Future criminals "can be spotted at age of two"

childparenting.about.com...

A 5-year-old may be able to exhibit much more self-control, such as sitting for periods of time in a classroom and listening to a teacher's instructions. At the same time, a child this age will still be prone to meltdowns over something as small as a spilled glass of milk.

www.parentsconnect.com...

Yes, even though your big kid is not a toddler anymore, it's not uncommon to deal with meltdowns so here are a few tips to deal with them:

Go to the source: try to uncover the cause of your kid's tantrums. When does he start to lose control? Is it when he's tired, bored, hungry, or is something else causing him to stress? Sometimes when you understand where he's coming from, you can prevent the triggers and the tantrums.
....

Make an honest assessment: do your kid's tantrums come and go, or are they more chronic? Do they happen frequently both at home and outside the home? Do they escalate to the point of aggression toward other people and destruction of property? If you are concerned, seek professional help to cope with your child's behavior.

Hang in there! All kids go through ups and downs, and you're not alone in dealing with tantrums. Try to be patient, focus on the positive and enjoy the ride.

School age kids vary as well. Children with learning disabilities such as speech delays and autism, and even very normal children.

Now here is the thing. Are the ones dealing with the kids who have all this education, child pyschology and experience qualified?

You know Hitler and the SS are not psychologists, not teachers, in fact they were extremely psychopathic, and this is about the same kind of deal.

Also very masculine energy.

We need the feminine right up front , sharing 50/50, a good blend because other wise things very distorted.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by Lasr1oftheJedi

 

for the youngest kids it is-
"He said showing the worst-behaved children how to socialise and giving them proper boundaries could prevent problems escalating." Thats NOT being DRUGGED. Thats NOT being sent to some juvie hall. That is getting extra attention to learn how to play nice. Is that really a bad idea? Solve the problem at this age when its cheaper, or go ahead and pay for more expensive incarceration at a later date.

It is being osticides instead of being taught to intergrate with his or her peers. Once you're set into one of those types of situations, the stigma can carry all the way through your schooling and later into life. Kids who attent schools for deliqents from middle school up end up also being the most likely to later be found in a juvienal hall and or later a jail cell. I know, because I went to a deliqency school (shows in my grammar, am I right?). And for ever kid that broke the cycle, 10 went further down the rabbit hole. So, yeah, I think setting a kid aside causes problems, because the other kids remember this stuff. And even when you step up to the next level of education (grade to middle, middle to high) that stigma is gossip that lingers. Will such a program, training a child in socialization when at four they arn't living up to the teacher's exceptations a good idea. Nope. weither 3 or 4, they're still at the age of exploration, and testing boundries. No need to label them a "bad seed" and have them known as the trouble maker until they go to an out of state college. That's assuming the peer pressures and that don't bog them down into something less.

Originally posted by VonDoomen

for older kids 5-6-
It was also appropriate for some five and six year-olds with the most serious difficulties to spend some time at institutes for the most unruly pupils, he suggested.

A juvie for a six year old? Man that would have to be one terrible child. I mean, what could possibly qualify a child of only five or six years to start down the path of deliquency by being put in a class with other "unruly pupils". Why not teach the child with her/his peers so that s/he isn't surrounded by these other "problem children". Have you ever seen kids together. You arn't rehabilitating anyone at age five by putting them with other "unruly" five year olds. They have to get use to the interaction with the world sometime. Those are the years that are key to this stuff. Again, pulling them to the side and putting them in special classes in special buildings isn't going to do anything but exasterbate the problem.

In the end, I get the whole, "If a kid is having trouble adjusting to the socitey, we should do all we can for them." I really do agree with that point. At the same time, we got to let them achieve those steps, and remember that these are kids. Kids should be kids. Previous generations didn't have all these hangups, they went through some rough and tumble as children, and most turned out alright.

P.S.
I apologize if the quoting doesn't work right, I'm a virgin in this.

