Would you want to be a Freemason?

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posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 

Apparently, you're a dick for saying this.

reply to post by KingAtlas
 

A charitable organization sickens you? We don't say that our rituals make you better than non-members, it's more about an inward journey to better oneself not elevating above others.

Racism isn't "prevalent in many Lodges". Is there racism in some Lodges, but it is not widespread to such an extent that it is endemic.

Where are we to be "our Brothers keeper" or that the Fraternity surpasses our individual faith?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


Alright, I really don't want to argue with you. It has nothing to do with you.

The OP was a thread asking if you want to become a member why/why not.
If you solely interesting in derailing a thread then so be it.
I don't have to explain myself to you.

I do stand by what I said, my reasons are based on knowledge I have gained.
If you do not have this knowledge for yourself, then it is not for me to give.
You have to pursue knowledge to achieve wisdom.
In wisdom you are enlightened.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by KingAtlas
As for me, I would never want to be a Freemason, they sicken me.
Most of them follow these rituals, and these beliefs, that masonry makes you a better man than non-members.
Which in my experience is not very true.


Wrong. One of Masonry's purposes is to make you a better man than you would have otherwise been, not better than non-Masons. I don't for a second believe that as a Mason, I'm morally superior to every other person in the world; I'm quite certain that there are many, many non-Masons who make me look like a piker.

I'm just better as a Mason than I otherwise would've been.

Also, I'd be interested if you'd go into more detail on how extensive and representative your personal experience of Masons and Masonry might be. Just for clarity, you understand.


Originally posted by KingAtlas
Especially when it comes to christian-mason's. they are supposed to act in their faith. Christianity preaches forgiveness and humility, very few of the mason ATS members have these virtues.


Not all the ATS Masons are Christian although neither does Christianity have a hammerlock on promoting forgiveness and humility amongst its adherents either. And defining the full extent of a Mason's character by his postings on a conspiracy-minded website such as this is like judging a celebrity's character by the roles he/she plays on TV/film.


Originally posted by KingAtlas
Another detractor for masonry is that racism is prevalent in many lodges.I don't know about you, but I don't want to be part of a racist organization,


And you come to this thorough knowledge......how? Firsthand experience? I'd love to know.


Originally posted by KingAtlas
I should say the racism isn't a principle of masonry, just a bi-product of old white men sitting around together for the last decade.


You presume much and seem quick to tar all with presumed character flaws and shortcomings that might at best be exemplified by a tiny minority. My personal firsthand experience gainsays your unsupported assertions


Originally posted by KingAtlas
The nail in the coffin for me is the fact that they are expected to "be their brother's keeper", and their brotherhood surpasses their faith.


You have that entirely wrong. From Initiation, Masons are exhorted to be upright of character, generous in their time & charity and exemplary members of society in general. In a Mason's life, three things are to trump the fraternity: family, work and faith.

I'm impressed you have this simple point so completely wrong.


Originally posted by KingAtlas
Now some might argue this isn't the case, and perhaps it isn't so much anymore, but that is the way it was in the past, and there are still a lot of older members....


And again, your experience and knowledge of this comes from where exactly?


Originally posted by KingAtlas
Anyways, not all freemasons are bad people, i just find a lot of the disingenuous, almost hypocritical.


What was the particular experiences that lead you to think this?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by KingAtlas
reply to post by KSigMason
 


I don't have to explain myself to you.


No but it would help make your assertions more believable rather than just coming off as an anti-Masonic rant.


Originally posted by KingAtlas
I do stand by what I said, my reasons are based on knowledge I have gained.
If you do not have this knowledge for yourself, then it is not for me to give.
You have to pursue knowledge to achieve wisdom.
In wisdom you are enlightened.


Again, I'd love to have a better idea of the origin of your "knowledge".



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by KingAtlas
I do stand by what I said, my reasons are based on knowledge I have gained.

And I'm saying that information is wrong or extremely exaggerated in regards to the "rampant racism in the Lodge".



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Why do black men have to join PHA then?
How is it that masons don't practice segregation when PHA is for black men only?



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Black men don't have to join PH. There are black brothers in my mother lodge, and I have also visited three prince hall lodges to watch degrees.

Segregated masonry is by choice. Black masons like have black lodges. They are almost all officially chartered and recognized. A black man who wants to join a Masonic lodge can join a regular blue lodge, or a prince hall lodge.

I want to reiterate, segregation in masonry is by the choice of masons..



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 02:50 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Just do be clear, Racism exists in all aspects of life wherever it is allowed to thrive. You see it in some police, but not all, you see it in some religions, but not all, you see it in some learning institutions, but not all. In a nutshell, stupid people are still fully allowed to be stupid. And there is no "are you a racist" form in most groups that exist. So you have these people literally everywhere. The good news is that slowly, things are changing. But in my town, the prince hall masons don't want a non prince hall brother in their lodge either. There are folks on both sides that would like to see a change (me included), but change takes time. I have friends in NC that tell me racism isn't an issue with their area. They have black members and nobody seems to be concerned. I guess location is the key.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Why do black men have to join PHA then?
How is it that masons don't practice segregation when PHA is for black men only?


