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Would you want to be a Freemason?

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posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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Why am I so fascinated by Masonary
There is something deep at play is what I have found
Seems Masons are the fall guys for the deeds of others
Historically by that I mean at it's very heart at the roots from seeds planted by others is something noble.
Something Men and Women of all this world aspire to
Ancient wisdom has been passed down forever - Yet wisdom itself can not be bought sold or traded or won by bloodshed.
To retain the knowledge that can lead to enlightenment and then wisdom - Our ancient forebears recorded in stone and scroll this knowledge - it is contained in symbols which like seeds if nurtured bear fruit.
It is true however that ritual and symbols can be interpreted in dark ways - Yet it is not the symbols that are at blame - it is the interpretor of them.
Knowledge they say is power - power is neither good or bad but can be used for ill or good if tempered with compassion and empathy and yes Love
We all have power and choice of how we we nurture or mistreat that power
Evil is a lesson not yet learned
If you see evil - thank your soul your Creator that it has been shown to you and that you have a choice not to be that evil
Evil men are weak and live a twisted truth for what they see is to be gained for self by the power each of us contains.
The Sun shines equal upon all - we are all equal in the eyes of Creation - This is not an empty platitude.
If one has power to do good for others less fortunate then do so as an equal.
What is it that makes us equal - It is the soul for you are as I in soul.




posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by KSigMason
There are plenty of threads on MTV-Square & Compass already.

So what...?? This thread is fine for discussing that topic. Are you trying to say it's "Off-Topic??

Are you trying to limit my ability to discuss MTV in a thread about freemasonry? If so, why?
I've seen those threads and they're pretty limp in my opinion. Most people are way too easily quelled.
Besides, this is where the action is right now and it's perfectly ON-TOPIC.
Why do you do that? It's super annoying.


Originally posted by KSigMason
FYI, it's "capisce" pronounced ca-pee-shay, Italian for "you understand". With a '?' attached to it, it translates to "Do you understand?"

Do you sleep in formal pajamas KSig??

dictionary.reference.com...
en.wiktionary.org...
www.urbandictionary.com...

THIS SPELLING HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE THE 1940's.

There are T-shirts sold with this version of the expression. It's spelled like that for effect.


Originally posted by KSigMason
The Order of the Thistle has nothing to do with Freemasonry nor the Templars.

Ehhhhtttt!! WRONG!
Maybe in your 5 years in the lodge, you haven't quite gotten to that point yet.
You guys always say one thing has nothing to do with the other, when it really does.
You want proof?? OK...

yorkrite.com...


The Royal Order of Scotland (ROS) - www.roosusa.org
An invitational body composed of highly dedicated and long serving Scottish Rite Masons. While allied with and considered a Scottish Rite Degree in the United States, this Order was once under the jurisdiction of the York Rite, being controlled by the Grand Lodge of Scotland, and as a result of this former disposition, it is also open to Knights Templar by waiver of the Provincial Grand Master. Membership requires affiliation with the Scottish Rite (32º) and a Trinitarian Christian, or a Knight Templar; and the recommendation of a member. This is the only Masonic body that is considered to be an authentic Royal Order. The Degree of Knight of the Rosy Cross is believed to contain remnants of the original investiture ceremony of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, the Royal Scottish Dynastic Order. The Masonic body is under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Scotland. In the United States of America, the body operates as a Provincial Grand Lodge, and the presiding officer is a Provincial Grand Master. It is unlimited in membership.

The two degrees worked are:
" Degree of Heredom of Kilwinning
" Degree of Knight of the Rosy Cross


So they are not only what I said before, but they are also a Rosicrucian degree.
And I'll say right now that Gnostics are no more Christian than John Dee was.


Originally posted by network dude
Knowing what I know of masonry, I cannot see any way it could possibly be behind anything that the bulk of it's members didn't know about. PHA included.

I'm going to ask, not presume.. do you know much about PHA?
Have you ever heard of "the boulé"?? What organization do you think Charlie Rangel is a member of?


Originally posted by network dude
As for the music industry, (and this is just my opinion) it goes with whatever sells best at the time. If you look back 20 years, you didn't see this kind of stuff. It was Ozzy and Dio and Slayer, and Megadeath. Satan was the big buzz word back then. Now, with the popularity of movies like the Davinchi code, and National Treasure, guess what? Occult symbolism is hot.

