To those that call themselves Christian

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Wonders

 

Not the best way to approach reading the bible in my opinion...

I believe people should read about Jesus before diving into the rest of it...

Just my opinion of course

His story begins in Genesis. "Seed of the woman".

I disagree... but if we must "go there"...

what can be learned in Genesis thats relevant to the average person today?

Their is much to be learned from Genesis. No literal Adam and Eve, then no "Original Sin." No Original Sin, then you have some real problems to deal with as far as salvation is concerned. See Romans 5.

reply to post by Akragon

I disagree... but if we must "go there"...

Yes that is, it's a hint of the virgin birth. It's technically a genetic error, men provide the seeds, women provide the eggs.

what can be learned in Genesis thats relevant to the average person today?

Is Jesus' teachings truth or not? What did Jesus say we should feed on besides bread? What about when Jesus started with "Moses (Torah) and the prophets" and explained to people everything was about Him? What about when He blasted the Pharisees saying "Search the scriptures (OT, there was no NT at that time), and in them ye think ye have eternal life and they are they which testify of me"?

Dude, why would Jesus say that if it were not true?

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

I disagree... but if we must "go there"...

Yes that is, it's a hint of the virgin birth. It's technically a genetic error, men provide the seeds, women provide the eggs.

what can be learned in Genesis thats relevant to the average person today?

Is Jesus' teachings truth or not? What did Jesus say we should feed on besides bread? What about when Jesus started with "Moses (Torah) and the prophets" and explained to people everything was about Him? What about when He blasted the Pharisees saying "Search the scriptures (OT, there was no NT at that time), and in them ye think ye have eternal life and they are they which testify of me"?

Dude, why would Jesus say that if it were not true?

I believe he said "live by every word of God"... That also requires the belief the the entire bible is "the word" of God. And i don't deny the prophecies about him either way...

IF the average man was looking for spiritual knowledge... the OT would not be the place to find it... that is what im saying. Theres nothing that is relevent in this day. They have their purpose... but they serve as nothing but a history lesson for what not to do...

reply to post by Akragon

And i don't deny the prophecies about him either way...

Well, except this one:


"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Isaiah 9:6

reply to post by NOTurTypical


nope that one is quite obvious... but it doesn't mean its correct...

People called him lots of things... Thomas called him God... And yes i know Jesus didn't stop Thomas from worshiping him...

He still denied being God... and never called himself God either... obviously the son of God is still divine though.

reply to post by Akragon

nope that one is quite obvious... but it doesn't mean its correct...

Jesus affirmed the testimony of Isaiah. Afterall, He's the one who gave it to him to begin with.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Akragon

 

nope that one is quite obvious... but it doesn't mean its correct...

Jesus affirmed the testimony of Isaiah. Afterall, He's the one who gave it to him to begin with.

:bnghd:

I disagree... Isaiah recieved his testimony from God... Not from Jesus... They are not one and the same... They are two seperate entities.... the same essence yes... but not the same entity

Just as a mans son is made from the essence of the man and the woman, but not the same person

reply to post by Akragon


Isaiah = greatest prophet of OT Israel.

"Spirit of Prophecy" = Jesus Christ

Do you remember Jesus dealing with the pharisees and asked them why David called the Messiah his Lord, yet he wasn't even born yet?

He so effectively shut them up they didn't ask any more questions after that.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Perhaps you should just explain... Im of the opinion that Much of what you see in the OT is NOT work of the one true God. Not including the prophecies of course...

In his book he records "the lord" condoning the slaughter of innocent people... I do not... will not believe that is the same God Jesus spoke of...

You say that Christians believe there is one God... but there are MANY Gods spoken of in the bible. Amoung those there is ONE true God... And i believe he is rarely shown within the OT

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by Wonders

 

Get with the program, stop parroting what you are told in the churches and read the bible for yourself, from beginning to end.

Except for all those letters written by my "dear St. Paul" of course, correct?

edit on 16-3-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

I disagree with things that church going Christians believe, I don't parrot what I hear at church. I read the bible on a daily basis, there is a lot of things that Paul writes that are good to read, my main problem is that I think that some of the things he says contradict Jesus and those are usually the things that Christians choose to believe.

reply to post by Wonders

I read the bible on a daily basis, there is a lot of things that Paul writes that are good to read, my main problem is that I think that some of the things he says contradict Jesus and those are usually the things that Christians choose to believe.

That would be a common mistake, even in the days of the apostles:

"15 And remember, the Lord is waiting so that people have time to be saved. This is just as our beloved brother Paul wrote to you with the wisdom God gave him -- 16 speaking of these things in all of his letters. Some of his comments are hard to understand, and those who are ignorant and unstable have twisted his letters around to mean something quite different from what he meant, just as they do the other parts of Scripture -- and the result is disaster for them."

2 Peter 3:15-16 (NLT)

reply to post by Akragon

Im of the opinion that Much of what you see in the OT is NOT work of the one true God.

Then educate yourself to what you cannot see in the plain text. It's amazing stuff man. So amazing that the former senior computer cryptologist at the NSA verified the ELS codes found in the OT and stopped his lucrative job and now teaches the TORH exclusively in Israel.

