1999 Columbine Massacre Revisited

reply to post by strangedays

I have no doubt in years to come we will find out that most of these shooters (loughner, columbine, cho) were primed by certain peoples to commit the crimes they did, with the intention of the people puppetting them to be to get away clean

If they thought they were going to get away with these then why would the two at Columbine and Cho kill themselves?

Have you ever taken into concept that some people are actually messed up in the head and do commit these tragedies?

reply to post by caf1550


In a world of poisoned food and water,election fraud,mind control experiment's and mitt romney its kinda hard to believe. Who knows wtf is true or not anymore anything can be possible.

Originally posted by starviego
Over 40 eyewitnesses identified other shooters by name. And they were all mistaken? I don't think so.....

No.They identified people because of rumors,nothing more.At the time a lot came out about the culture of the school.It was well known there were many "cliques". Go back and read.I just can't understand how anyone can see a conspiracy here.At most,the police covered up their mistakes because they screwed up in their response.
Do you really think if there was REAL evidence of more shooters the police would let them go?No,they wouldn't.Anyone and everyone who was accused of being a shooter was investigated and cleared.

reply to post by vaelamin


Yea because saying these kids were messed up in the head is to easy isn't it.

I love a good conspiracy theory but sadly not everything is.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
They identified people because of rumors, nothing more.

Black is white, and white is black. Eyewitnesses are not 'rumors.' As already posted:

Originally posted by revolutionphase1

"Chris Wisher, sophomore (9832) "....he recognized one of the shooters--the other shooter was the kid wearing black that was arrested and placed in cuffs and put inside a black police car. He said that he is 100% positive that he was the male that shot at him." "Thought he recognized Chris Morris as being one of the shooters.... ...on the west side of the cafeteria."(EP6-265)"

"Ashley Egelund, freshman (22671) "Ashley was in north corridor when she observed (Redacted) and Eric Harris coming around the corner from the library.... She said Chris Morris was armed with a handgun while Harris was armed with a shotgun.(5248 ) ....both started shooting at Ashley.... Ashley did not know (Redacted) at first but she saw his picture in the yearbook and is positive it was (Redacted)."

And there are dozens more like it if you'd bother to check out the links.

Originally posted by nightstalker78
Do you really think if there was REAL evidence of more shooters the police would let them go? No,they wouldn't.

Yeah, just like they rounded up all the bad guys in Dealey Plaza. Uh huh....

www.youtube.com...

A video possibly suggesting a 3rd shooter.

www.apfn.org...

Rumors, eye-witness testimony, official statements, and some evidence suggests other gunmen were involved. However, since ballistics reports from the Colorado Bureau of Investigation find no evidence of other shooters, the issue has become a moot point for the sheriff's office and the news media.

news.google.com...,4336061

Milwaukee journal sentinel press clipping ^^

evanlong.net...

“We saw three guys with guns
and then we saw a really tall guy
in a black trench coat.”

On May 6, 1999, then-CHS student Ashley Egeland gave the following statement: “I, Ashley Egeland, recognized Eric Harris and [redacted] in the hall while I was by the gymnasium shooting at me and other people.”

In the government reports, wherever a witness identifies someone besides Harris or Klebold by name as having been an attacker, the name has been redacted in accordance with State of Colorado law. In a few places, however, a name which was required to have been redacted has been left visible.

After Egeland described the redacted-name shooter as having been a “[w]hite male, about 5′ 8″ tall (described as the “same size as me (Ashley)”),” “with a “scrawny body” and glasses,” “reading glasses (non-descript) and not sunglasses,” “[and d]ark brown hair “below the ears and curled at the back,” the redacted name appears several more times in the text that follows.

On a following page of the report, a map of the school grounds is shown bearing captions indicating the positions of people and places relevant to Ashley’s testimony. Caption number one, which refers to the place where Ashley saw the shooters, is labeled, “Harris[.] Morris[.]” In her report, Ashley described this person as “shooting at [her] and other people” “about the same number of times as Eric Harris”.

