Abound Solar (an Obama $400 million federal loan recipient) Lays off 300 Employees

Originally posted by ltinycdancerg
reply to post by xuenchen

 

I'm sure there are plenty of articles on that issue-
BUT,
I know more about Abound's situation than ANY news company or journalist does.

I CAN PROMISE YOU THAT.

Let's just say,
this hits close to home.

I rarely take somebody's word for it.

But in your case, I think you are on the up and up here.



I will snoop around and dig some more info up.

thanks for sharing.

reply to post by WTFover

I am baffled as why you believe the taxpayers are the one's who have to pay for this. For one thing, when or if this technology becomes a viable source of energy, private investors will be tripping over each other to get a piece of the pie. Secondly, rather than the taxpayer, those who will profit from the final product are the one's who should be taking the risks.

But the taxpayers will profit from the final product. At least that's the plan.

Investors dont want to invest. They just do not have the funds required to play trail and error with technology that the masses have only shown vague interest in.

On the other hand, a nation does have the funds required to perfect and "popularize" the tech. And, in fact, the "smart" investors are probably waiting for that exact thing to happen.

Saving who a lot of money?

I am surprised you cannot see this. It saves YOU personally money(eventually, of course). Once the tech is perfected and it is cheap enough go and buy one. Now, watch it pay for itself and more. Power houses, power cars(of course, you will have to buy a car that runs on solar power), power anything you want. Completely free except for the cost of YOUR taxes and a one time buying cost.

In a year you have probably saved $1000 on your electric bill alone. Not to mention gas.

I don't want virtually free energy through the vehicle of government.

Okay...? Free energy is free energy no matter who developed the tech(which BTW is developed by private companies with government funding). But if you feel that strongly about it then I guess you can continue with you indignation undisturbed and unchallenged.

Have a nice day!

reply to post by TsukiLunar


It's all a pie in the sky scam.

Like a chain letter from Heaven.

You are forgetting the international oil companies are running the energy show.

Beat them, and maybe this has a chance.

If you like paying the bill, "more power to ya" (that's a joke !)

reply to post by xuenchen

You are forgetting the international oil companies are running the energy show.

Are you forgetting why they are running the show? Because there is really no alternative.

This gives us the tools to(drum roll please):

Beat them

"more power to ya" (that's a joke !)

lol

reply to post by TsukiLunar


There are a way too many ifs in your scenario, even if you choose to follow the path of mother government.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather just keep my tax money. I think I'd have about as good a chance to "save money" by hanging it on a clothesline, out in the sun and the wind, hoping it will multiply.

Besides, how many government "alternative energy" investment boondoggles will you decide is too many?

ETA: I am glad to see, this time, you used the phrase "free, except". That's the clincher. Free ain't ever free, where the government is involved.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
Okay...? Free energy is free energy no matter who developed the tech(which BTW is developed by private companies with government funding).

That's like saying free stuff is free stuff even if I did steal it from Wal-Mart, and then gave it to you. You're benefitting from my theft does not undo the fact that it was stolen. It's neither free nor qualitative. If the government can do it, so can the taxpayers. There's no reason why it shouldn't come from the market, and if it does, that means there's a demand for it, and there was no demand for the services/products in the OP's story.

And private companies given federal funds is called corporatism, which makes them an arm of the state, and also protected from competition by those who can supply a superior product/service, and cheaper.

reply to post by WTFover

There are a way too many ifs in your scenario, even if you choose to follow the path of mother government.

Not really. Its very unlikely that nothing at all will come from it. Especially with government backing.

Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather just keep my tax money. I think I'd have about as good a chance to "save money" by hanging it on a clothesline, out in the sun and the wind, hoping it will multiply.

And I guess its your right to think like that, Mr. Negativity you.

I will say, however, that owning(and making use of) solar panels WILL save you money(overtime, of course). That is just fact.

Besides, how many government "alternative energy" investment boondoggles will you decide is too many?

I don't know. You and me personally are only investing a small amount of taxes into this. So minuscule is our personal contribution to this that the amount of money we invest could disappear out of our pockets and we probably would never even notice.

reply to post by WTFover

ETA: I am glad to see, this time, you used the phrase "free, except". That's the clincher. Free ain't ever free, where the government is involved.

