Would you want to be a Freemason?

Originally posted by petrus4
For we are opposed around the world by a monolithic and ruthless
conspiracy that relies primarily on covert means for expanding its
sphere of influence — on infiltration instead of invasion, on subversion
instead of elections, on intimidation instead of free choice, on
guerrillas by night instead of armies by day. It is a system which has
conscripted vast human and material resources into the building of a
tightly knit, highly efficient machine that combines military,
diplomatic, intelligence, economic, scientific and political operations.

THE VERY WORD ’SECRECY’ IS REPUGNANT IN A FREE AND OPEN SOCIETY;
and we are as a people inherently and historically OPPOSED TO
SECRET SOCIETIES, TO SECRET OATHS AND TO SECRET PROCEEDINGS.

— J.F. Kennedy

edit on 9-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)

There's varying opinions on what exactly John F Kennedy meant by that statement some say he was talking about the Soviet Union and communism.... i feel he was talking about a few different things including YES secret societies i mean he point blank says "Secret Societies", so if it was just communism he was talking about when did the Soviet Union become a secret society????

reply to post by King Seesar


Here is a link to that whole speech. If you read it, instead of the chopped up, out of context version that conspiracy folks like to quote, you see that he was asking the press to not print everything they may hear and to think of national security. It's amazing how you can omit some parts of a paragraph and make it sound completely different.

Originally posted by cerebralassassins
now thats funny, i often find people wanting to join me, rather than some outdated organization clinging to an idea that has long gone and been overtaken.

Ahh yes, i have tasted evolution and it's finger licking good.

just tell me where to send my dues. I would follow Bob to the ends of the earth.

Originally posted by FinalAccount2008

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
My grandfather was 33rd degree Mason, and he was a good and honorable man.

If there are problems with the Mason's they are much higher than local halls.

Would you want to be a mason? I wouldn't.

As secretive and ancient as their system goes its hard not to connect it in my mind to the secrets of Egypt and the mystery schools. Makes me think there's something powerful and esoteric going on there behind those closed doors.

actually, you are pretty close. We don't have verifiable proof that we are tied to anything older than the 1700's, but our teachings elude to a much older existence. And the lessons are very powerful if you learn them right. Esoteric? sure is. The things that you say drive you away, are the things that brought me in. To each his own.

Originally posted by King Seesar
.... i feel he was talking about a few different things including YES secret societies i mean he point blank says "Secret Societies", so if it was just communism he was talking about when did the Soviet Union become a secret society????

The Soviet Union was a very secretive society. Hell, they put Sputnik up without us having a clue, they infiltrated our atomic weapons program from the outset and practiced high-level espionage with great results. If Kennedy was actually talking about 'Secret Socities' (as in this forum's subject) then why was he in one until the day he died?

Originally posted by petrus4
Probably the most interesting thing you can do with at least some Masons, is ask them whether or not they're Luciferians, and then watch them predictably say no; but then in the next sentence, actually launch into a series of apologetics for that figure.

There is no such thing as the Devil (Lucifer), so where are the apologetics?

I love how all the Freemasons have Google Alerts set up so they know exactly when they're being talked about.. then they can chime in and tell everybody the boogieman is really their friend.

JFK was not talking about USSR when he threatened to dismantle the CIA and overturn the Fed (EO 11110).
It's so funny to me to see the FM spin doctors try to say it wasn't "SECRET SOCIETIES WITH SECRET OATHS" that he was talking about.

Where's the secret oath for the USSR? HAHA.. Awesome!

Kennedy figured out after the Cuban Missile crisis and Bay of Pigs, that he was being lied to and manipulated by the CIA and his "handlers". He snuck secret letters to Kruschev and then they both figured out they were being manipulated by their respective TPTB's.

Before that he was a polyanna and that was when he pulled a Palin and "went rogue".

Since the beginning of America, our leaders have been a mixture of F.M's and people who had a problem with F.Masonry.

Many of our leaders have voiced their concerns about having someone who is a sworn-in govt official, be also sworn to a *secret oath in a secret society* which arguably supercedes his oath to his country. It's a conflict of interests... sort of like seeing John Ashcroft (or Kissinger) on the Board of Directors of Monsanto, while being the Secretary of State or Attorney General. Especially after Kissinger wrote "Food as a Weapon".