This is a photo of CHS class of ’99 Chris Morris, a friend of Eric Harris, being taken into police custody on the afternoon of the attack.

more

Investigator PJ Doyle wrote on page 4,083 that then-student Katelyn Place “saw a person coming down the stairs on the outside. He was shooting a rifle. He was tall and [...] [h]e had a long shaped face. He was wearing a trench coat. Kate said, “It was [redacted]. I’m almost positive of it. I remember looking him dead in the eye. He was in my debate class for a little bit either the end of the last semester or the beginning of this one.” “She then stated that she recognized him as [redacted] [...]. Kate said that, “Dylan kind of looks like [redacted], but Dylan doesn’t have the long face. [redacted] teeth are messed up and he was smiling and I saw his teeth then.” Kate said that she has since seen pictures of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and she said, “It’s not one of them.”

reply to post by starviego


"Yeah, just like they rounded up all the bad guys in Dealey Plaza. Uh huh.... "

Wait,so you're saying there's a massive government conspiracy involved with Columbine? Uh yeah,okay.

You're entitled to believe whatever you want,no matter how ridiculous it is.I suppose some people see a conspiracy in everything.There would be no need for it at Columbine.And if you believe it then nothing I say will change that.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

--

To quote another member:

--Why did numerous ear-witnesses say at least one attacker was firing a fully-automatic weapon?

--Why did police concentrate on setting up a perimeter at the same time dispatch(via phone) is hearing the sound of gunshots within the school?

--Why did it take police so long to enter the school, and why did it take almost three hours for them to reach the library, the area where the shooters were last seen? Who gave the orders not to go in?

--Why did over 100 eye- and ear- witnesses dispute the official theory of only two shooters? Why did over 40 of those witnesses identify other participants BY NAME?

--If the two shooters committed suicide shortly after noon, as police claim, how come at least 35 witnesses saw or heard suspects/gunshots/explosions after that time?

--Why are there conflicting eyewitness accounts on the place and manner in which at least four of the dead victims were killed? Were victims being moved around? Was the crime scene being rearranged?

--Why did investigators ignore dozens of other promising leads that led to evidence of a wider conspiracy?

--If left-handed Klebold shot himself in the left temple, why was his suicide weapon found clutched in his right hand?

--How did students manage to keep seriously wounded teacher Dave Sanders alive for more than three hours while awaiting rescue, yet he was dead within 20 minutes of the police taking control of him? His corpse was later found with his shirt off. Is that first-aid? Or a sure-fire way of sending someone into shock?

--What was the motive? Why would two teens who were not bullied, did not hate everyone, and were not psychopathic suddenly decide to destroy the lives of a dozen fellow students and themselves just six weeks before graduation?

--Why would Harris and Klebold plan for a suicide mission and at the same time make normal plans for a post 4-20 future? Like seeking help on an English class essay from a teacher a few days before the attack, like making a date to see a movie the day after, like putting in a work schedule for the next week, like going to an out-of-town college with your dad to pick out a dorm room, like making plans to visit your old friends in New York.

--Where is the gun shot residue(GSR) test evidence for Harris and Klebold and the other suspects?

--Why was fingerprint evidence for Harris and Klebold not found on all but two of the hundreds of obects gathered at the scene? Whose fingerprints, if any, were found on the weapons seized?

--Why does the official story claim, without a shred of evidence, that it was Harris and Klebold that set the South Wadsworth diversionary bomb (an incendiary device that exploded a couple of miles away from the school at the same time the shooting started)?

--Why did authorities claim the two shotguns seized had no serial numbers when later documents clearly show they did have serial numbers? Why did they not try to find out who sold Harris and Klebold the Hi-Point 9mm rifle and the pump-action shotgun that were used in the shooting?

--Were the school administrators warned, as rumored? Who was Principle Frank DeAngelis looking for, as reported by one student who saw him running up and down the interior cafeteria stairs right before the shooting broke out?

--Why did a science teacher tell his students that they had been expecting a fire drill? Was a bomb found in a trash can on 4-19, as one source indicated? Were bomb threats phoned into the school on the morning of 4-20, as two others claimed?

--Why didn't the Final Report conclude that shooters entered Science rooms 1 and 8, when numerous shell casings were taken from these areas?

--Why didn't the Final Report mention the brief exit of a shooter on the east side, according to many eyewitnesses?

--If the person seen on the roof of the school was a repairman, as police claim, why do witnesses say he was holding a weapon? Were shell casings found there, as some said?

--Who scheduled 'crisis training' drills at Columbine High Schol(CHS) in the weeks before and what was the exact nature of this training?

--What was a Denver police officer and a JeffCo sheriff doing at CHS that morning before the shooting started?

--What does reputed video evidence from the library and admin office areas show? Why does local media refuse to release on-scene video footage from the first half-hour of the incident?

--What happened to all the evidence taken from the computers of the trenchcoat mafia gang?