Of course you have to pay for the panel... its a private company. And its a LOAN the government is handing out.

reply to post by imherejusttoread

That's like saying free stuff is free stuff even if I did steal it from Wal-Mart, and then gave it to you. You're benefitting from my theft does not undo the fact that it was stolen. It's neither free nor qualitative.

I assume you mean "stealing" as in you have to pay taxes? Well, if you dont want to pay taxes I suggest you move some place that does not require you to pay taxes.

If the government can do it, so can the taxpayers.

The taxpayers are doing it.

There's no reason why it shouldn't come from the market, and if it does, that means there's a demand for it, and there was no demand for the services/products in the OP's story.

Its a private company operating on a loan. It IS the "free market" making solar energy.

And private companies given federal funds is called corporatism, which makes them an arm of the state, and also protected from competition by those who can supply a superior product/service, and cheaper.

Kind of irrelevant. The government is not in this to make money. They are in it to develop new useful technology. A nice change of pace, right?

reply to post by TsukiLunar


You must remember.

When Solyndra and others went out of business,
"WE" never got the money back.

But somebody kept it (stole it).

The USA is busted out.

Not even this "free" energy will help.

Can each person afford to pay the national debt ?

It's right around $50,000 per person right now.

Will solar panels do the trick ?

reply to post by xuenchen


I am not really understanding? Is your argument that it isn't worth the pursuit since it wont pay off all our national debt?

On a side note I would like to point out that the government has to pay for power too (And they use a LOT of it) and increased use of free solar energy will only free up funds for other uses.

reply to post by TsukiLunar


The whole point is the corruption.

Get the psychopath vermin out, and the concept might have merit.

The corruption and thievery will never allow any progress for the public.
(or the technology either)

If any (honest) big business concerns had any faith in this right now,
they would be jumping through hoops to get in on the profits.

Big business invented and nurtured the microprocessor decades ago.
All by themselves.

Not many people were all that opposed to eliminating the vacuum tube back then.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by xuenchen

 

I am not really understanding? Is your argument that it isn't worth the pursuit since it wont pay off all our national debt?

On a side note I would like to point out that the government has to pay for power too (And they use a LOT of it) and increased use of free solar energy will only free up funds for other uses.

edit on 10-3-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

The "Government" doesn't pay for power.

"WE" do through taxes.

But the international oil companies run the show, not the "Government".

All they tell you is:

"Take a number and have a seat over there please"

Anyone see a problem with the amount of money being poured into this green energy strainer that yields no results.

These companies are unable to compete with a big competitor. The common denominator across the board with all of these companies ie. Solyndra etc. is CHINA. In order to even attempt to compete they are forced to sell BELOW COST. All of the handouts in the world won't help any company in the long run unless the Circumstances change

he chief executive officer of Abound Solar says Chinese solar technology companies selling products below cost are hurting operations in Indiana and Colorado. Craig Witsoe says Asian companies are driving down prices to the point that American businesses can't compete. Despite recent layoffs in Colorado, Witsoe says Abound Solar is still committed to expanding operations in Tipton, and hopes to do so by late 2013.

Deal with China in a manner that will allow US companies to compete!!

Witsoe says some lawmakers are in favor of imposing tariffs on Chinese solar products. He says if that happens, competition will become level and the company could add employees sooner.

www.insideindianabusiness.com...

How long can we keep finger pointing at China before we take some swift action to stop the bleeding in the U.S.?
McFly!!!! Helllooo!!

China owns us so don't expect any earth shattering legislation in the future. Furthermore, China has no problems slapping Tariffs on US goods. No problems at all. Gotta balance out the trade deficit with China First BEFORE we started handing out money. Create success rather than waste money and set up companies for failure. These circumstances are not new to anyone in the industry and were fully known before all of the loans went out. Hence the common denominator tying all of these failures together!! Don't need a Masters degree in economics or finance to figure that out.

reply to post by jibeho


Hey, how ya doing! Hey listen, bit of a problem with your argument.

Deal with China in a manner that will allow US companies to compete!!

www.bloomberg.com...

Renewable energy investment rose 5 percent to a record $260 billion last year driven by a surge in solar developments and increased spending in the U.S., Bloomberg New Energy Finance said.

