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Speculation About TMA & Chemtrails

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posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Thought I might share something of interest I've been researching this afternoon, after a news report about rocket launches from a flight facility near my location later this month:


Launch madness will hit the east coast in March as NASA launches five rockets in approximately five minutes to study the high-altitude jet stream from its Wallops Flight Facility in Virginia.....The five rockets will release a chemical tracer that will form milky, white tracer clouds that allow scientists and the public to "see" the winds in space...

NASA ATREX

On the bottom of that page is a picture of a previous chemical-tracer mission in Alaska:


With this text:

Four trimethyl aluminum (TMA) trails from a prior mission flown from Poker Flat, Alaska, in February 2009. Credit: Miguel Larsen/Clemson Univ.


Here's the MSDS sheet for TMA:
TMA MSDS

Harmful if inhaled or swallowed. May cause eye, skin, and respiratory tract burns. Reacts violently with water or atmospheric moisture. Decomposes into irritating dust that may cause liver and kidney damage. Self-contained breathing apparatus and protective clothing must be worn by rescue workers.


And we all know how toxic aluminum can be, even without the MSDS sheet:
Natural News

Aluminum poisoning can lead to short and long term central nervous system (CNS) damage, such as memory impairments, autism, epilepsy, mental retardation, and dementia.
Research shows that just 4ppm of aluminum can cause the blood to coagulate. This is what causes Alzheimer's Disease and has been documented to inhibit learning. Aluminum consumption can also be associated with the development of bone disorders, including stress fractures.

That link covers more than aluminum, but I think you can get the picture

I'm a skeptic of chemtrails, and I though this would be an interesting read, and I hope you guys can come to your own conclusions. Anyway, hope you enjoyed it.




posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 04:31 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarist


And we all know how toxic aluminum can be, even without the MSDS sheet:
Natural News

Aluminum poisoning can lead to short and long term central nervous system (CNS) damage, such as memory impairments, autism, epilepsy, mental retardation, and dementia.
Research shows that just 4ppm of aluminum can cause the blood to coagulate. This is what causes Alzheimer's Disease and has been documented to inhibit learning. Aluminum consumption can also be associated with the development of bone disorders, including stress fractures.

That link covers more than aluminum, but I think you can get the picture


Yeah - utterly unsupported conclusions about what causes alzheimers stands out immediately.

the fact is that aluminium is not particularly toxic at all - and does nto actually exist in elemental form in an oxygen atmosphere - it almost instantly oxidises to Aluminium Oxide (Al2O3) which is one of het most inert substances around.

Moreover the dust in the atmoosphere you are breathing every second contains aluminium already, because much of it is dirt and a large proportion of the surface dirt of the earth is feldspars which include aluminium.

so much for the scaremongering woo......

Right - now the missions -


The Anomalous Transport Rocket Experiment (ATREX) is a Heliophysics sounding rocket mission that will gather information needed to better understand the process responsible for the high-altitude jet stream located 60 to 65 miles above the surface of the Earth.


Yep - these are going as high as 60+ miles - that is 300,000+ feet.

On page 43 of this 4mb PDF is a chart giving the payload-to-height capabilities of various rockets.

Assuming the 5 rockets in this programme used ALL their payload to carry TMA, they would carry:

2 x Terrier-Orions - 400lb (200lb ea to 200k feet max)
2 x Terrier-Malemutes - 1400 lb (2 x 700lb to 300k feet)

Terrier-improved Orion is not on that chart, but it's figures are available here - 800 lb to 75km - so let's call that 1600 lb.

So if the payloads weer exclusively TMA then that would be a total of 3400 lbs.

However the article also notes that 2 of the rockets will have instrumented payloads, plus of course the TMA will require a canister to hold it and a mechanism to release it - how much that leaves for TMA I don't know, but it is obviously going to be significantly less than 3400 lbs.

So how much of hazard to you really think some hundreds of pounds of this stuff is really going to be at 200k+ feet in the air??


And why do you think it is in any way related to "chemtrails" - or is it just thatit is a trail of chemicals?/



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarist

I'm a skeptic of chemtrails,


After rereading what you posted I don't think this is true at all.



posted on Mar, 8 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarist
And we all know how toxic aluminum can be, even without the MSDS sheet:


Yes, super toxic stuff. It's about as toxic as wood.





The point is that EVERYTHING is toxic in sufficient quantities. If you want to be throwing around scare stories about toxic substances, then you need to back it up with some figures. How much aluminum does the average person consume per day? 7mg, from food) How much would that be increased by the events that concern you? (effectively zero).



