To those that call themselves Christian, page 1

Theres been something thats been driving me crazy over the past week...

I've been seeing this arguement on our forums for over a year now... yet when i question the people that use this ideology they seem to "disappear" until the question rolls off the board.

That being said... i decided to address the issue in my own thread so you people can't ignore it and let the question disappear in the middle of someone elses thread.

Now i know NOT all christians have this misconception... so this thread isn't addressed to those of you who actually understand.

The most recent occurance of this issue is from another thread.... And i quote.

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." -Matthew 5:17

The 10 Commandments are only part of Jewish law. There are 613 laws in Judaism.

Here is the 613 laws this confused poster is refering to...

www.jewfaq.org...

And he uses that passage from Matthew to back up his arguement...

Now myself not being christian... i don't know what sect follows this line of thinking... But as someone that has studied the words of Jesus extensively... I can at least inform those that claim to be christian that they are mistaken.

My claim is this... IF you as a christian, follow these laws... You are NOT following Christ.... And thus... Are not christian...

Any arguements?

reply to post by Sinny

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Likely because Jesus saw the error in the theology of Judaism... and refused to conform to what he was born into... Though it seems those that followed him, returned to judaic beliefs to some extent.

reply to post by Akragon

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Why don't you stop spamming this every day?

You link us to a "Judaism 101" webpage and say if we don't follows these laws we're not Christian?

C'mon man, even you know better than this.

The law was not implemented to save us, but to illustrate what convicts us.

Jesus stated that unless our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees (teachers of the law) we cannot attain the kingdom of heaven. So, salvation is the only option.

The old law was present in the old testament, and it was obeyed or sacrifices where made. When Jesus died for your sins old law no longer was accurate. New Law(in the new testament) was implemented. Christians do not follow old law, they follow new law, so those mean nothing, of course it isn't wrong to follow them if you wish to, but it isn't necessary as long as you follow new law.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Akragon

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You link us to a "Judaism 101" webpage and say if we don't follows these laws we're not Christian?

C'mon man, even you know better than this.

READ IT AGAIN....

Don't put words in my mouth man....

I said IF YOU FOLLOW THESE LAWS... you are not christian. I did NOT say IF you DON'T follow them...

Put on some glasses bro

And quit trolling my thread if you're not going to read what i said...

reply to post by Akragon

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I guess I could be considered christian I'm not sure...I'm not going to live by laws, I'll live however I want. Not saying I'll go murder and steal. Nobody is going to tell me I can't do this I can't do that because I can do whatever the hell I want.

Lock me up throw away the key, hell even kill me I don't care.

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Akragon

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You link us to a "Judaism 101" webpage and say if we don't follows these laws we're not Christian?

C'mon man, even you know better than this.

READ IT AGAIN....

Don't put words in my mouth man....

I said IF YOU FOLLOW THESE LAWS... you are not christian. I did NOT say IF you DON'T follow them...

Put on some glasses bro

Well we don't follow them. So I guess thats /end of thread?

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by Akragon

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I guess I could be considered christian I'm not sure...I'm not going to live by laws, I'll live however I want. Not saying I'll go murder and steal. Nobody is going to tell me I can't do this I can't do that because I can do whatever the hell I want.

Lock me up throw away the key, hell even kill me I don't care.

edit on 9-3-2012 by Evanzsayz because: (no reason given)

You cannot rightfully call your self a Christian unless you have repented and put your trust in Jesus as your Lord and Savior. We are saved by his grace, through faith alone no amount of good deeds will get us into the Kingdom of Heaven...

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration

Originally posted by Akragon

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
reply to post by Akragon

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You link us to a "Judaism 101" webpage and say if we don't follows these laws we're not Christian?

C'mon man, even you know better than this.

READ IT AGAIN....

Don't put words in my mouth man....

I said IF YOU FOLLOW THESE LAWS... you are not christian. I did NOT say IF you DON'T follow them...

Put on some glasses bro

Well we don't follow them. So I guess that's /end of thread?

edit on 9-3-2012 by RevelationGeneration because: (no reason given)

DUDE... You're frickin THICK...

READ the OP post again.... I said IF you are one of the people that understand this misconception, this isn't for you....