The problem with Freemasonry is the compartmentalization. You never know what SPIN you are getting since everything is shrouded in layers deep of meaning, ranging from mundane to highly esoteric. The problems aren't on a local/lodge basis, but it is widespread.

One of my close friends, who I've known for over a decade and lived with... was the Worshipful Master of a Lodge in Los Angeles. He was also one of the organizing members of the local branch of OTO/Thelema.

He had a poster of Baphomet (the usual image) on his wall.. was an advanced Alchemist.. and belonged to many other secret societies, ranging from Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn.. to Paul Foster Case's BOTA (the Builders of the Adytum).

We had long talks about the nature of Lucifer and God and the dog star Sirius, which is the true meaning of the All-Seeing Eye of "Providence".

I attended OTO meetings, celebrations at the Golden Dawn temple in Pasadena and when I expressed interest, I was brought into his SR lodge with him and one of the TRUE old-timers. They vetted me, but I bowed out, due to my concerns and fears.

The nefariousness of this "Ancient Order" is much more than people using their clout to get out of parking tickets.

reply to post by LeonoraTenen


I think you are confusing Skull and Bones with Freemasons.

Skull and Bones birthed the CIA, and many think they still run it.

Also, this is something that a bunch of people here have seen.
I haven't heard any Freemasons refute what this guy says yet. ???

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
JFK was not talking about USSR when he threatened to dismantle the CIA and overturn the Fed (EO 11110).
It's so funny to me to see the FM spin doctors try to say it wasn't "SECRET SOCIETIES WITH SECRET OATHS" that he was talking about.

*yawn*

The answer the question: Why was he in a secret society until the day he died?

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
reply to post by LeonoraTenen

 

I think you are confusing Skull and Bones with Freemasons.

What made you think this?? Because it's not true...

Believe me, I know as much as any of you about Freemasonry. I've studied it for years.
My Father was a 32º SR / Templar.

There are really no secrets anymore that haven't been published.. so it's pretty hilarious to see Freemasons saying they know more about Freemasonry than someone who's not a FM, but has studied it for 30 years.

And yes JFK could have been referring to Skull & Bones, as opposed to Freemasonry. But he definitely WAS NOT referring to the USSR as these professional spin doctors would have you believe.

It's like when Aleister Crowley fans take his words on sacrificing human children (In "Magick: In Theory and Practice" = re: sacrifice of a male child versus female, to invoke Mars energy) and spin it to say he meant the wasting of sperm that happens in his Sex Magick rituals, being the sacrifice of children, since he was around at a time when the R.Catholic church had a stronghold on society and believed masturbation was murder, due to the waste of semen.

It's an absolutely laughable "slight of hand" technique to deter the stupid from seeing the truth.

It's obvious you cannot differentiate between male and female sperm. So... yeah.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
JFK was not talking about USSR when he threatened to dismantle the CIA and overturn the Fed (EO 11110).
It's so funny to me to see the FM spin doctors try to say it wasn't "SECRET SOCIETIES WITH SECRET OATHS" that he was talking about.

*yawn*

The answer the question: Why was he in a secret society until the day he died?

Who don't YOU try answering the hard questions I posed, instead of hitting the easy Tee-Ball like you're riding the short bus.

Can you address the actual important points I brought up instead of distracting with semantics??
I honestly don't think so. And that's why you're going for the knees.

The answer to your irrelevant question is "WHO KNOWS?!?!" Nobody.. not you, not anybody.
And more importantly "WHO CARES?!?!" It doesn't change a word he said, nor does it change the meaning.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
*yawn*

The answer the question: Why was he in a secret society until the day he died?

Since you asked this at least 2x and nobody seems to be able to answer it seriously, (including myself previously) I'm going to give this another shot here.

Q- Why was JFK opposed to secret societies with secret oaths, if he was a member of one until he died?

Possible Answers (all as good as anyone else's best guess, which is as good as you're going to get):

1. Politician Doublespeak (look it up)
2. He is a lousy hypocrite and always was.
3. He is a megalomaniacal egotistical douchebag
4. Maybe his resignation letter (to said "secret society" you refer to) was stolen by Zeta Ridiculi grey aliens and shredded before reaching Father Lucifer's office.

reply to post by IsaacKoi


Nah, I wouldn't want to sell my soul to Satan. Which they make you do once you reach the really high ranks but most people don't even make it that far.

reply to post by IsaacKoi


I'm a mason just out of jail on probation.