--Where are dozens of missing interviews of students, especially those in the science hall? Why are there still thousands of pages of investgatory materials that have never been made public, including hundreds of reports of non-Columbine witnesses and tipsters?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

another thread ^

--

Also:

evanlong.net...

Links to 30K+ pages of government documents related to the April 20, 1999 attack on Columbine High School have been posted to the internet.

Originally posted by mr-lizard

Investigator PJ Doyle wrote on page 4,083 that then-student Katelyn Place “saw a person coming down the stairs on the outside. He was shooting a rifle. He was tall and [...] [h]e had a long shaped face. He was wearing a trench coat. Kate said, “It was [redacted]. I’m almost positive of it. I remember looking him dead in the eye. He was in my debate class for a little bit either the end of the last semester or the beginning of this one.” “She then stated that she recognized him as [redacted] [...]. Kate said that, “Dylan kind of looks like [redacted], but Dylan doesn’t have the long face. [redacted] teeth are messed up and he was smiling and I saw his teeth then.” Kate said that she has since seen pictures of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and she said, “It’s not one of them.”

Here's the most unredacted version of that:

Katelyn Sue Place, freshman (EP21-285)
Kate said, "It was (Redacted). I'm almost positive of it. I remember looking him dead in the eye. He was in my debate class..... . ...Dylan kind of looked like Robert, but Dylan doesn't have the long face. Robert's teeth are messed up and he was smiling and I saw his teeth then. Kate said that she has since seen pictures of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and she said, "It's not one of them."(Referring to the person she saw shooting out on the outside commons.)
"She remembers him shooting Ann Marie(Hochalter). .... Robert was just randomly shooting. ...Robert was still shooting. ....Kate said that Robert shot Ann Marie before he smiled at Kate. ....She looked and saw Jason(Autenrieth) trying to help Ann Marie, dragging her away from Robert, to the side."

Funny how all those eyewitnesses(or, as I like to call them, 'the people that were actually there and saw and heard what happened,') made all those ridiculously ridiculous statements.

and one more:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

DPD dispatch log(9219)
"Male called from Canada and was talking with female student at Columbine and she told him there are 4 suspects not 2 but no further information."

John Spahlinger(1176)
Clement Park maintenance worker, "a majority of the students Spahlinger helped informed him there had been a trench coat mafia gang shooting over at the high school and that there were 4 shooters involved." Follow-up interview says "Spahlinger stated he had no further info to report and that he did not know where someone got that he had(sic) witnessed 5 individuals exit a black vehicle while working in the park."

Camille Campbell(7446)
Denies having CHS friends who told her about 4 shooters, 2 of whom discarded their trenchcoats and fled into the crowd.

Thornton/NorthglennPD SWAT Team, EP 9-34
At 11:35pm on 4-20 the team enters CHS for another search. "We were advised that 2 suspects(shooters) might still be in the school." (2+2=4)

Littleton PO Mike Eyman(8670)
Advised that "there were possibly 4 suspects in the school."

Dustin Gorton(10743)
"He named 2 other individuals he believed to be involved as Nathan Dykeman, Chris Morris." (2+2=4)

(8894)
"Daphne Baca had listed 4 names of possible suspects. Those names included Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Chris Morris, and Robert Perry."

news.google.com...,1471613

www.columbine-wiki.net...

I remember watching the news the day it happened, and the week it happened, everyone mentions manson but the band I heard over and over was linkin park, people tell me 'linkin park didn't exist back then', well, I saw what I saw, and yes they clearly did, I also remember hearing about how the kids made their customized level in doom, to match the school.

about the kid in the white shirt, this is interesting, I can say this, if you are wearing blue jeans and a white shirt, you aren't going to be associated with the kids wearing all black, this is how cops work, I can give an example of this,

I was with my cousins, at the small oregon town where the movie Goonies was shot, my 2 cousins were wearing white tank tops and they had tattoos on their back, I was basically wearing a nerdy hawaiian shirt, but I was with my cousins the whole time. To make a story short, my cousin start wailing on these kids dressed like preppies, the cop drives up on a motorcycle, the cop assumes I'm with the preppies and I was never even talked to, my 2 cousins in the tank tops with 'gang tattoos', get a court date.

Cops would easily be fooled if one of the killers was wearing regular clothes.

www.apfn.net...

