Occupy: I want to believe

page: 1
3

log in

join

posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 07:39 AM
link   
Kali74 in particular, can attest to the degree of cynicism which I've recently expressed, concerning the Occupy movement. I have had serious concerns about the potential level of Communist influence, as far as a hijacking of the movement is concerned.

I've been looking around online, though, over the past few days, and I've been finding a few different things. One of them is this thread, where XPLoDER links to a very positive video. From there, I also found this website, which demonstrated to me that, at both Occupy and Occupy-like events around the planet, people have been both discussing, and actully doing, some truly amazing things.

I then found an Anonymous' video about Project Mayhem 2012:-



This video isn't the major thing, though. I went to the YouTube page, and read some of the links in the description. Some of the material there is among the most positive and inspiring that I've ever read.

So I'm starting to realise, that this movement really is something very different to what a lot of us have thought. I'm not saying that the material that Breitbart has put in his movie, Occupy Unmasked, is not the truth. I think black bloc anarchists and violent people genuinely have been there, to some extent. I have, however, also known what a lie the sanitation issue was, and that it was used purely as a justification by Michael Bloomberg, to shut down Zucotti Park.

I think probably the single most interesting thing about what happened at Zucotti Park, if you're really able to look at it from both sides, was the degree of polarisation. There were a lot of incredibly positive things happening there; and Bloomberg's actions really matched their light, to an equally proportionate degree with his own darkness. The raid was literally held in the middle of the night, in order to try and prevent anyone else from knowing about what was happening, and it was so secretive that the police themselves weren't even initially told what to do, other than to merely show up at the site.

Other people have tried to say to me that this doesn't fit into the conventional left/right thinking, and the reading I've been doing, has started to show me that that is true. The events have been focusing primarily on actions and their effects, rather than ideology. If there is a risk of violence somewhere, they try and talk it down. If someone is sick or injured, they try and have facilities on site to help that person heal. If people are hungry, they feed each other.

I also know, that the advocacy of things like free food are again seen as elements of Communist ideology; but I've since started to think that if that is true, then it's conservatives who perhaps need to take a hard look at what they really advocate, morally; particularly if they call themselves Christian. Capitalists still need to eat; but a problem with Capitalism that I've always had, truthfully, is that they are unwilling to recognise that other people have the same need, or to consider it important. The people who run these events, are focused on reciprocity.

That brings me to another point. There is something honestly different about the Millenials, as a generation. I actually saw this during the one offline Anonymous raid I went to, once; and I've been seeing it even more, with the literature that I've been reading in association with Project Mayhem, and Take the Square, as well.

Although I'm not saying that is is all of them, by any means, there are a lot of people within the current generation are not only more idealistic, but also more intensely loving, than any other generation in history, that I'm aware of; and yes, this actually includes the Boomer hippies. Reciprocity among many of them is viewed as being reflexive, and entirely natural. They just do it, and there is no ideology or ism as such, attached to it whatsoever.

I've also been trying to look at the reasons for my own cynicism. As the Project Mayhem people themselves would say, it is of course fear. I've read a lot about the NWO and the Illuminati conspiracy, and there has been a natural assumption made by me, that Occupy were completely tied in with the cabal's plans. I've had a lot of bad experiences. I really wanted to believe that Zeitgeist, as one example, was going to be something good; and then found out that it was a negative cult, internally. So my reflexive tendency now, is to be suspicious to the point of outright cynicism about anything. I think to a degree I need to work on overcoming that.

To the degree that Occupy are violent, I think that is true; however, there is also a core ideology here which is non-violent. It also doesn't advocate population reduction; it advocates inclusion instead, and the idea that every individual is capable of making contributions that perhaps no other individual might have been able to.

I think the cabal have tried to hijack Occupy; I think they're probably going to keep trying to hijack it, and subvert it to their own ends. I might continue to feel wary about that, and I think I do still need to keep using discernment about what I read, see, and hear. I am also beginning to realise, however, that there is another stream of thought and belief and feeling, here, which I don't think can be hijacked.

It's too positive. It isn't violent. It doesn't respond to provocation by police. It isn't discouraged or deterred by lies spread by psychopathic politicians and the mainstream media. It focuses purely on solving problems, and its' only real interest is ensuring that we as a species survive; and more, that we do so in a loving and positive context.

The other thing that I'm realising, is that the degree of positivity or negativity which exists here, is purely up to us. We can watch Breitbart's movie, which of course is going to consist of the black bloc going nuts, and talk about ACORN and George Soros, etc; or we can focus on the number of other people who've been associated with the movement, who don't have anything to do with either violence or political shill organisations, and who've been doing some extremely positive things.