Does that make me a Freemason ?

reply to post by LeonoraTenen


You need to read the entire JFK speech not just the snippets that seem to be a smoking gun. You are correct that it should be read in the context of the Bay of Pigs, but he is actually referring to the CIA and Intelligence community as the secret society with secret oaths but he is asking the press to keep more secrets.

reply to post by LeonoraTenen

I would ask you to read the entire speech to gain a better understanding of his words. Also look at who is audience was when he gave the speech.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
I love how all the Freemasons have Google Alerts set up so they know exactly when they're being talked about.. then they can chime in and tell everybody the boogieman is really their friend.

I don't have Google Alerts. I just research various forums and wanted to see what anti-Masons were bitching about. That's how I joined this site; I saw many false things being stated on this site and wanted to correct it.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
It's so funny to me to see the FM spin doctors try to say it wasn't "SECRET SOCIETIES WITH SECRET OATHS" that he was talking about.

As I said before, you need to actually read the entire speech and see who his audience was. If you actually read the whole thing and not some cut-n-paste quote, you'll see he was discussing the balance between the federal government's want for silence on national security issues and the right of the press to publish information. Deny ignorance and actually have all the facts before you make a fool of yourself again.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Many of our leaders have voiced their concerns about having someone who is a sworn-in govt official, be also sworn to a *secret oath in a secret society* which arguably supercedes his oath to his country. It's a conflict of interests...

You are mistaken. Our oaths do not supersede any obligations we have outside the Craft. Our Oaths in Masonry appertain to Freemasonry alone. God, family, country, and work come before the Craft.

Masonry imparts lessons of moderation and balance, to include the lesson of time management. One cannot dedicate so much of his time that other aspects of his life suffer for it. That is a bad Mason, IMO.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
The problem with Freemasonry is the compartmentalization.

Doesn't work how you're trying to spin it.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
He had a poster of Baphomet (the usual image) on his wall.. was an advanced Alchemist.. and belonged to many other secret societies, ranging from Hermetic Order of Golden Dawn.. to Paul Foster Case's BOTA (the Builders of the Adytum).

Everyone is free to do as he wishes, but the OTO and other organizations are independent, not belonging to the Masonic umbrella. I know a few Masons who are members of the OTO as well, but most are not. Nor are those who are also OTO members given any special treatment.

As for alchemy. There is nothing wrong with it. I know many alchemists out there and they are fine human beings.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
We had long talks about the nature of Lucifer and God and the dog star Sirius, which is the true meaning of the All-Seeing Eye of "Providence".

No, that is an interpretation. There are many.

reply to post by LeonoraTenen

This video has already been made into a thread and long debated, and refuted.

Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Believe me, I know as much as any of you about Freemasonry. I've studied it for years.
My Father was a 32º SR / Templar.

There's a difference between studying it and experiencing it.

My father's a cop, but I don't entertain the notion that I know as much as other cops.

reply to post by LeonoraTenen


I didn't say he was referring to the USSR, I said you were confusing the Skull and Bones with Free Masons, which you still are.

If you can show me a connection between the Mason's and Skull and Bones I'm all ears.

But if you can't you're no different from any other ignorant person who mocks what they don't understand. Not all secret societies are bad or connected, there are many fraternal organizations that do lots of good things. I take it as an insult to my grandfather that you claim he worshipped the devil. I hope you can break out of your ego someday and accept that there are things you just don't understand. Then you can either make an honest attempt to learn from an actual Mason, or shut your pie hole.

If I want to know whats for dinner I don't go on the internet, I ask my wife.

Want to learn about Mason's, ask a Mason.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
If you can show me a connection between the Mason's and Skull and Bones I'm all ears.

Later, when I'm not running out the door, I'll reply with more fodder for discussion.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
I take it as an insult to my grandfather that you claim he worshipped the devil.

I think it's sad that you think I inferred that your GP worshipped the devil.

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
I hope you can break out of your ego someday and accept that there are things you just don't understand.

I understand quite well that the lines between Lucifer (not the same as "the devil" or "Satan" FYI) and "God" (Adonai according to Albert Pike) are blurred in Freemasonry and all Hermetic orders that practice "the Craft".
So their "deity" which you must believe in to participate, can be as ambiguous as one wants it to be.

I will write more later.