OK now I'm going to put my foot down, because I've been very generous thus far about where these lines are being drawn. This has been occurring for the past 40-50 years of music. It's not just a hot trend, meme because of where culture is "at" currently.

You can have your choice, either Freemasonry is involved in this occult conspiracy, or else it is not involved in it.
If you want to try and prove a case to me that THERE IS NO OCCULT CONSPIRACY whatsoever, happening in all Entertainment, I will have to provide compelling evidence to support my argument and you will most undoubtedly lose some ground in what you're saying.

I would choose your line carefully here.


Originally posted by network dude
The big thing is, how does seeing those symbols affect you personally? If you answer, "they don't", then I think you might realize that it's all marketing. Wait for the next 20 years and everyone will be dragging their butts on the ground while chanting "Old Long Johnson".

This is funny... I laughed.... however, this is hyper-relativism and just because a tree falls in the woods, and nobody was there, doesn't mean it didn't fall.

I can see that your agenda isn't just to protect Freemasonry from attacks, but to push for truth.
If that is correct, then please stop trying to squash any talk of secret societies pushing secret agendas.


edit on 17-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Just for the record, I'm a Christian Gnostic. The Gnostics were the primitive Christians, before being persecuted and sent underground by the Romanists. I say without reservation that true Christianity and the Gnosis are inseparable.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:19 PM
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More on Order of the Thistle:

Go look for Masonic/Occult author, Timothy Hogan.

And look at his photos here from his Order of the Thistle presentation on Templar and Scottish history.. to the Order of the Thistle... at the Austin, TX SR temple:

www.facebook.com...

So yeah....

Here's more on Timothy Hogan:

www.occultofpersonality.net...

His page on Free Illuminism:
("Illuminism" is the working of the Illuminati)

www.occultofpersonality.net...

On the Facebook page for the group "Thelema-Omaha" (Nebraska), they used to have a photograph of the marquis at the local Blue Lodge, which showed Timothy Hogan speaking there.
So the Thelemites follow his work, it seems. I find it hard to separate... his work is really stretching across from Freemasonry, into full-on Occult workings.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Just for the record, I'm a Christian Gnostic. The Gnostics were the primitive Christians, before being persecuted and sent underground by the Romanists. I say without reservation that true Christianity and the Gnosis are inseparable.


You say that because Gnostics don't believe Yehoshua ben Joseph ("Jesus the Christ") meant to be worshipped as the messiah.
Gnostics refer to Jesus as the leader of the way.. which we can all do like he did.
The Gnosis is a belief that we all will BE the Christ.. just like & equal to Christ. Part of the Christ Consciousness with Christ..

They do not believe in him fulfulling the law of "Kinsman Redeemer" and bridging Earth and Heaven with his crucifixion. Gnostics simply believe Jesus was another man, showing us the way to our own Christhood. But a very special example.


edit on 17-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Sort of. The Christian mythos was developed by Gnostic thinkers. Quite obviously, much of it is based on the mythologies of earlier faiths, and in particular, Mithraism and Osirianism. The Mithraic link is given plainly in the Gospel of Matthew when the Magi, the priesthood of Mithras, recognize the Christ Child.

Gnostic Christology is a rather difficult subject to approach, due in no small part to the abstractions involved. It makes the Athanasian doctrines almost seem like kindergarten level stuff when compared to it. But in the end, that may be the point. Deep contemplation on the mysteries of the Person of Christ, even in pure abstraction, can lead to the light of Gnosis.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Sort of. The Christian mythos was developed by Gnostic thinkers. Quite obviously, much of it is based on the mythologies of earlier faiths, and in particular, Mithraism and Osirianism. The Mithraic link is given plainly in the Gospel of Matthew when the Magi, the priesthood of Mithras, recognize the Christ Child.

Gnostic Christology is a rather difficult subject to approach, due in no small part to the abstractions involved. It makes the Athanasian doctrines almost seem like kindergarten level stuff when compared to it. But in the end, that may be the point. Deep contemplation on the mysteries of the Person of Christ, even in pure abstraction, can lead to the light of Gnosis.


I am quite familiar with the teachings and beliefs of all of these systems.
Just saying that so you can approach it from less of a 101 for beginners' angle with me.

What I have a hard time understanding is why someone would refer to themselves as a "Christian", if they believe that the whole mythos of Christ (and the Christian Trinity) was a regurgitation of Osirianism.. ?