We just initiated two black me into my lodge during the past two Entered Apprentice Degrees. There is no 'segregation' in my jurisdiction. Try to answer without getting your post removed this time.



edit on 25-4-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 

Actually PHA isn't just for black men only. I know plenty of white men who have joined a PHA Lodge and black men, in a majority of jurisdictions, are allowed to join AF&AM and F&AM Lodges.



posted on Apr, 25 2012 @ 05:48 PM
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Black men can become Masons but not all Masons can become black men.
Though I am sure Masons would agree that colour is only skin deep



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Look guys.. I'm sorry for getting everyone so riled up in this conversation.

It must be frustrating to all of you masons to see these debates continue for year on end with no seeming resolution in sight.. undoing widely dis-seminated disinformation is a long process.

I am sympathetic now to what it must be like to try and remove what people have added onto something that is so basic and neutral in its purest form. And then for the added-on crap to become what others see the thing in its purest form to be.

So let it be said that I concede on all points. Freemasonry is a neutral pallette, to which has been added, lots of people's projections of spiritual notions. Some good, some bad.. some from the inside and A LOT more from the outside (anti-masonry and general pseudo-research).

I guess it's a tool that has to be defended from getting into the wrong hands.. not for the reasons Hall proclaimed in his 20's, but because it is a power-stick of sorts.

All of this occurred to me yesterday when a friend was coming at me about the Kabbalah being evil and I had to break it down for him, why it is not IN ITSELF, evil. It can be a tool for evil, but so can ANY TOOL.

I'm sorry. It's just that I see the mass-scale cultural entrainment exercise that is entertainment (TV, news, movies, music), art, sports, education, politics, energy etc.. etc.. and I can see that there is a global "cabal" who are dominating these "tools" and I can see that they have used the occult and secret societies as "TOOLS" for their infiltration and indoctrination to push the "Aeon of Horus".

But it is not freemasonry or Kabbalah that is "causing" these *inherently human* problems.

edit on 27-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)
edit on 27-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 07:39 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 

May I say - I admire your passion for truth and honesty in speaking of your example regarding the Cabala.
Yes it is true some people of psychopathic tendencies gather in groups secretly and plot what they see as fit for Humanity - Thank God they are not the only players.
I say find your truth and live it - live your dream
None of us are slaves only those who choose to be



posted on Apr, 27 2012 @ 11:02 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 

We can be extremely defensive at times, but you pointed out the biggest fact. I will say that the anti-Masons and non-Masons here alike are not as vicious as some of those in the past.


It must be frustrating to all of you masons to see these debates continue for year on end with no seeming resolution in sight.. undoing widely dis-seminated disinformation is a long process.

Yes it is.

Ironically, in my Communications class, we've been discussing the cultivation theory whereby mass media is capable of manipulating information with agenda setting and gate-keeping. The "reality" they show is not necessarily what it is. A very interesting discussion.



posted on Apr, 28 2012 @ 06:43 AM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 

I'd like to be in communications also, possibly music teacher...

the best method imo is to sing in an imprinting,




these go nicely here...



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by FinalAccount2008

Originally posted by AGWskeptic

Originally posted by FinalAccount2008

Originally posted by AGWskeptic
My grandfather was 33rd degree Mason, and he was a good and honorable man.

If there are problems with the Mason's they are much higher than local halls.


Would you want to be a mason? I wouldn't.

As secretive and ancient as their system goes its hard not to connect it in my mind to the secrets of Egypt and the mystery schools. Makes me think there's something powerful and esoteric going on there behind those closed doors.


I can't be a Mason, I don't believe in god.

They're pretty strict on that one, you have to have a deity to join the club. Any deity will do, but you must recognize one, and my hypocrisy only goes so far.


From what I've overstood, they make you worship a different deity at each degree. Which sounds great to me because of the love it could rise in an individual but the entire scheme of having overlords pass down knowledge kinda urks me. Plus as a sidenote I bet there are some things they will do that I would never do...


Totally untrue, As it has been said many times before, religion is not brought up in lodge, other than a "supreme being". Religion plays absolutely no part in the degrees.



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by banjozach
 


Therein within the deeper sense of the craft and it's necessary requisite for belief such as a deity is the true measure of weights. The idea of being "weighed & measured"
It pertains to deity to see how far you would go and how much you can handle and endure so that when deity appears... you can be elevated to the status of true overlord. Why? becuase only in that sense can your deity survive the washing away which is done by time and forgetfulness. When you are power and power is in you... you will impose on the masses the will and testament of your deity. Only with that power can it be done.
However, Freemasonry demands in return that you limit the power to morality and righteousness and not take over the world. lol
Through you shall it live on and with that power it shall be realized. BUT! But first you must earn the right and privilege of your true deity. So... good luck...
edit on 2-5-2012 by Pinocchio because: typo



posted on May, 2 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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Is it permissible for this deity one has to believe in, in order to become a Mason, to be nameless.
Then for one to pursue with good intent more understanding of this nameless one.



posted on May, 3 2012 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by artistpoet
 

We have several deists in my Lodge.





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