Soon it will be like Gattaca. And birth they will analyze your blood and tell you everything about you. Will tell at what age you will die and why.

reply to post by Lasr1oftheJedi


Where does it say they will be ostracized?
Students get speech therapy at that age so they don't have a lisp and become ostracized. Remember, you guys are creating this scenario in your mind where thats the case. the same with the "juvie hall" quote. That is your guys idea and wording. No where does it appear in the article. These special institution would be just like..... schools.

where they are taught to play nice with other people.

WHY ARE YOU PEOPLE SO OPPOSED TO KIDS WHO NEED HELP GETTING EXTRA HELP? THEY ARENT GOING TO DO THIS TO EVERYONE. THIS ISNT TO HURT KIDS OR SOCIETY. IT IS TO BETTER SOCIETY.
DEAL WITH IT NOW WHEN ITS CHEAP AND SAFE. OR DEAL WITH IT LATER AFTER SOMEONES BEEN KILLED AND THEN YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR EXPENSIVE PRISON STAYS THAT DO NOT HELP PEOPLE AT ALL.

reply to post by Unity_99

I disagree with the Feminine 50%/50% here as young males especially ones without a Fther or father Figure are going to be behind the curve and will need more Male influence especially to teach them respect for the Female Sex.
A Tough Kid growing up with an absent father will develop very hardened and a law of the Jungle will take over with groups and Gangs and it is imperative that a young male ego at 12 to 15 years old is not left to be controlled by only females which will make the Male youth angry.

The only way to gain control thereby effect the learning curve of groups or gangs is to become the Alpha Male of that Group. Many in teaching...especially Females and some Men who think that Physicality is the equivelent of STUPIDITY...reject this concept...but I know it works. To be able to teach them...you must gain their respect...to do this...you must become one of them...and not only that...but the Alpha Leader who has the groups interest at heart and has their back. This is very close to Military Concepts but more on the level of Special Forces as their rules are unconventional...as is the teaching method demanded in these cases for sucess.

Most importantly....any member of the group...must be and have the right to challenge the concept and direction of any action...a Good Leader is not afraid of this....and will first listen then ask what concepts or plans another has that that individual deams better for the group...if the idea is just for the betterment of an individual the group will see through this and order will be reestablished. This concept can work in a Hardened group o offenders or in a class in the suburbs. Split Infinity

reply to post by VonDoomen

Oh noes!!! I am 100% for this. Looking back at my elementary school, I cant even fathom how much time of mine, my classmates, my teachers, and tax payer dollars were ABSOLUTELY WASTED, because of 3-4 (same)kids who would cause some kind of incident every day because they didn't want to read a damn book. I dont want my kids going to school with these kind of idiots. Ship them out and straighten them up. Im sick and tired of having our lives be dictated by rules that are necessary due to the lowest common denominators in society.

Just gotta chime in on this one.
1. I was one of those trouble makers. I keep finding stimulation with a gusto, but as years passed, I learned to learn and learned that learning adds something, making difficulties easier to cope with. Hmm
2. These 3-4 kids are present in every classroom solely because of group dynamics. They are in every classroom because they are called for, established, pigeon holed and scape goated...

That's right. Little trouble makers are good for something. If you take them away they will soon be replaced, as your wants desire..

It would be a good program of Eugenics. Take away the most troublesome kids and ship them to a distant island, 1000's at a time. Let them swap genes for 100 years and what do you get? Highly animated but politically docile, super tolerant people, with a high concentration of quirky people, low crime rates and high living standards... and the worlds best athletes.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

The only way to gain control thereby effect the learning curve of groups or gangs is to become the Alpha Male of that Group. Many in teaching...especially Females and some Men who think that Physicality is the equivelent of STUPIDITY...reject this concept...but I know it works. To be able to teach them...you must gain their respect...to do this...you must become one of them...and not only that...but the Alpha Leader who has the groups interest at heart and has their back.