Not sure how legit this is:

starviego
Columbine High School Massacre--7 shooters, not 2
Wed Jan 28 19:26:35 2004
205.188.208.101



I have combed through over 20K pages of publicly released documents related to the Columbine High School Massacre of April 20, 1999. Here is what I have learned:

In addition to Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, multiple eyewitnesses also told investigators that they identified trench coat mafia members Robert Perry, Chris Morris, Joe Stair and Brian Sargent as being part of the attacking party(in Perry's case at least 11 and possibly 20 named eyewitnesses). There was one more assailant whose description by eyewitnesses does not fit any of the others: a slightly older man whose darkish hair had blond, spiky tips; aka "the white T-shirted bomber" to Columbine buffs. These IDs were buttressed by others who saw 3 to 6 suspects together at some point during the massacre or immediately beforehand, in addition to others who heard shooting going on in two places simultaneously, when officially the two named patsies-Harris and Klebold-were together virtually the entire time.

One of the trench coat gang-Pat McDuffee-told police that five of the seven named above were indeed inside the school with guns, in addition he named five more trench coaters-Eric Ault, John Beachem, Eric Dutro, Charles Phillips, and Eric Jackson- as being involved in the planning or bomb-building. And at least two of the female trench coat associates-Melissa Sowder and Alejandra Marsh- told other students that they had advance foreknowledge of the attack.

But that wasn't the only thing the media wasn't telling you: there were also a number of similar 'incidents' happening in various high schools around Denver at about the same time(within 24 hours). By which I mean kids being arrested for weapons possession, bomb 'hoaxes', 'copycat' attacks, etc. And the day before the massacre, two trench coaters in Augusta Georgia were arrested before they could carry out their own school attack. The local media there reported that the Georgia teens and the Colorado group were in internet contact before 4-20.

It sounds to me as though this was all supposed to be some sort of covert operation whose purpose was supposed to be new controls on internet access following disclosures that various school attackers were communicating and coordinating attacks via computer(had a number of other attacks not been busted up prematurely by cops).

1) Cyrstal Archuleta(EP1-197)
"...she did see one person throw a pipe bomb. .....She told me at the time she thought it was Robert Perry."


2) Seth Dubois(EP21-125)
"...Seth told Katherine(Carlston) that Robert Perry was seen shooting a girl in the back while leaving the library."


3) Wade Allen Frank(EP1-91)
"Mr. Frank told me that he thought origonally one of the individuals(shooting) was someone by the name of Robert..." "He stated that the person was tall, approximately 6'3" and kind of ackward(sic) and gangly."


4) Bryan Frye(EP25-69)
"He stated that the person he had previously believed this shooter to be was Robert Perry. .....In a previous interview, after receiving his yearbook, he had told his father that he believed the shooter to be Robert Perry. He also stated that the gunman had bad acne."

and so on...

And my own thoughts.

I remember the first reports on the radio and then later on Tv in the UK.

I remember hearing about three or four shooters and reports of bodies being dragged around (possibly to hide bombs), but was surprised when the papers only mentioned two shooters as I do remember a girl eyewitness saying three guys came into school carrying guns.

Odd.

There's a video floating around out there where EMS (?) are dragging a body out of the school by the feet. They drag it down the concrete steps and they let the head bounce down on each one. It was pointed out that you wouldn't do that even with a dead body to remove it from the scene.

dallasgoldbug tried to link Colombine to Trey Parker & Matt Stone as shooter/actors. Problem is they met in college and started the South Park series in 1997. They would have been 30 in 1999.

There's a whole site on Colombine as conspiracy. It makes some interesting arguments but they are probably more demonized than 9/11 seekers of truth. And they also say they have evidence that a group of the kids had made a video in the school one year prior where they acted out a mass shooting.

I don't know. The deeper down you dig for truth, the more you have to be prepared to be shocked by what turns out to be reality. I don't know what happened at Colombine. I do know that there's a lot that doesn't make sense these days and much of what we think we know comes from TV--a proven form of input programming.

Frankly nothing surprises me any more and I've stopped getting bummed out about finding out truth.

Originally posted by caf1550

reply to post by strangedays

I have no doubt in years to come we will find out that most of these shooters (loughner, columbine, cho) were primed by certain peoples to commit the crimes they did, with the intention of the people puppetting them to be to get away clean

If they thought they were going to get away with these then why would the two at Columbine and Cho kill themselves? (EDIT: really? how did you get this from what I wrote lol)

Have you ever taken into concept that some people are actually messed up in the head and do commit these tragedies?



Um maybe you are misreading what i wrote or something? I dont see how because it was pretty simple to follow?

