenario
where the world’s sole supplier of rare earths is tightly controlling
global supply. In fact, domestic Chinese demand is projected to consume
nearly all the rare earth minerals that country produces,
leaving nothing for export markets.

84 pages all for you. You're welcome
foreignaffairs.house.gov...

P.S. You'll have to pester congress to see if their sources meet your standards.

reply to post by jibeho

Gimme a break!! Don't like the information? Attack the source. Good job. You clearly have no concept of the rare earth market and the green industry that depends on it. Read a little instead of relying on others to post the information you want to see or believe. It's an easy process.

That's a weird way to apologize for making me shift through a website on a wild goose chase. But Apology accepted. Next time, post links that are traceable to a factual source. And for god sakes man, dont expect people to waste time arguing against your obscure unsourced claims.

Hey, you just learned something new. You know what they say? Knowing is half the battle or something.

I would imagine that many writers probably sourced this.

Ah yes, 84 pages you say? We will give this a read.... someday.

In the mean time... Your source seems legit.

However,

It still does nothing to negate the fact that in 2011 solar panels became 50% cheaper, despite China. None of this in any way negates the fact that the loans HAVE been working. They ARE getting there.

Hell, if you have the cash to blow right now you can get a system set up, I am sure.

Obamas green agenda is akin to "freedom fighters" we have all seen on the news with their ak-47s who just spray and pray and hope they hit something.

The difference is they are wasting our money our tax dollars hence the "green" of it throwing good money after bad money and rinse and repeat.

Fisker failure
Volt failure

Green corporations which liberals defend vociferously is nothing but crony capitalism which they decry so often.

Yep saving the planet sure the hell isn't saving your wallets the plan to make gas so expensive to make "green" look cheap. Obama says gas prices will go down because less people will be using it.

News flash has tobacco prices gone down? No they have increased and continue to increase because "less people are using ".

Idiots.

Fail to see how people profit from green tech or cars the cost is over 50 grand whereas the cost to fill up for a year is less than 3k.

Only a moron would believe that tripe as well as other green tech actually the only people who profit are banks and corporations.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


Okay, for a minute let's imagine government investment in alternative energy, in this case solar, is a wonderful idea. (Wait...... Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit). Why do you think this administration keeps choosing to invest in turds? Please don't tell me you're alright with that!

The House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform asked Energy Secretary Steven Chu to explain how the solar panel manufacturer [Abound] had qualified for the loan after the ratings firm Fitch had determined the company would make a "highly speculative" investment.

abcnews.go.com...-t5ll0

Now, I completely agree that there needs to be a movement toward other renewable energy sources, i.e. wind and solar. But, (and this is a huge but) the government needs to stay out of it. I don't care who is in the oval office, they're going to screw it up with cronyism.

reply to post by TsukiLunar

It still does nothing to negate the fact that in 2011 solar panels became 50% cheaper, despite China. None of this in any way negates the fact that the loans HAVE been working. They ARE getting there.

Prices dropped because of China. China has something that we don't and should never have. $34 billion in loans available from the China Development Bank. It's called predatory financing and they are using it to eliminate foreign competition. Tough to compete with FREE Money. We've tried with several businesses and have failed.

All we will ever be is a supplier of raw materials to China as we turn around and by back the finished product.

Tariffs, Tariffs Tariffs

Greetings,

I don't know how to break this to you all. IT"S WORSE THAN YOU KNOW. MUCH WORSE.

Solar panel tech is obsolete. There is technology that the government and predatory capitalists hijacked for security reasons..
The gov has confiscated free energy tech for the past 50 years or more.
To make it look like they are doing something the DOE has these various, meaningless programs to make it look like they are doing something. They're not. It's a ruse.
The reason I know about this is because for the past 30+ i have tried to sell and promote high eff insulation. NO, not foam, cellulose or fiber glass. The government has actively made sure that these less eff materials are used, because you use up to 50% more energy and that energy is taxed.
And while on the subject our auto gas bills could be $.50 cheaper/gallon if the government banned speculative trading. But we know they won't, don't we.
Sorry folks, I no longer salute the flag because it isn't ours anymore.

If you would like to see the technologies that are trying to make it to market check: peswiki.com

According to T. Jefferson's rule of thumb, we are way over due for a revolution.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
I dont know what you guys are so mad about. We are going to have to spend money investing in renewable energy at some point. Not too mention in the long run this will probably end up saving a lot of money.

People just aren't buying the technology. They just don't see the need and do not want to deal with the upkeep.

There is also the fact of cost of production as well. To sell people the technology it needs to be reasonably priced. Well... that can get a bit tricky.

All in all, an endeavor like this cannot be expected to succeed automatically and in fact failures absolutely should be expected.

Rather, isnt it a bit odd that people on ATS complain when the government invest in something that has actual honest value to the world at large?

I think you are absolutely wrong, but thats my opinion, but I do understand why you said the above. This is my opinion, I certainly could be wrong, but its my opinion and how I feel;

Its not the governments place to 'Invest' in private companies with other peoples money. Thats why we have a free market capitalist society, the market decides who lives and who dies, and what is worth investing in.. The reason these companies are failing and have no private investment is because the output does not exceed the cost.

I understand what you mean, that these companies need investment, to further research and improvement on green technology and renewable energy, by WTF should I have to pay for it?

The government is NOT 'giving' these companies their money, they are giving these companies MY money that they siphon from my income and hard work, to line the pockets of some a'hole driving around in a mercedes.