NOW GTFO of my thread if you can't read simple english

I think your thread has been exposed as another pointless attack on Christians without any substance, and now you are resorting to flaming because you are embarrassed. Sorry dude but you should really think before making ridiculous threads like this. Christians do not follow the mitzvot and are not called to do so. Their is no misconception here, most people understand this. I have read through your post 3 times already and don't see any logic behind it.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

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I believe in God and Jesus. I don't go to church or read the bible. I have been saved before. I just don't live like a religious person...the belief is there but you would never think me to be a christian if you met me. I never do anything wrong I'm a good person I just believe that the way I live is for my choosing I don't have to obey laws made up by other people.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration

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no amount of good deeds will get us into the Kingdom of Heaven...

Yet.... people were "saved" in the sheep and goats judgement because of their good deeds?

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by RevelationGeneration

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I believe in God and Jesus. I don't go to church or read the bible. I have been saved before. I just don't live like a religious person...the belief is there but you would never think me to be a christian if you met me. I never do anything wrong I'm a good person I just believe that the way I live is for my choosing I don't have to obey laws made up by other people.

Believing is not enough. Even the demons believe in God and Jesus. As for being religious, Jesus came to end religion not start one. As a Christian I hate Religion... In most cases it is an abomination teaching salvation through our works and not by faith in the saviour. You are not a good person, none of us are, we have all broke the ten commandments and fell short of the glory of God. That is God's standard to whether we are good people or not. Only through faith and repentance can we avoid eternal damnation which is our rightful punishment for sin.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Akragon

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Yes, the apostles wrote many things about Jesus, what he said, what he did, who he was... but they don't all agree... furthermore, the localization of the tales passed along became intertwined with regional tales that weren't universally consistent with each other; despite the fact that the stories all claimed to be from the followers of Jesus.

Saul of Tarsus offended many by not restricting the faith to Jews alone; but his will prevailed somehow.. erasing forever (ostensibly) the idea that who one's ancestors slept with had anything to do with spiritual salvation.

The collection of quotes and stories Christians call the bible is - in reality - a compromise reached by the Nicene council to pave the way for mass distribution of texts - this enables a 'standardized' doctrine. In other words, it was a politically expedient thing. As proof you need only consider the presence of the "Apocrypha" a collection of books which despite not 'fitting' the compromise, could not be simply erased from the cultures that embraced them over the centuries.

The bible has evolved to conform to the values of different peoples - and in some cases "a person", and there are too many versions of it standing as evidence to deny this reality.

That one quote where Jesus speaks of the laws he did not come to destroy but fulfill, is fertile ground for the vain self-righteousness of zealots who won't even admit they can not be certain as to which laws he was referring to exactly, let alone if it was the entirety of the traditional Jewish tenets. Matthew may not have been speaking of all laws, but of the contextually relevant one's framing the argument in that portion of the text.

Frankly, the real question has to be about the nature of divinely inspired scripture, is it ALL divinely inspired? Even the apparent contradictions? If so, what message is that conveying? Is there truth to the enigmatic quasi numerological subtext embedded in the scripture, and whose work is that? Is it "God's Code?" - some say yes... did Jesus "use" that code"? Did his disciples? Or wasn't that hermetic knowledge that certain sects restricted to their own purposes? Was it only a matter of the Septuagint? Who will answer... and will there not be dissent?

Sorry to pound your Op with all this 'non-answer' but well.. you got me thinking... and I couldn't stop myself.

reply to post by Akragon

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There are some Christians who believe that Levitical laws still apply to them.... those are the people who this thread is aimed at...

Well I guess I am one of those people.

As some Levitical laws do still apply. Such as this one:

Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a man, as with a woman: it is abomination.

Why? Because its in the new testament also: such as Cor 6:9 which is considered canon by all Christians.

reply to post by Akragon

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I'd guess you are probably talking to me. Although I agree with 99% of what RevelationGenereation has said, I try to follow the 10 Commandments. I believe this document was written to be followed for all time. It states as such in the Bible.

I believe that Jesus came to do away with all the other laws that were(Hebrew-Jewish) written after the 10 Commandments that were laws given in a time when God wanted his chosen to be separate from the rest of the world-----before Jesus came to fulfill all written by the Prophets as given to them by God.

reply to post by Maxmars

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Yes, the apostles wrote many things about Jesus, what he said, what he did, who he was... but they don't all agree...

If your talking about Paul, even the early apostles agreed with Paul's Gospel that he preached.

The collection of quotes and stories Christians call the bible is - in reality - a compromise reached by the Nicene council to pave the way for mass distribution of texts - this enables a 'standardized' doctrine.

So are claiming that the Nicene council made the bible up? I don't quite get what you mean.

reply to post by Maxmars

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Thank you for your thoughts... and i appreciate your input...

But it didn't really address the issue at hand...

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