I think you're really onto something here - except that these troubled gang minded youths may be influenced to try harder to be outcast if there is an incentive and more importantly if you put these people to 'use' you give control of them to a power that might be corrupted - as usually is the case where children are concerned.

I think it can be handled if people thought more like country people do, or people from 3rd world countries and took responsibility for people around them. That and the massive bias there is against unruly males.

Originally posted by VonDoomen
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

These kids would act out, throw hissy fits(scream), fling themselves on the floor and stomp their feet. They would refuse to stop, they would drag their feet when being removed from the class room. And yes, these were also the kids starting fights with people.

So these kids were disruptive and violent? You seemed to have left that out of your earliest post. So, no, I am not defending that type of behavior at all. You originally stated that these 3 or 4 students refused to read a book. Rufusal to complete an assignment or carry out a task is not what what I might consider a reform-school offense. I realize you didn't use the term "reform school" but if you are speaking of sending off unruly kids to a government run or over-sighted institution then calling it any other name is just a repackaged ad campaign.

I believe I have had several clashes of will with instructors during my school days in the 50's and 60's and I assure you I am no criminal and have been a productive member of society, now retired.

This has nothing to do with teachers being on power trips or americans being obedient and compliant. Its about every citizens OBLIGATION to become educated and be a productive member of society. Our society is one of rules and laws. Those rules and laws are for the benefit of society as a whole.

Yes, I already gathered your political orientation is somewhat authoritarian and collectivist. I am skeptical of those views. There are other ways of dealing with unruly children than having showdowns in class, drugging, or sending them off to reform school. If a child was reluctant to read aloud in class because they were embarrassed by their own reading skills then perhaps a remedial reading class would be more appropriate(?).

In another current thread there is a discussion of the US's corporatized prison system. What makes that particular thread interesting is that those private jailors are seeking to take over State prisons and requesting from those States they keep them at 90% capacity! What? Capacity quotas?!? I would think the goal of society would be to reduce crime and prison population. Corporatized prison systems would be in conflict of those goals. Liberty would then be at the mercy of a fascist corporate capitalism. Not a pretty future in my view but I have little doubt there would be many Americans that would prefer to institutionalize children at an early age as possible, the standard for referral declining continually in order to feed the corporate system.

I feel prisons and such institutions are largely unnecessary. I believe many so-called societal aberrations are more a matter of preferrence and lifestyle choices that could easily be accomodated at a community level. I certainly do not favor a homogenous one-size-fits-all society.

Perhaps what you were favoring were more like some special-ed classes a child might attend in their own community?

Originally posted by squandered
reply to post by SplitInfinity

 

The only way to gain control thereby effect the learning curve of groups or gangs is to become the Alpha Male of that Group. Many in teaching...especially Females and some Men who think that Physicality is the equivelent of STUPIDITY...reject this concept...but I know it works. To be able to teach them...you must gain their respect...to do this...you must become one of them...and not only that...but the Alpha Leader who has the groups interest at heart and has their back.

I think you're really onto something here - except that these troubled gang minded youths may be influenced to try harder to be outcast if there is an incentive and more importantly if you put these people to 'use' you give control of them to a power that might be corrupted - as usually is the case where children are concerned.

I think it can be handled if people thought more like country people do, or people from 3rd world countries and took responsibility for people around them. That and the massive bias there is against unruly males.