YouTube ----> "Cosmic Codes"

reply to post by Akragon


I agree but all the blood laws were ended with Christ , getting circumcised was addressed by Paul . I guess what you are saying is we should be messianic Jews as opposed to Christians to truly follow the path of Christ . The truth is that Christianity was perverted long ago going all the way back to it becoming the official religion of Rome .

I think the biggest test we all will face is recognizing the false Jesus that will deceive many who do not understand the end times eschatology , I don't think Jesus will fault you because you did not get all the yeast out of your home at Passover or as most Christians believe Easter lol.

reply to post by Azadok

I guess what you are saying is we should be messianic Jews as opposed to Christians to truly follow the path of Christ

That is not even remotely close to what im saying...

How did you manage to come to that conclusion...

As I have said before, I'll say it again.

Originally posted by Wonders
I fully agree that true Christians do not sin but instead they take delight in abiding by the laws regulations and decrees of the Lord. A big problem is that MANY potential Christians are led by the wolves, those seemingly harmless people who fiercely defend their motto, "EVERYONE sins and there are no exceptions to THAT!! Hmph!". This is a clever guise of false humility and also, is an utter lie. These wolves choose to adhere to St. Paul's "discovery" (Romans 7:9-10) instead of the infalliable words of Jesus Christ.
Please allow me to explain further. Around 57 A.D., Saul/Paul wrote, "So I discovered that the law's commands which were supposed to bring life, brought spiritual death instead." Here Paul basically says we are made spiritually dead because of God's commands. Which means, the mere fact that God told us to do anything means that we're being spiritually mutilated.
On the other hand Jesus says that his words are spirit and life, (John 6:63) Please keep in mind that Jesus doesn't make up truths as he goes along, he never spoke on his own behalf. People do not live off of food alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.
That being said, I'd also like to point out that Jesus said, "If you recieve a prophet as one who speaks for God, you will be given the same reward as a prophet." (Matthew 10:41) This means that if you adhere to the ways and "deeper truths" of Paul's misleadings then you aren't much different from Paul at heart, and thus will be given the same reward/punishment as Paul. Be careful though, those of you give precedence to Paul's writings over the words of Jesus. Jesus quoted scripture, "You must worship the Lord your God and serve him only." Paul must not have known this scripture because he claimed to be a slave of God (Romans 1:1), and THEN claimed to be a slave of sin (Romans 7:14), and THEN proceeded to write several more books on the "Free Undeserved Gift of Eternal Life". Jesus clearly said that there is a COST to being a follower of God and that ANYONE and EVERYONE who sins is a slave to sin, a slave is not part of the family and does not get an inheritance.
Of course there is so much more I'd like to say but I'll finish with this clincher. Jesus said in John 15:6 "Anyone who does not remain in me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned."

Originally posted by Akragon
reply to post by Azadok

 

I guess what you are saying is we should be messianic Jews as opposed to Christians to truly follow the path of Christ

That is not even remotely close to what im saying...

How did you manage to come to that conclusion...

They are the only Christians that practice the Hebrew laws , messianic Jews believe jesus was the Christ prophesied in the old testament .

reply to post by Azadok


Oh i see...

So they stick to both the OT and the NT laws?

Regardless i wasn't saying "we should all be Mesianic Jews" to follow the path Christ gave as you suggested...

Quite the opposite actually...

Back to the topic at hand...

I will attempt to show that Jesus did not follow these 613 laws posted in my OP... and in fact taught against many of the so called laws...

Anyone is free to correct me

Jumping straight down to the 33rd law...

33. Not to put any Jew to shame. (lev 19:17)

Jesus regularly put his Jewish adversaries to shame with his knowledge of scripture... (example Mat 12 )

52. To give charity according to one's means...

yet... This is not what Jesus asked of his followers...

21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions.

23And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!



58.To lend to an alien at interest....



34And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. 35But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.


103. Not to commit sodomy with a male....

He said nothing about being Gay... Not a word. Touchy subject... but we can assume HE was not gay... Thus this one does not appy to him either way....

Moving on...

110.Not to do work on Shabbat

Also refered to as the sabbath...

10And, behold, there was a man which had his hand withered. And they asked him, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath days? that they might accuse him.

11And he said unto them, What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out?

12How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

Mat 12: 1-15


Dietary laws: 143 - 168

Dealing with "unclean foods/meats"

Jesus....

18And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;

19Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

20And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.


Court precedings...

288.That the Court shall pass sentence of death by stoning

Jesus...

let him who is Without sin cast the first stone....


That brings me to the halfway point... im sure i missed a few in there, these were the ones that stood out thus far....


Discuss before i continue?

reply to post by Akragon


Why would God have to follow the rules he made for man?

If you're a father, do you follow all the rules you give to your children? Do you goto bed at the same time as them, and not watch anything but PG 13 movies?

The One who made the rules, He can change the rules.

Originally posted by Iason321
reply to post by Akragon

 

Why would God have to follow the rules he made for man?

If you're a father, do you follow all the rules you give to your children? Do you goto bed at the same time as them, and not watch anything but PG 13 movies?

The One who made the rules, He can change the rules.

He did not make the rules.... Nor is he the Father...

And this is not the place for that arguement...