A jump in photovoltaic installations in the U.S. and Europe overcame a 50 percent decline the price of modules during 2011, said Michael Liebreich, chief executive of New Energy Finance. Falling prices made more developments possible and is bringing closer the date when wind and solar can rival fossil fuels without subsidies, he said.

That's right. Due to the investments solar panels in 2011 became 50% cheaper. And we are well on way to overtaking china, never mind competing.

People are working hard to make their products cheaper so YOU will purchase them. And they do succeed.

reply to post by butcherguy

Just for truth. Facts, you know, count.

Yah, yah, I get it. Liberals are ruining the country, democrats are socialist pigs, they should classify "being on the left" as terminal disease and euthanize all offenders. Boooooooooring.


So, how do you feel about this? Being a nice well mannered(and might i say dashing) conservative such as yourself, surely you have something thought provoking to add?

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by jibeho

 

Hey, how ya doing! Hey listen, bit of a problem with your argument.

Deal with China in a manner that will allow US companies to compete!!

www.bloomberg.com...

Renewable energy investment rose 5 percent to a record $260 billion last year driven by a surge in solar developments and increased spending in the U.S., Bloomberg New Energy Finance said.

A jump in photovoltaic installations in the U.S. and Europe overcame a 50 percent decline the price of modules during 2011, said Michael Liebreich, chief executive of New Energy Finance. Falling prices made more developments possible and is bringing closer the date when wind and solar can rival fossil fuels without subsidies, he said.

That's right. Due to the investments solar panels in 2011 became 50% cheaper. And we are well on way to overtaking china, never mind competing.


People are working hard to make their products cheaper so YOU will purchase them. And they do succeed.

edit on 10-3-2012 by TsukiLunar because: (no reason given)

Do those investment numbers reflect the infusion of Govt. cash into the Solar market? Why can't the companies compete against China. Why continue to sell below cost? Better yet why dump TAXPAYER money into this market of uncertainty? How about NO TAXPAYER money at all. Let the open markets figure it out. If its so viable they will continue to invest without the need for my money.

I'll believe it all when I see it.

One of the problems right now is the fact that China dominates the rare earth supply in the world right now. That simple fact will ensure their position at the top of the heap.

While we've been busy dealing with bailouts and stifling green energy regulations, China has been busy hoarding the flippin market.

Much of the clean energy industry depends upon extremely obscure elements that have come to be known as rare earth. They have names like lanthanum, cerium, yttrium and neodymium and are used in the manufacture of electric car batteries, wind turbines and solar panels. China has spent the past several years locking up supply of these elements, planning ahead and banking on their value escalating.

And the stakes are high. The recent study, "Energy Policy," by Stanford University professors Mark Delucchi and Mark Jacobson says wind, water and solar could supply all of our energy needs in 20 to 40 years. While that may be unlikely given today's energy mix, the sector is sure to increase despite the domination of increasingly costly and damaging fossil fuels.

Rare earth elements, while relatively abundant in the Earth's crust, are hard to find in "minable concentrations," as the U.S. Geological Survey explains in its 2010 rare earth report. Thus the problem -- and the name.

China, according to USGS, has reserves of 55 million metric tons, while the United States has 19 million metric tons. Both countries dominate known reserves. However, China is better positioned to take advantage of its mines.

"China accounts for 97 percent of the worldwide rare earth metal production and the country's new export quotas have caused prices to skyrocket," write Euan Sadden and Kerry-Ann Adamson of Boulder, Colo.-based Pike Research in the May 2011 report "Rare Earth Metals in the Cleantech Industry."

Article Source: EzineArticles.com...

We are a day late and dollar short to this party. Thank the choke hold of the EPA for that.


ETA
Tariffs would work also!! Gotta balance the trade deficit.

reply to post by xuenchen

If any (honest) big business concerns had any faith in this right now,
they would be jumping through hoops to get in on the profits.

Businesses DO have faith(that's why they are making them). Solar energy IS selling. Just not as much as we would like. BUT, that can remedied given time, money and an interest sparked in the technology. Not a huge major one. Just more than there is now.

Just some back of the napkin figures..

400 million divided by 300 employees= $1.33 million per...

figure $50,000 per year per employee= 26.6 years of employment.

Just something to think about since $400 million "isn't a lot" (paraphrasing another poster)