You are correct that if the wrong person or teacher is put into this responsibility that they could easily influenced in the wrong way...that is why VERY SPECIALLY TRAINED individuals would and must be required for this type of job. I have seen the WRONG WAY to do it and that was these BOOT CAMPS where fear and intimidation were all the rage...I am sure you have seen some version of this on TV such as Scared Straight. This is NOT THE RIGHT WAY to encourage kids to learn.
It has to be mostly positive reinforcement and the experience I had at the beginning with the KID with the Knife...well...that was only a tiny fraction of the total time and experience that occured during the teaching process. I get sick to my stomach when a Sheriffs dept....strips away any dignity of a young troubled kid where they treat the situation as if the KID WAS THE FAILURE! THE KID WAS NOT THE FAILURE...THE PARENTS THE TEACHERS THE LAW AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT AS WELL AS THE SCHOOL WERE THE FAILURES. If I am a Bad Mechanic and I can't fix a car then I shouldn't be a Mechanic or at least learn how to be a better one. The Teachers job is to teach....if they can't get the kids to learn...who is at fault? Not the KID...the TEACHER and all the systems in place around that teacher. I hear alot of...well i can't teach them anything because they won't listen to me....well...THAT IS YOUR JOB...FINDING A WAY TO GET THEM INTERESTED IN LISTENING TO YOU AND GAINING THEIR RESPECT. If a Teachr can't do that...then they are a BAD TEACHER! Split Infinity....continued...

reply to post by silent thunder

Sounds good on paper but what exactly will this special "environment" mean?

Good question. Apparently you didn't read the article. Not everything is a super scary sinister plot. Removing extremely troubled children from a normal classroom environment is a good idea. It protects them, and would be classmates. Shoot they should probably be given steroids and put to work. No sense wasting non talent.

reply to post by SplitInfinity

Now I admit...I am saying this to teachers who are not trained as I am nor are they as Physically Imposing as I am....still there are 30 of them and only one of me. I was also dealing with most Bad Assed of the Bunch....Kids from the City that are taken out of their comfort zone and into MINE. I was asked to do this as I used to be in Scouts...became staff for a beautiful Camp and they decided to try a program that my Scouting Mentor...an x-Marine....came up with while talking with the Sheriffs Dept.

They had an idea of what I also did and this took some doing to get me the time to take part in the program...PAY WAS NOT INVOLVED. Alot of these KIDS lived their whole lives in the city nd were ASTONISHED AT WHAT THE SUMMER NIGHT SKY ACTUALLY LOOKS LIKE without light polution. Some of these kids would have been serving HARD TIME if not for their age and I was warned in advance. Only 10 out of 100 former Staff or Staff from other camps decided to participate...and I don't blame them. I went because I know I will always be the most Dangerous person in the Camp...I knew the Camp like the back of my Hand...and I was sick of watching people label KIDS the problem and never for one moment think that THEY MIGHT BE THE PROBLEM!
As I said...my Scouting Staff Mentor...a former Marine...he was in his 60's back then...and still was tough as nails with a body that was all muscle and sinew. During the program which lasted for several weeks in the summer the first time....out of 10 staff members...3 quit after the first day which ment class numbers went up to about 30 per Staff members...such as me. I didn't see a problem with it....it made projects easier with the numbers and once you gain respect...you don't have to worry about a KID from the City trying to ESCAPE....escape to where? We were in Black Bear country and these kids were scared to death of Racoons and ESPECIALLY THESE TINY SCREACH OWLS....that screach in a manner that makes it sound EXACTLY as if a person...a woman...was being tortured to the extent of having their arm or leg cut off. Second night e were there....I had thirty KIDS in and around my Wooden Platformed Tent telling me there was a serial killer in the woods or a Bear was Eating someone...or it was JASON from Friday the 13th. That little OWL did more for me than anything I could have put them through. After that....and I did not tell them until the day they left....I had no worries about ESCAPES! LOL!
We got through it together....I know that it ment something to them as we recieved reports on how they behaved in school that Sept. and like I said before...I still know a few and one I know very well and is doing well....He say's that summer was the difference between him joining the Military and he say's the way he was going before he would be dead.
We tried to start a Program to TEACH TEACHERS LEADERSHIP SKILLS AND HOW TO DEAL WITH GAINING RESPECT. Only two showed up out of 50 invited. We still went on with the program and it was two weks and no pay was involved. Because only Two showed up we had to change some of the things we were going to do....but both Teachers...one slight very feminine Female....and one slightly overweight....not after two weeks with us! LOL! In fact his wife sent us a thank you letter! Well both of them did well and the Small Feminine Female...she was pretty and told me she was having a problem with the City Kids making Sexual Comments about her and calling her home...she got an unlisted number and they would leave inappropriate GIFTS at her door...she was single.
By the time she left she was so self confident I think I actually PITY any kid that mesed with her....as for the Man...he had a slight lisp even though he was married they were calling him Gay....which threw him off his ability to teach...so I told him...next time a kid starts in with that...say...why do you ask...are you looking for a DATE OR SOMETHING because I am too old for you! I also told him to look up words for Vocabulary lessons and have the problem Kid go to the blackboard and try to spell and describe the definition of Homophobia and Psychology and the connection between the two of how insecurity in ones sexuality lends itself to loathing and questioning oneself of what they fear they may be sexualy...He called my Marine Buddy and said that was the end of teasing. They also had a jump in their students GPA and the lithe Woman said to me when she once visited the dock where I was life guarding.....she was no longer afraid of anything and this extended to her Mother and two Sisters who were always pushing her around like...Oh...we can get HER TO DO IT! Without asking and just expecting...she said that the greatest day of her life was having the guts to drop her Boyfriend who was Verbally Abusive and would blame it all on her. SPLIT INFINITY