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 07:32 PM
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reply to post by Aquarist
 


Pretty scary stuff. Wallops has been used before for launches into the stratosphere. The east coast is so heavily populated that the chances are good a lot of people will see the launch and it will have to be explained so they warn ahead. California is different - a lot of rocket trails there never get explained.

I'm kind of surprised at how cavalier some posters on here are about what gets injected into the atmosphere. Eventually it all comes down. Good job on the ingredients though - pretty damning if you ask me.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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The use of TMA is harmless, as it burns in contact with oxygen to produce carbon dioxide, aluminum oxide, and water. All elements that are present in the atmosphere in the millions of tons.

The use it specifically because it react with oxygen. In the very thin air at the edge of space, the slow burn creates a glow that they can track.
edit on 9-3-2012 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by Uncinus
 





The use of TMA is harmless


I guess you didn't read the link that the OP put up. Oh and in the link it says it flames up in contact with atmosphere. That means that it sets the sky on fire. Happy days.



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


ROFL....given that Uncinus said that it burns on contact with O2, yes, I think he's perfectly aware.

Sets the sky on fire?? OMG OMG...we're all going to die.....

Millions of fires around the world burn billions of tons (at a guess) of material every year - all around you every day.

And you're trying to scaremonger about a few hundred pounds of material burning at 200,000+ feet?

You should be ashamed of being so silly!



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


You think the Aluminium is bad, you should check out the SODIUM LAYER that is at that altitude!

It's 5km thick and contains about 4 billion sodium atoms to the square meter!

And of course we all know how poisonous sodium is...


Very hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant). Hazardous in case of skin contact (permeator),
of ingestion, of inhalation. Inflammation of the eye is characterized by redness, watering, and itching. Skin inflammation is
characterized by itching, scaling, reddening, or, occasionally, blistering.


And...


Material is destructive to tissue of the mucous membranes and upper respiratory tract.


www.sciencelab.com...

I'm surprised we're not all dead with that layer of sodium above us poisoning the atmosphere.











edit on 9/3/12 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 09:58 PM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 





I'm surprised we're not all dead with that layer of sodium above us poisoning the atmosphere.


Your post sounds really smart and anybody who is interested can briefly look into it and undertand why it's not. I won't be doing that for anyone tonight. I'm just going to say to you and Gaul - fires on the ground aren't enough - we need them in the sky now? For an experiment? Just to see if we can set the sky on fire? Because it's there?



posted on Mar, 9 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


Fireworks.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 12:01 AM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


You've missed the point of it entirely it seems.

It clearly shows, that whatever is up at that level does not come down to affect us on the ground.

The layer of sodium is from meteors ablating, so it's logical to assume it's been there and accumulating for a few billion years.

The NASA experiment, with their payload of aluminium that will be dispersed in the same region of space will in no way affect us down here, at all.

This is the point I was trying to make.

If you can show how my conclusions are wrong, please do share.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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To those that replied:
Thanks for the S&Fs.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
Yeah - utterly unsupported conclusions about what causes alzheimers stands out immediately.
the fact is that aluminium is not particularly toxic at all - and does nto actually exist in elemental form in an oxygen atmosphere - it almost instantly oxidises to Aluminium Oxide (Al2O3) which is one of het most inert substances around.

Please read this link:
www.scielo.br...

Results showed that Al is associated to several neurophysiologic processes that are responsible for the characteristic degeneration of AD. In spite of existing polemics all over the world about the role of Al as a risk factor for AD, in recent years, scientific evidence has demonstrated that Al is associated with the development of AD.



Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
So how much of hazard to you really think some hundreds of pounds of this stuff is really going to be at 200k+ feet in the air??
And why do you think it is in any way related to "chemtrails" - or is it just thatit is a trail of chemicals?

See, I have no clue how toxic this stuff is in small doses. This is just my theory, I'm not saying "this is absolutely what's happening, no ifs, ands, or buts!!!"
Well they are releasing what you could say are chemtrails. You could even suggest that this is what they're spraying in normal chemtrails, if you believe in them.


Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
After rereading what you posted I don't think this is true at all.

Believe what you want, only I know my feelings about the issue.


Originally posted by Uncinus
Yes, super toxic stuff. It's about as toxic as wood.

Read the above link.


Originally posted by Uncinus
The use of TMA is harmless, as it burns in contact with oxygen to produce carbon dioxide, aluminum oxide, and water.