Both exist. The real question is, which we want to focus on, and which we want to devote our energy towards. I'm beginning to want to focus my energy on the positive element. The negative is still going to be there in the background, but focusing on that is only going to paralyse me. If I take hold of the positive side of it, I can use that, to myself start making some beneficial, practical change.
edit on 9-3-2012 by petrus4 because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 08:26 AM
link   
You might want to hear what Francis Scott Piven thinks of the coming "Spring". Piven is a hero to many in the Occupy movement. She thinks the movement is about to enter its second phase where "it makes trouble". Based on what I've been reading I think she may be right. Look up the 99%Spring.


Leftist professor and activist Frances Fox Piven last week predicted the Occupy Wall Street movement is entering the phase where it “makes trouble” and will soon be taking action against banks and other institutions.

“It may well be that the Occupy movement is now in its second phase, in the phase where it makes trouble, in the phase where it threatens to shut down institutions,” Piven said. “The Occupy movement has moved into the neighborhoods of our cities, it has moved into the schools….This spring, we’ll see action against the banks, against the corporations.”

She added, “It is going to be a spring with lots of protests that take different forms and engage lots of people.”

Piven made her comments during a lecture to a group of students at the University of Connecticut last Friday. She touched on the genesis of the Occupy movement, which she said was particularly a result of the financial crisis, which “exposed those in charge of the economy as illegitimate.”


There is some video of her speech as well. She kind of creeps me out.
www.theblaze.com...

ETA
You've got to be careful with movements like this that encompass so many ideas without a distinct focus. The peacefully minded will always clash with the agitators that need the larger movement to get publicity. Study the Kent State Shootings in 1970 and you'll see what I mean. It started out peaceful until the agitators arrived in buses and campers. The rest is history.

Back then the leading group was SDS (students for democratic society) however, for many the SDS was not going far enough, they were not extreme enough. The faction groups spun off on went on with their own agendas. Namely the Weather Underground/Weathermen. They took it to a new level with their domestic terror and bombing campaign. The FBI's domestic mission was forever changed based on their actions.

We've seen the same outbursts from within the occupy rallies. The Black Mask Bunch will always steal the headline and the average citizen will always remember their actions and not the actions of those who sat peacefully.

There are too many cooks in the Occupy kitchen right now and chaos will be the end result.
edit on 9-3-2012 by jibeho because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 08:43 AM
link   
The first thing to understand is that even though there are some devious forces trying and some succeeding in getting their dirty hands on the Occupy movement, the crap you see on TV and read about online is not the Occupy movement in and of itself.

Even though people like to throw around the communist/socialist rhetoric, see post above, it does not reflect the underlying dissent that is brewing from within each and every one of us.

Sure there are some commies and union thugs running around the Occupy sites, but the awareness it has created is rooted much deeper and cannot be denied by the naysayers.

Occupy is not a global socialist takeover of America!

Occupy is a campaign of awareness and it forces you to realize that governments and big powers not only control us all, but are the root of all our collective problems.

Don't listen to people that use internet links to prove what Occupy is.....you define what it means to you and how you can define it.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 08:54 AM
link   

Originally posted by jibeho
There is some video of her speech as well. She kind of creeps me out.
www.theblaze.com...


I think it's very important to keep the focus away from victimhood. That can be a challenge, because the political Left tends to love viewing themselves as victims, and also having someone repressing them who they can fight back against.

I don't want to see the focus being put on the terrible things that the banks have already done. I'm a lot more interested in seeing how these events can provide solutions to the people who are there; in terms of practical things like food, Internet access, cultural and idea exchange, and so on.

One very interesting thing to look at, with the history of left anarchism; a lot of the literature which even some contemporary anarchists seem to think is important, was written in the 1860s. That's 150 years ago now; and I think the most revealing thing about that, is that it demonstrates the length of time that these people have been spinning their wheels, and not really getting very much done; at least outside Europe.

Occupy and the civil rights movement are the only two exceptions to this that I know of in the Western world; and the one thing that both of those movements have had in common, is nonviolence. To me, what that says is that the black bloc's strategy has been attempted and found wanting. Occupy has also been even better than the old civil rights movement as well, because instead of just protesting, they actually started practically helping people on-site.

It says something even more important, though; namely, that if we want to improve things, we have to focus on what we do want, rather than railing (violently or otherwise) against the people who we perceive as being responsible for what we don't want. If we want a scenario where people don't starve, we need to look for ways to create that ourselves. We can't scream at Monsanto about what they're doing to the food supply, because that is what Monsanto themselves want to do.

So I don't think what this person is advocating, is going to be a good thing, if it emphasises us feeling as though we're victims of someone else, and we need to throw a tantrum (which is basically what rioting is) and violently react against whoever said someone else is. The focus in general terms, has to be moving towards what we do want; not against what we do not.