You are making the same point here that Zeitgeist makes in its story... which is, that the Trinity of Christianity is simply a replica of the trinity of Osiris, Isis and Horus. This is to say Christianity is to Osirianism, what Catholicism is to Babylonian Paganism. Just a remix for the new generation.

Somebody who believes Christ was the "kinsman redeemer" who came as God *with our own blood* (a Kinsman) to pay a debt, which we cannot repay. If any of you were to look up the Mosaic law of "The Kinsman Redeemer", you would see how a true Christian feels about Yehoshua.

When people ask (and 99% of people, Christians-included ask this) "How did Jesus suffering and dying on a cross have ANYTHING to do with me and my sins?!"... it is simply because they have not heard of this old law, which relates to the Judaic and Christian belief in a "messiah".

Anybody who would say that Christ never intended to be, himself, a bridge between heaven and earth, should not refer to themselves as a Christian. It'd be like someone who admires Mother Theresa, calling themselves a Theresian. If he is not your savior, you are not a Christian. In this way, it is like an On/Off switch.

Either you believe in a "messiah" (as most world religions do, including Judaism) or you do not.
I know this is an unpopular point of view, but it is the truth regardless.


edit on 17-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:30 PM
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Also it was said earlier that the Knights of Pythias are not a Freemasonic organization.
While, this is officially true.. it is not a recognized order within FM, (in the way that York, SR, Memphis-Misraim, Prince Hall, or Shriners are).. however, it has stong ties to Freemasonry and if one were to look at who have been members of K of P, you will find that people like Nelson Rockefeller belong (and other power brokers).. and it is most definitely a secret society which has a strong connection to the message in Lady Gaga's music. Which is how I got on to the topic of them.

Here is a partial list:

Hugo Black, U.S. Supreme Court Justice
William Jennings Bryan, U.S. Senator from Nebraska
Benjamin Cardozo, U.S. Supreme Court Justice
Warren G. Harding, U.S. President
Hubert Horatio Humphrey, U.S. Vice President
Richard Irvine Manning III, Businessman & Politician
William McKinley, U.S. President
Nelson A. Rockefeller, U.S. Vice President
Joe Rollins, Houston, Texas, lawyer
Franklin D. Roosevelt, U.S. President
Sun Ra, jazz musician, composer & band leader
Lew Wallace, general, author, diplomat
Charles Schumer, U.S. Senator
Robert Byrd, U.S. Senator
Anthony Weiner, U.S. Congressman
Peter T. King, U.S. Congressman
Freddie Martin, Band Leader (Springfield, Ohio)

Not only are there presidents, but the president who put the Great Seal on our dollar bill, (FDR) was a member, meanwhile a 33º freemason.
edit on 17-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 


Just for the record, I am just a guy. I happen to be a mason. I have been a very active mason and I have studied a lot of things that most don't bother with. But I in no way claim to know anything special. And I don't speak for anyone other than me.

I am here for truth, and I am not afraid of finding out that my beliefs are wrong. But I will not just take anyone's word for anything. I need proof to change my belief system.

I don't have very much knowledge of the high level conspiracies in the music industry. I only know what I see and hear. I use my common sense to guide me when I don't have an answer. Now I have two choices, either the music industry is controlled by the bad man and he uses it do do something bad to me (even though I don't know what that is), or maybe the music industry is just a business. Sure there are back room deals, and the musicians always get screwed by the record companies. But even if I listen to Barry frikin Mannalow backwards, I don't have the urge to kill anyone, or drive off a cliff.......maybe Barry was a bad choice.

What do you think the goal of "the bad man" taking over the music industry is?



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 

I am saying its off topic as this thread was not started to discuss the Canadian MTV building. I say, go to that thread, make your posts and I'm sure people will respond. You'd also find in that thread plenty of information already posted. There is no logical or rational reason why you can't look through a thread already created on the subject.


Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
Do you sleep in formal pajamas KSig??

I'm more of a commando man myself.

I speak Italian and "capiche" is a horrible bastardization. From the word "capire" meaning 'to understand'; you (formal) is capisce (ka-pee-shay) while the informal is capisci (ka-pee-shee). I hate seeing it in movies where they say "capeesh". It's dumbing down of a language.

Maybe in England there is bleed over between the Masons and members of the Order of the Thistle, but British Masonry is not indicative of all Masonry. I am fairly familiar with all of the branches, orders, bodies, and degrees of Freemasonry. I've moved fairly quickly through my nearly 6-years in Masonry, but I'll admit I don't know every little detail about everything though I am always researching.