Could you please cite a source for this info? I haven't seen anything about that as of yet, but please enlighten me.



posted on Mar, 10 2012 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarist

Originally posted by Uncinus
The use of TMA is harmless, as it burns in contact with oxygen to produce carbon dioxide, aluminum oxide, and water.

Could you please cite a source for this info? I haven't seen anything about that as of yet, but please enlighten me.


en.wikipedia.org...

Trimethylaluminium is the chemical compound with the formula Al2(CH3)6, abbreviated as Al2Me6, (AlMe3)2 or the abbreviation TMA. This pyrophoric, colorless liquid is an industrially important organoaluminium compound. It evolves white smoke (aluminium oxides) when the vapor is released into the air.


en.wikipedia.org...

A pyrophoric substance (from Greek πυροφορος, purophoros, "fire-bearing") is a substance that will ignite spontaneously in air.


www1.nasa.gov...

NASA has used TMA for decades as part of rocket studies from sites worldwide to study the near-space environment. TMA burns slowly and produces visible light that can be tracked visually and with special camera equipment.

The products of the reaction when TMA is exposed to air or water are aluminum oxide, carbon dioxide and water vapor.



posted on Mar, 19 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Chadwickus
 



It clearly shows, that whatever is up at that level does not come down to affect us on the ground.



The NASA experiment, with their payload of aluminium that will be dispersed in the same region of space will in no way affect us down here, at all.

I don't think these statements are correct. Everything we do affects everything else. Our understanding of these relationships is stone age.

ATREX


The Anomalous Transport Rocket Experiment (ATREX) is a Heliophysics sounding rocket mission that will gather information needed to better understand the process responsible for the high-altitude jet stream located 60 to 65 miles above the surface of the Earth.


The high-altitude jet stream is higher than the one commonly reported in weather forecasts. The winds found in this upper jet stream typically have speeds of 200 to well over 300 mph and create rapid transport from the Earth's mid latitudes to the polar regions. This jet stream is located in the same region where strong electrical currents occur in the ionosphere. It is therefore a region with a lot of electrical turbulence, of the type that can adversely affect satellite and radio communications.


Layers of the Atmosphere


Above the mesosphere the thermosphere extends up to near 375 miles (600 km) above the earth. This layer is known as the upper atmosphere.


the temperature increases with height and can reach as high as 3,600°F (2,000°C) near the top of this layer; however, despite the high temperature, this layer of the atmosphere would still feel very cold to our skin because of the extremely thin air.


The Thermosphere


In the thermosphere and above, gas particles collide so infrequently that the gases become somewhat separated based on the types of chemical elements they contain.


Earth's thermosphere collapses


In this way he discovered that the thermospheric collapse of 2008-2009 was not only bigger than any previous collapse, but also bigger than the sun alone could explain.


trends in global climate could alter the composition of the thermosphere, changing its thermal properties and the way it responds to external stimuli.


This thermosphere is a part of the protection system for life on earth. Unfortunately for life on earth, it can interfere with communications of satellites. I think whatever protection it has afforded through the ages is going to be taking a back seat to interference with communication. The priorities seem a little bit off to me.



posted on Mar, 27 2012 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by luxordelphi
 


So lets just sit on our asses while a very little known part of our atmosphere changes over the last 40 years.

Cooling of the mesosphere and lower thermosphere due to doubling of CO2



This suggests that during the last 3±4 decades the thermal structure in the real upper atmosphere has undergone substantial changes driven by forcing comparable with that due to doubling of CO2.


What else would you like NASA and all the other high level scientists to do to study their associated fields?



posted on Mar, 28 2012 @ 12:41 AM
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reply to post by olliemc84
 




What else would you like NASA and all the other high level scientists to do to study their associated fields?



So lets just sit on our asses while a very little known part of our atmosphere changes over the last 40 years.

Well...since you ask...I would like the habit of injecting aluminum into various levels of the atmosphere to cease. I would like the habit of injecting metals and semi-metals, like silver iodide, into the atmosphere to cease. I would like computer modeling to take a front seat and injections to take a back seat. I would like human beings, regardless of geographical location, financial status, age and education level to be placed first, far ahead of communication problems.

I would like the practice of letting industry rule and finding ways to theoretically seemingly eliminate industry emissions by untested and dangerous practices to cease. I would like the great unwashed to come first and last and in the middle and to be ever present and ever cared for and considered in any testing of anything that has to do with the environment be it atmospheric injections or genetically altered seeds or war.





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