This is also the entire reason why the system tries to encourage us to feel like victims, because it knows that if we do, and if we simply try to throw ourselves reactively against it, it will drain our energy and accomplish nothing.

The police don't attack Occupy with riot gear and tear gas because Occupy have been really violent, for the most part. The people behind the police know very well exactly what this is; a clash of paradigms, or literal civilisational models. It's the same reason why peaceful raves (dance parties) have been raided before.



The psychopaths know, that their entire oligarchic, elitist model and way of life is currently under threat. Pacifism is the one thing that they will respond to with the most violence; because the capacity for compassion is the one thing which the psychopathic mind does not have, and it is also the one thing which is the diametric opposite, of the basis of psychopathic society.

Psychopaths want a society that is based on elitism, greed, apathy, war, hate, and fear. Non-psychopaths instinctively want a society that is based on love, peace, equality, and mutually meeting each other's needs. The only reason why the psychopaths have managed to rule for the length of time that they have, is because the non-psychopaths mistakenly believed that the psychopathic population had the same values and intentions, and gave them the benefit of the doubt.



That is changing.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 09:04 AM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 



Even though people like to throw around the communist/socialist rhetoric, see post above, it does not reflect the underlying dissent that is brewing from within each and every one of us.


Please educate me on the communist/socialist rhetoric that I am throwing around.

I posted a link to an interview with a women who is held in high regard among many in the occupy movement. Impossible to deny. Like it or not the movement has long been co opted by the unions and the fringe element.

Last year was just a taste of what to expect in the major cities this spring and summer. The agitators will always get the spotlight and taint your movement. The core occupy movement needs to run as far as possible from the element that is hell bent on using them to push their own agendas.

I referenced Kent State as a valuable learning tool. It all started peacefully until the "trouble started" The fires, the arson, the vandalism, the cutting of fire hoses etc etc etc

"Inquire, Learn, Reflect" These are the words carved into the stone of the May 4 Memorial at Kent State. Don't let history repeat itself.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 09:17 AM
link   

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 



Even though people like to throw around the communist/socialist rhetoric, see post above, it does not reflect the underlying dissent that is brewing from within each and every one of us.


Please educate me on the communist/socialist rhetoric that I am throwing around.


I don't think he was saying that you as an individual are.


I posted a link to an interview with a women who is held in high regard among many in the occupy movement. Impossible to deny. Like it or not the movement has long been co opted by the unions and the fringe element.


I thought that, too. But then, as I said, I started realising that violent/dissident people are only one side of the coin.

I'd also like to see what your definition of "fringe," is. I've spent a lot of my time among people who are usually considered fringe, but that didn't mean they were violent; quite the opposite. Violence has actually become well and truly mainstream, at this point.


Last year was just a taste of what to expect in the major cities this spring and summer. The agitators will always get the spotlight and taint your movement. The core occupy movement needs to run as far as possible from the element that is hell bent on using them to push their own agendas.


That element are being bankrolled by the system, though. They also can't be run from. Try and go somewhere else, and they will still be there.

We need to stop making this about what the people sitting in their loungerooms, and staring at the television think; because apart from anything else, they aren't ultimately people who make decisions. So if they think Occupy is purely based on violence and extremism, that's fine. Let them; at least for the time being.

I can't tell you that 9/11 was false flag. I can't tell you that the school shootings have been false flag. I can't tell you that every single "threat," which the government comes up with, to convince you that you need it, and have to remain chained to it, is a lie and woven from whole cloth. You have to experience that realisation for yourself, as every single other individual does.

If I want to be a victim, then I'm going to care about what other people think Occupy is; whether as I said, the TV watchers in the living rooms think that it is violent or not. If I don't want to be a victim, however, and actually accomplish something, then I'm going to do as sheepslayer suggested; which is to allow Occupy to be whatever I choose to define it as, and take from it for myself.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 09:42 AM
link   
reply to post by jibeho
 




Please educate me on the communist/socialist rhetoric that I am throwing around.


I was referring to the link you provided.



I posted a link to an interview with a women who is held in high regard among many in the occupy movement. Impossible to deny. Like it or not the movement has long been co opted by the unions and the fringe element.


Some individual movements have been co-opted. That is clear. But those that have done the co-opting are the ones holding people like Fox Piven up on a pedestal.

The normal, everyday people that are out there speaking about real issues probably don't know or care who this person is. I don't...that's for sure.



The core occupy movement needs to run as far as possible from the element that is hell bent on using them to push their own agendas.


The agitators will simply follow the movement and taint it regardless. We need to stand firm, let the nutjobs be dealt with and continue to speak out about what we believe as individuals.