Wait? You say the Order of the Thistle is tied to Masonry, but post an exert for the Royal Order of Scotland, which I am familiar with. Royal Order of Scotland is not the Order of the Thistle. EPIC FAIL.


Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
And I'll say right now that Gnostics are no more Christian than John Dee was.

Then you know very little about Gnosticism and Christianity.

I am very familiar with Timothy Hogan, but those Facebook pictures show what a local Valley is doing. Maybe others do it, but not all Scottish Rite Valleys do it. I'm also familiar with his book on alchemy. Its a great book. I know he is traveling right now otherwise I'd talk to him on Facebook about the pictures. Maybe this summer I'll make a trip to see him and an acquaintance by the name of Cliff Porter, another author.


Originally posted by LeonoraTenen
While, this is officially true.. it is not a recognized order within FM, (in the way that York, SR, Memphis-Misraim, Prince Hall, or Shriners are)

Actually there are not too many places where the Rites of Memphis-Mizraim are accepted, and are themselves considered regular.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


My lord your a busy man! You've earned all these illustrious titles in six years, bro? Holy smokes!

Lenora, I was thinking last night and thought you would be interested to know, I was a member on ATS for two years before I became a mason. I asked lots of questions, and indeed, I at one point thought that Freemasons ruled the globe, and we're in on all the conspiracies. I've been a member since 2009 and I have yet to see any thing related to the conspiracies suggested on ATS.

Any way, I just thought that might be applicable here. I was a conspiracy theorist, before I was a mason.

edit on 17-4-2012 by W3RLIED2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by KSigMason
 


I edited my post to add a list of known persons who were Knights of Pythias.
This is quite a powerful organization, which has much CROSSOVER with freemasonry.
Have you ever thought about the fact that certain groups like to disaffiliate in order to appear on different teams.. this is part of the complaint people have about freemasonry. They say it hides its affiliations so it can play both sides of the field and do things like stage revolutions, while appearing NOT TO BE involved.
This isn't just a paranoid witch-hunt way to go about things, simply because there is SO MUCH evidence to support the argument that the affiliation is denied, but still exists. And this is the main problem for me.
I know you say I won't believe you, but that's only because you are throwing out a LOT of evidence to deny affiliation between certain groups.

Also, what you are calling an "epic fail" on my part (too much internet for you pal) is quite far from an epic fail... and just because you don't recognize affiliations, doesn't mean there isn't one. The Order of the Thistle, as explained on the particular York Rite website, which I linked, is affiliated with the Royal Order of Scotland.
The group whose pictures I posted a link to, were of the Royal Order of Scotland, but they identify themselves as "The Order of the Thistle" and were meeting with Timothy Hogan to discuss Scottish and Templar history.
What part of this do you have a problem with.. to call my points an "EPIC FAIL!"?? You are trying to make me angry and it's just showing how childish you really are to say these kinds of things... Epic Fail?? What's next, you "PWNED" me??
Grow up kid. I've been studying this crap 3 times longer than you have. But your isolated experiences, quickly progressing to the 32º gives you some kind of special knowledge that someone who has studied a MUCH broader cross-section of spiritual material for a decade longer than you, doesn't have. That's precious.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by W3RLIED2
reply to post by KSigMason
 


Lenora, I was thinking last night and thought you would be interested to know, I was a member on ATS for two years before I became a mason. I asked lots of questions, and indeed, I at one point thought that Freemasons ruled the globe, and we're in on all the conspiracies. I've been a member since 2009 and I have yet to see any thing related to the conspiracies suggested on ATS.

Any way, I just thought that might be applicable here. I was a conspiracy theorist, before I was a mason.


Thank you for this thoughtful and considerate post. You are a kind man.


I respectfully would like to remind you guys that I have been following this for many many years and I am suggesting the possibility that I have seen some things that do relate the conspiracies you have heard, with reality.

Perhaps I am drawing a connection to freemasonry that is not really there... but it is really there to be drawn between the conspiracy of propaganda (government +entertainment = entrainment) and the secret society of Thelema and OTO. This is simply impossible for you guys to argue against me on. There is way too much evidence to support this.

