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have A Question about transportation and Electromagnetic pulses's

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posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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I was wondering that if an emp scorches the electrical grids with new cars being a casualty, what cars will survive it maybe this has been discussed before, or there is a list out there somewhere? if anybody has info on this subject put it here
edit on 8-3-2012 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)

edit on 8-3-2012 by DocHolidaze because: (no reason given)




posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 04:44 PM
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If enough energy is induced through free electrons, any electrical circuit which is not shielded against an EMP will be fried. Any vehicle without electronics should be fine but these are hard to come by, also parking in a basement garage will have a shielding effect, especially when the building above it is made with a steel frame.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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I think anything 1980 and earlier will likely be ok. You might need to keep a spare electronic ignition module in a sealed metal box, insulated from the metal of that box. IMO, any car with a powertrain control module, or electronic control module; basically any car with one or more computers controlling it's operation will require a lot of retrofitting to get running. If the car also has fuel injection; electronic not mechanical; then it would need a new intake manifold and a carburetor to work. That is why I drive a 1979 van. It has been retrofitted with points and a condenser, and I have spare condensers just in case.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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i have a 84 subaru gl, does this fall into the category of an emp safe vehicle?



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:15 PM
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Originally posted by DocHolidaze
i have a 84 subaru gl, does this fall into the category of an emp safe vehicle?
You will need an electronic ignition module, buy a spare and put it in a faraday cage.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by DocHolidaze
 


Anything with a points and condenser ignition. When did ford and chevy come out with electronic ignition '74-'75ish



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:20 PM
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An alternator has a diode which I think could fry from an EMP. I think alternators came in on American cars about 1962.

If your ignition survives have plenty of gas as station pumps and cash registers will not work. Also have a good siphon hose!
edit on 8-3-2012 by oghamxx because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:22 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
i have a 84 subaru gl, does this fall into the category of an emp safe vehicle?
You will need an electronic ignition module, buy a spare and put it in a faraday cage.


your reply made me question Relays? electric fuel pumps? I need to get better education I think.


OP:::thanks for making me think on this



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by oghamxx
An alternator has a diode which I think could fry from an EMP. I think alternators came in on American cars about 1962
Forgot about that. It is actually a diode pack, a wheatstone bridge. You can buy that separately and put it in the same faraday cage as the ignition module.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:27 PM
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reply to post by DarthMuerte
 


good looking out u have been much help



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:51 PM
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Originally posted by rebellender

Originally posted by DarthMuerte

Originally posted by DocHolidaze
i have a 84 subaru gl, does this fall into the category of an emp safe vehicle?
You will need an electronic ignition module, buy a spare and put it in a faraday cage.


your reply made me question Relays? electric fuel pumps? I need to get better education I think.


OP:::thanks for making me think on this
That is why my van has a mechanical fuel pump. Most older cars have only a few relays, and they could be bypassed in an emergency. I drive such an old vehicle for multiple reasons. I consider an emp a very serious possibility mainly as a terrorist weapon though.



posted on Mar, 12 2012 @ 02:54 PM
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If it's military grade and launched from an airplane,it will take out all cars in a country the size of america.

There are special emps launched from sattelites and are desighned to take out one car at a time.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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reply to post by DocHolidaze
 


It's been mentioned before and even studied. Evidentally many newer cars will run, but not properly. Housing the computers inside metal boxes as they do, serves as a pretty good faraday cage on many cars.

Anything that doesn't have EFI is an instant winner. Many chevys will still be working because chevy held onto the carbed 350 for a very long time (30 some years of the same engine). Rip out the electronic ignition if it's toast (it may still work because it's not computer controlled), and scavenge a points ignition from a junkyard. Chevy would be the prominent vehicle because of the above mentioned.



posted on Mar, 14 2012 @ 11:14 PM
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I cringe as I post this; I can smell the pilot-lights on all your flamethrowers coming to life....

A decade ago, the government created an interdisciplinary assessment of the impact of EMP attack on the US at that time. IT was called "report of the commission to assess the threat to the United States from electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack."