No matter what we are going to experience some growing pains while we go through this next stage of evolution in this civilization. Violence may occur, but it would not be necessary if tptb would simply play nice. If they had not created this situation we would not have to rise up.

So I hope you see that we are at a point in which we are being forced to act and Occupy has been as peaceful as we can expect.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 10:11 AM
link   
reply to post by petrus4
 


I'm not quite sure what to say other than I think it's admirable to follow something through, many of us squirm or outright reject something we aren't comfortable with. You didn't, it's something I'm in the process of being able to do, I hope. You made some really great points.

I especially like this because it's something I can identify with but had no clue how to put in words and is definitely a part of why I react so strongly sometimes to some of the methods of detraction.



Although I'm not saying that is is all of them, by any means, there are a lot of people within the current generation are not only more idealistic, but also more intensely loving, than any other generation in history, that I'm aware of; and yes, this actually includes the Boomer hippies. Reciprocity among many of them is viewed as being reflexive, and entirely natural. They just do it, and there is no ideology or ism as such, attached to it whatsoever.


You also have given me some things to think about, so thank-you.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 02:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by petrus4
 


You also have given me some things to think about, so thank-you.


I'm glad. *hugs*



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 04:40 PM
link   
reply to post by sheepslayer247
 


I completely understand your perspective and respect you commitment to the cause. My message is one of awareness. I think back to Oakland when the occupiers clashed with the black mask bunch. Rest assured they will also be back this Spring and Summer.

In this video you can clearly see the conflict between the movement and the joy riders.



posted on Mar, 11 2012 @ 12:37 PM
link   
The original post in this thread is amazing,. So are all the others.

So let me add my two cents. I do not know as much about Occupy as I should because I've had a cynical attitude about it from the beginning but maybe that's not such a good thing and was a mistaken response. I went briefly to several occupy events and it was about what I expected. Its not a bad thing by any means but its just a beginning.

Its interesting and actually really brave what the OP said about the new generation rising up now. Of their sincereity and depth of feeloing.. I think you are right and its surprising. And its brave to say because the image of the new generation is so horribly trashed and stigmatized. I can't believe even gen X had it anything close bad with being bashed by the media and stuff like they always complain. And the boomers get to write their own history. Look how cool the boomers always made themselves look in the movies of the 60s, 70s, and even up to now? No gen X gen Y or Gen Z could have that kind of self-image, it would seem pompous and humiliating.

they taught us to hate ourselves real well.

And yet what the OP said about purest being the kids now is CORRECT to me. It FEELS correct, I don't have actual evidence but it rings true. I want to believe, too.

Can anyone in this thread recommend some good links for keeping up with the most important news of occupy now? Its not the area I focus my interests on in terms of activism but I guess I better start now.

Here's my suggestion for OWS:
Explore Mutual aid as an anarchist concept. It is a fundamental concept, back to Kroputkin obviously. Even central, moreso in the early days. Why is it so forgotten now? Not as "trendy" as blowing things up? It proves arnachism does not have to be violent at all. Occupy MUST remain peaceful it must NOT become Custuristic or guilty of "left-wing adventurism". This is ALWAYS a risk with the youth vanguard but MUST NOT happen this time.



Pay people with respect not with bankster notes.

And if you think it makes you cool to shoot or explode things? Your an idiot. I've seen what explosions do. I've seen what industrial sabotage is. It might surprise you. You think its fun I carry these links for our comerades in prison, like a game? There is nothing else right now. We have to STICK TOGETHER and ALLWAYS BE PEACEFUL.

Link to prison section of three twenty five.

Use your brain not your muscle like a dumb animal. Even if you want to destroy civ we respect the boundless potential of the human to to master her world while working for progress.

Here's an idea how about being nice to manual laborers and helping them out? I'm doing this a little now. In the grocery store today I thanked the cashier for all her hard work and told her I wanted to do all the bagging and myself so she could rest. She looked like maybe early sixties in age and very tired and ragged looking. I wouldnt have doen this if I thought it would be uncomfortable but I had an instinct she would not respond badly at least. While she was doing this I told her all workers were comerades and she was my comerade not my servent. She got embarrased. Then I gave her a flyer pressed descreetly into her hand as I said goodbye. I think she will read it.[[

PEACE is the ONLY answer.

Please excuse me for ranting a bit but this message must be represented wherever this topic is seriously discssed. I dont mean copy and paste I mean stop and comment from the heart.

If I don't do that I feel sick in my stomach. if I don't encourge peace these days i feel like i cant face myself. I didn't always feel this. Now its the most powerful feeling.

edit on 11-3-2012 by SilentThundersGF because: (no reason given)





 
3

log in

join