Time to burn this # hole to the ground!

Tell you what:
In early gradeschooI I used to have to deliver the cold milk to the other classes just before the pavlovian lunch bell
which just happened to be during geography.
I still had to write the required tests.

my marks went up

take all the kids out of school

its only cog production at this point anyhow

reply to post by silent thunder


This topic is very interesting; studying the behavior of young children which may be an indication of who they may turn out to be in the future; perhaps criminals.

Ted Bundy when he was (3 years old) was staying with his Aunt Julia; she had put him down for a nap and laid down herself; she woke up to find that she (her body) was surrounded by knives; Ted Bundy (again he was 3 years old) was standing at the end of her bed eerily smiling at her.

As most of the world knows...Ted Bundy turned out to be a serial killer.

Which brings me to the thought: Are some people born evil; and no matter how they are treated or raised they will eventually do harm to others.

I was listening to an interview on Rense last night 2nd hour
I forget the gurests name but he is a regular anyhow

they were discussing that psychopaths victims become psychopaths
psychopathy is generally ( not always )a learned response
like child abuse begats child abuse

reply to post by Tecumte


You know the sad thing is that It was a time in America and in my littler Island that the best prevention for social disorders were "discipline", when I was in school in the 60s, not student that I can remember ever raised up to talk back to an adult that included teachers, I remember that if any of us even look bad or made a face to the teacher we no only will get our parents to spank us for the disrespect but also the teachers and principal, the result? most of the now adults I remember that graduated with me are respectable members of society, but during the 70s something started to change, discipline was tagged by authorities in politics child abuse society in our nation is been going down the hill I blame it to all those political whores looking for votes from the part of society that has denigrated the most, plus enviromental issues.

Sad.

Most children that are in medications for behavior problems, will become Dependant of more drugs as they becomes adult, never to be able to cope with life without a happy pill, they will develop long term health problems and other disorders, some as the result of the vicious cycle of drugs prescribtion.

None of that was available when I was growing up and we did just fine.

Profits and money, the statistics of how many adults will be Dependant on prescribe antidepressants in this nation by 2020 is becoming a very depressed number to even digest, specially when children are now the target.

Thanks politicians and big pharma money and profits before human care.

Depressive disorders affect approximately 18.8 million American adults or about 9.5% of the U.S. population age 18 and older in a given year. This includes major depressive disorder, dysthymic disorder

The new target children, even babies.

Pre-schoolers are the fastest-growing market for antidepressants. At least four percent of preschoolers -- over a million -- are clinically depressed.

www.upliftprogram.com...