Re read what you quoted.

reply to post by elmoastro


"There's a video floating around out there where EMS (?) are dragging a body out of the school by the feet. They drag it down the concrete steps and they let the head bounce down on each one. It was pointed out that you wouldn't do that even with a dead body to remove it from the scene."

No.Show me the video.There's video of the SWAT team moving Rachel Scott and Richard Castaldo.But neither of them are having their heads "bounce off stairs" as you put it.

I was watching a documentary a few months ago about this and in it family members of some of the school kids involed were outraged at the amount of time it took SWAT to enter the school.

From memory they said the shootings happened around 11-12 in the day, SWAT entered after 1pm and took them to after 3pm to reach the library.

This got me thinking, what if possibly, TPTB wanted the shooting to continue unimpeded for as long as can be, to inflict as many casualties as possible and in so doing, become a huge national tragedy that will never be forgotten.

Using this tragedy and other tragedys where civillians go on the rampage, killing innocents with privately owned firearms, TPTB will eventually use all these events as a pretext to outlaw the 2nd amendment, as having the 2nd amendment they might have resistance from people/civillians who wont toe the line in the future when more controversial policies are brought in. Essentially, limiting the strength of any possible resistance groups later on down the line...

Just thinking out loud here so dont shoot me lol...

Originally posted by GibonzTPTB will eventually use all these events as a pretext to outlaw the 2nd amendment, as having the 2nd amendment they might have resistance from people/civillians who wont toe the line in the future when more controversial policies are brought in. Essentially, limiting the strength of any possible resistance groups later on down the line...

Well that certainly seems to be the pattern up to now:


5-28-75 Centennial Secondary School, Canada
"The Globe and Mail demands that the “government . . . get off its butt” and introduce tougher ‘gun control’ laws. " "The proposals were recommended for legislation and passed. "

12-6-89 Ecole Poytechnique, Canada
"The 1989 massacre also prompted the introduction of new gun-control measures, including the controversial gun registry.."

3-13-96 Dunblane Primary School
Bristish gun laws were made much more stringent in the wake of the shootings.

4-28-96 Port Arthur/Broad Arrow Cafe
Stringent anti-gun regulations for Australians were enacted in the wake of this shooting.

3-28-98 Westside Middle School
"...Federal Emergency Management Agency officials will help develop a national program to combat school violence in the aftermath of shootings at Westside Middle School near Jonesboro, AK and other schools around the country, an agency official said Friday.

4-26-02 Gutenburg Gymansium
"....two hours after the attack, Germany's parliament jumped into action and immediately tightened the nation's weapons laws."

5-11-06 Antwerp Street Shooting
"Belgian lawmakers passed strict new gun control laws in 2006 in reaction to the racially motivated shooting deaths of a toddler and her black baby sitter in Antwerp."

11-7-07 Jokela High School
"Such a tragedy in the normally peaceful Nordic nation should make Finland reconsider its campaign against European Union plans to tighten gun ownership laws for youngsters, a senior cabinet member told Reuters."

3-11-09 Winnenden/Albertville-Realschule
"The German government has agreed to curb gun rights, two months after a 17-year-old killed 15 people with a pistol taken from his father’s bedroom..."

4-10-09 OAED Vocational College
"...an unprecedented incident for Greece that fueled debate about laws governing gun ownership..."

4-30-09 State Oil Academy
"The Azerbajaini Parliament's Standing Human Rights Commission chair Rabiyyat Aslanova said that security must be increased in higher schools.... Aslanova said that cameras must be installed at the entrance to universities...."

11-26-09 Pecs University
"(Justice Minister Tibor) Draskovics said that Hungary's laws on the possession of firearms had to be reviewed to see if any tightening is necessary."

6-2-10 Cumbria taxi rampage
"The government has promised to lead a national debate on the gun laws with MPs debating the issue before the end of July."
"If we are looking for what the problem is, it is clearly that in our society we have a huge number of guns that we need to get rid of." --David Cameron, Prime Minister

Originally posted by Gibonz
I was watching a documentary a few months ago about this and in it family members of some of the school kids involed were outraged at the amount of time it took SWAT to enter the school.

From memory they said the shootings happened around 11-12 in the day, SWAT entered after 1pm and took them to after 3pm to reach the library.

This got me thinking, what if possibly, TPTB wanted the shooting to continue unimpeded for as long as can be, to inflict as many casualties as possible and in so doing, become a huge national tragedy that will never be forgotten.

editby]edit on 17-3-2012 by Gibonz because: (no reason given)