What Crowley refers to as the Aeon of Horus, is the cultural paradigm we have been programmed to accept by the propaganda machine of the past 50 years of culture. Crowley has been quite the fulfillment of the biblical prophecy of the Anti-Christ. His teachings and vision have been pushing the past 45 years of music, entertainment, culture and government forward. His affiliations with Hitler, Mussolini and English government are strong enough to wonder. And when his followers or esoterically-informed masons just wave their hand in front of your face and say "this is not true ~ it is not happening." someone with half an intelligence can see there is a cover-up / diversion going on. Can you understand this?

The psychedelic culture of the 60's.. Self-professed Crowleyite, Timothy Leary.. Sandoz Laboratories/CIA.. the way this dis-empowered the anti-war protest movement, by turning it into "Sex, Drugs, Rock n' Roll" along with the Beatles and the Rolling Stones (along with Bowie, Sabbath etc...) being Crowley-devotees... this is where the Aeon of Horus "hooked up" its tires to the race track and begun getting traction. He has led our culture to where it is now. It had previously been alley-ooped by cultural icons, like Rudolf Steiner, HP Blavatsky, Nicholas Roerich... and many many others.

We have become what the Illuminists envisioned.. Crowley was just carrying the baton in a relay race that had been going for some time. I don't see what is difficult to accept about these things if one has done that research.

Look up Rudolf Steiner (Waldorf education) and his models of "Lucifer and Ahriman".
Ahriman is just another word for "Satan - the opposer or adversary".


edit on 17-4-2012 by LeonoraTenen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:16 PM
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Oh my unspecified God
My head is spinning with all these groups and orders and who is in what and what is in who.
Know a tree by it's fruits they say - There are so many strange and exotic trees it seems




edit on 17-4-2012 by artistpoet because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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reply to post by W3RLIED2
 

One of my good friends in the Craft, is also the DDGM, calls me a whore.
By next month I will also have the RCC on my resume and possibly two more...as I have only been approached, but have not received the invitational letter.

reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 

By that logic then because there are probably several members of Lions, Rotary and Kiwanis, they must all be Masonic in nature. Cross membership doesn't mean there is a natural affiliation between the two groups. The cross membership is incidental.

There isn't a ton of evidence, there are a ton of theories and beliefs, but neither of those are essentially facts. Too many people are trying to make Freemasonry out to be some global boogey-man, some scapegoat, but even before I joined, I didn't buy it.

From your post, talking about the Thistle theory:


The Degree of Knight of the Rosy Cross is believed to contain remnants of the original investiture ceremony of the Most Ancient and Most Noble Order of the Thistle, the Royal Scottish Dynastic Order

Note that they say it is believed, but not exactly known. Also note that they make no mention that the groups are currently tied or affiliated. Plus, who cares? There are many Masonic orders today that use a name of a past order as a commemoration, but not as a descendant or affiliate.


The group whose pictures I posted a link to, were of the Royal Order of Scotland, but they identify themselves as "The Order of the Thistle" and were meeting with Timothy Hogan to discuss Scottish and Templar history.

It seems to be a mixed group, but please note what he named the album: Austin Scottish Rite Presentation

As I've said, my first hand experience has, by experience, trumped most of the anti-Masonic bologna that has come across my path.

reply to post by LeonoraTenen
 

Have you sat through any of the degrees? How many Masonic rituals have you participated with?

Anything with Aleister Crowley, I humbly refer you to Masonic Light who does have a much stronger grasp on this subject than I do.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:04 PM
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What would be the way to get recruited by the "illuminati"....?

Join the Mililtary and work up in the ranks?
Commit a mass shooting to prove loyalty?
Join the FreeMasons and network around?
Attend acting school in either NY or LA?
Get into politics?

What would be the best shot?



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by holywar666
What would be the way to get recruited by the "illuminati"....?


Your best chance to join the Illuminati would be to build up your bank account...
Money. The more you have the more you're interesting. That is what is going to initiate you.



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Who WOULDN'T want to wear a pretty dress and perform ceremonial majik in a big lodge with lots of sweaty brawny men in a completely gay saussage fest?



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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Originally posted by holywar666
What would be the way to get recruited by the "illuminati"....?

Join the Mililtary and work up in the ranks?
Commit a mass shooting to prove loyalty?
Join the FreeMasons and network around?
Attend acting school in either NY or LA?
Get into politics?

What would be the best shot?


Try reincarnation into a elite bloodline family



posted on Apr, 17 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by hudsonhawk69
 

Oh, you don't wear a dress every time. I don't know about other Lodges, but our AC works so the sweating is cut down to a minimum. Gay? It's only gay if you make eye contact or stop crying.



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