Depression is not a weakness in my books but the result of environmental issues, like the manufactured chemicals we digest in our daily food and the air we breath, but rest assure that never will be admitted by our corporate dictatorship government, the greed for profits is too sweet so screw the population and just let pharma profit from the results.

Just look how people have become more and more Dependant on antidepressants for the last 40 years and then put two and two together, when it comes to the environment and the food we eat, our bodies and specially the brain will react to the crap we digest that is not supposed to be part of our natural diets.

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


It wasnt even for reading aloud, just simply following along with the teacher in these cases. Im not sure why you are bringing the prison system into this(yes i know i mentioned it tangently), but this proposed idea seems to be a way of limiting the number of people who go to prisons by helping them at a younger age. Im doing my major in criminal justice (cybersecurity) but half of my classes are pure criminal justice related not computers. All of my profs have been railing on the prison system. Mainly because as you said they are very costly and inneffectual. Were looking at a 90% recidivism rate for violent offenders. The modern CJ system does nothing to solve the problem at its root, all it does is ostracize and incapacitate people. Which is why i am 100% for this program. Preventative/rehabilitive programs are much cheaper and much more effective when we go after sone of the roots of the problem.

The issue with the kids im speaking is actualky an issue eith their parents, or lack of parenting. I may be authoratative in this one instance, ( trust me im not overly authoratative). But my issue, our taxes pay for the school system. I dont want mine or any other eager childs time to be wasted by the few bad apples in the system. Its utter lunacy to make everyone else subject to this crap because of them. And yes i firmly believe everyone has a responsability to atleast get a high school level of education. Because i dont want to havemy taxespay for their welfare so they can be vagrant and abuse drugs. As i mentiond earlier, these same kids have been in and out of jail for drugs and robbery. I could probly pull up 10 seperate links with news stories of their illegal escapades. If we had maybe given these kids some extra attention at an early when it was obvious they were heading down the wrong path, they may have been saved. Now these idiots already have kids, and imstill inc college. Andi guarantee their children will be exactly the same. The apple doesnt fall far from the tree.

Originally posted by Annee
Does this article mention brain scans? I can't read it right now.

There are many links to brain scan technology - - - recognizing potential dangers - - - even in young children.

Loosely related to this, I remember reading about how analyzing a young child's impulse control is a reliable indicator when it comes to how well that person can control themselves. However, the younger the child, the poorer the control; and by the same token, the younger the child, the more hope of re-shaping destructive behaviors we have.

One other thought on this topic: rather than an opportunity to ostracize a misbehaving child, perhaps this is an opportunity to redirect the child's behavior while still pliant, and perhaps more importantly, it may offer an opportunity to educate, redirect and support parents. I'm afraid many of them just aren't realistic about the difficulties of parenthood and simply give up.

Why is profit involved? That only proves to me that it is not a genuine effort to rid the class-rooms of bullies (seen the fact that suffering from being bullied runs in families, own unfortunate experience !), but another, I would say, diabolic system to push more children, even if they do not fully fit the description, into criminal profiles, so to overachieve profitability for the private organisations involved. How sad and pathetic times we live in, and remember the solution comes from a government that wants to force both parents into fultime employment, by austerity measures, leaving children with no other choice than being institutionalized for nine hours five days a week (which is plenty of time to get a full profile) and later on wants to make more money out of the same children by selling the profiles. The guys coming up with this idea are criminals and should be dragged into court, if they manage to implement this non-sense.
Attention though, before they managed to come up with this, they already were fiercely fighting against the "Claims Culture".
People, please wake up and get rid of these politicians at the next elections.

reply to post by silent thunder

Thanks for this.
Again shows what kind of Orwellian society we are heading towards.
In the future they will probably brain scan us all and decide our future based on those findings...
I really feel sorry for the next generations that has to grow up in this sick society.