Here is the quote from chapter 6: Transportation infrastructure:




Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on running automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approximately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g., blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the 37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.

(emphasis added by tovenar)


IF the report has predictive value......Basically, EMP at levels below 50kV/m, motor vehicles for the large part will not be damaged by EMP.
edit on 14-3-2012 by tovenar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 01:31 AM
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Legs won't fail after an EMP.......

Just a thought



posted on Mar, 15 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by tovenar
 


Were any 2004+ "drive by wire" vehicles tested? What year were the vehicles?

I'm sorry but I work for major car manufacturer, no way those sophisticated cars would survive. They have electronics in the ashtray (hyperbole but you get my drift).

Before taking that test to the bank, you may want to remember a very old saying in the united states, "close enough, for government work".

edit on 15-3-2012 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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Originally posted by Evolutionsend
reply to post by tovenar
 


Were any 2004+ "drive by wire" vehicles tested? What year were the vehicles?


They only tested 1996-2003 vehicles and trucks. Still, that is an interesting result, considering some advice you get that all cars built after 1980 are automatically toast.

The most fascinating result was that no car which was not running during the test was effected. Every "doomsday EMP" scenario I've ever seen acted like every circuit in the world would be instantly fried. This tidbit makes the results far less dramatic.



I'm sorry but I work for major car manufacturer, no way those sophisticated cars would survive. They have electronics in the ashtray (hyperbole but you get my drift).


I certainly do.

But the operative variable is the length of the circuit that may be affected, and the number of antennas or ports that are open to electric input. Most autos have very short cable lengths (compared to electrical utilities), not enough to develop the amps that would do so much damage to infrastructure.



Before taking that test to the bank, you may want to remember a very old saying in the united states, "close enough, for government work".

edit on 15-3-2012 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)


Definitely. On the other hand, I have become convinced that terrorists or rogue states will not be able to field a 100MT bomb that would effect the whole USA with the sort of pulse that could take out every single car.

One thing the report points out is that cars after 2002 have much better insulated circuits and computer cards. The change wasn't due to concerns about EMP, but about the effect the car's own radio frequencies have on battery life. Every spark plug is also a spark-gap generator, and so car and trucks already have to deal with canceling out those impulses in their electronics.

The worst problem with EMP will not be individual systems like your car or hair dryer. The problems manifest in very large networks, with computer "gates" that control operations in a sequence. Things like networks of traffic lights are a total nightmare. Or the power grid serviced by a nuclear power plant. Or the SCADA system that remotely opens and closes valves for 1000 mile pipelines.

Grain of salt, yes.

For both the study results, and the doomsayers who act like we will be instantly teleported back to the Neolithic.
edit on 16-3-2012 by tovenar because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 09:50 AM
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It all depends on the strength of the EMP pulse and the shielding of the electronics. A Faraday Cage has been mentioned; the trunk of a car with a ferrous (containing iron) body is a Faraday Cage. The steel shielding around the control modules also functions as a Faraday Cage.

EMPs do damage by inducing very large voltages in conductors that 'fry' whatever they are attached to. Faraday Cages work by diverting the magnetic pulse around the conductors instead of through them, preventing this voltage spike. Considering that all gasoline engines already operate in the direct vicinity of continuous EMP pulses (yes, the high-voltage ignition is an EMP pulse generator) and thus are designed to handle dirty voltages, I really think all the hoopla about cars being turned into paperweights is just that - hoopla.

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 


According to other threads and articles I've read about constructing a faraday cage it must be an entirely closed metal box with all sides clearly touching (metal to metal). The rubber weather stripping on a trunk would make it pretty useless as a faraday cage.

If you've ever seen the pcm box under a hood, it is pretty much a simple metal box that could work as a faraday cage. Some of them use plastic ends though, I'm guessing those would not work as well.
edit on 16-3-2012 by Evolutionsend because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 16 2012 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by TheRedneck
 



With our little group of close friends we have a mechanic and he said he was going to pretty useless after an EMP because it isnt like the movies, but he'd take the can of pork and beans anyway.



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