Israel asks U.S. for arms that could aid Iran strike(reuters)

reply to post by Irish614


Yes Israel has sown the seeds of her downfall many lives ago, that does not mean we must help her to go further down that road with all of us being dragged into the hell of her own making

If Israel really wanted to have a war with Iran, they would have started it ages back.
They would have bombed Irans nuke facilities like they bombed Iraqs.

Instead....the Israelis have been holding back because they know that exactly what they risk, if they try poking Iran.

reply to post by Lasr1oftheJedi

We've been supplying Israel with weapons, both physical (planes, guns, bombs, etc.) as well as non-physical (computer viruses, intel reports, satilite imagery, etc.) since pretty much it's founding.

Israel was created out of thin air, using a metaphor. Someone had to supply them, if they were to be taken seriously. The US was the super-power at the time able to make those decisions and supported Israel. And ally in that area was more important to the US than anything else that could backfire in the future. And that created the need to continuously supply Israel with more, and more and more.

The same happened in Africa when european countries pulled out. New countries were born out of nothing, mixing ethnic groups, cultures and tribes. Then people started giving them guns, to support one side of the other.

Go to Africa and look how that turned out.

Why is this so stunning that we'd assit in the means of ending a nation's nuke program when their leader has already stated the first thing he'll do with it is blow Israel off the map.

Because it's odd that such a remark is made regarding Iran, but not regarding other countries who do have nukes and are in fact unstable.

North Korea for instance is on the brink of national starvation. Massive portions of its population is starving, they are ruled by a regime that could only be seen in medieval times, they are desperate and running out of money by the day.

Yet, have they fired a nuke against South Korea or any other regional country, or even at U.S. forces, allied or not?

No.

So why are people actually accepting we do the "stop nuclear program thingy" against a country that is far more stable, far more democratic (albeit with a long way to go, still) and could actually kick a much more serious punch to the West? People have such deep double standards that it's unbelievable.

And it's funny you mention "their leader". Provably you don't remember his name, but Ahmadinejad actually lost power in last week elections.

But that doesn't go into western media, so you don't even know it.

And then, America, and the UK and anyone else he's in a twist about. Common enemy = military alliances. That song is as old as the first time cave men argued over hunting grounds.

Yes, and ignorance is old too.

There are multiple countries who are allied and don't mess with each-others business. Actually, my country (Portugal) and the UK have the oldest alliance in history, and still going.

Yet, we didn't participate in World War 2. We didn't participate in any other wars that the UK was part in after that.

Alliances doesn't mean "kissing butts".

Originally posted by stewiegriffin
reply to post by Chewingonmushrooms

 

What is the deal with everyone wanting to wait until they get attacked before they retaliate.

That is such bull#.

Iran has been given ample opportunity to comply. They refused so now they must be punished.

So the rule of things is that anybody that can get away with it can attack anybody they think 'might' want to attack them at some unspecified point in the future.

Thats the kind of world we want?

Thats the kind if thinking you only get from people who foolishly think they will always be top dog. Its 'might makes right' wrapped in a shiny suit.

The Iran excuse gives Israel great reasons to get arms and weapons from the US. Not needing the American people to vote about it must be great, It'll be over there in a moment. I think more money aid is to follow this perhaps?

reply to post by Tifozi



You presumed I didn't know his name, but really, I just couldn't spell it. Easier to type "their leader" than look it up. Kinda lazy I know, but whatever. That, no doubt, will be used to site some form of ignorance on my part as well.
As for North Korea, the real reason we don't do anything is because of their ties to China. We basically were forced into a "to take all of Korea means a war with China" back in the 50's. An already war worn nation from our engagements in Europe (you know, winning WW2 while you proudly proclaim how your nation sat back on it's haunches while your "ally", a term obviously used loosely by the Portuagese, was being carpet bombed.), decided it was in the region's best intrest to simply call it a draw. How fair that conclusion is will be left for arguement, but it seemed to work out for the South Korea's well enough.
China has already made it clear that N. Korea is her problem, and she'll deal with it. That's for the best, as the US is already too damned busy in the middle east to be fighting on the Asia theater again. The only one we could win was with the Japanese, and that took two nukes. Asias, tough as nails.
As for Israel, it's location isn't only based on biblical record, as well as the historical documents of several other nations throughout the ages (Egypt and Rome were both excellent record keepers), but it's stragetic value in the area is what the UK really wanted to hold on to. All important Jeruselem is more than just a holy city, it's a key stone location to the Mid-East through the Mediterian sea. This is why the Gaza strip makes headlines even though it's hardly a piece of land of any size. It's because it's sea board. Again, as a Portuagese, I would think you'd of all people would understand the value of having a key point strip of land, no matter how small, on a major water way.
And finally, to "pull out" of Israel would be to doom alot of people who's ancestors lost lives in Europe because of the nazis. The irony of the crime is no one did anything about Hitler when he was just "all talk", and now we have a chance to end this nonsense before Ahmadinejad can fulfill his promise. I think the US should handle it like we did Lybia to be honest. Incite some riots and keep an eye on it from the skies. Make sure no missles find thier way to any nation or their own populace. But as an ignorate citizen of this fine nation we call America, I don't have all the facts.

Why should Iran comply to inspectors when Israel doesnt have to? I know alot goes on for and against Israel but isnt it tragic a country created because of genocide commits the same act? I think we should let the Brits fund Israel. I like the idea of letting wars be fought w/ swords and martial arts. We'd see whos really dedicated to murder. Better yet, let the leaders of countries do the fighting. Netanyahu vs Ahmadinejad no holds barre with...ummm...axes? Obama vs al-Assad using...how about....staffs w glass shards in the end?

Originally posted by ken10
reply to post by stewiegriffin

 

I think they would use it against Israel.

Iran does not need a Nuke to destroy Israel, They have enough conventional missiles to do it already......But they haven't because they are not the villains they are being made out to be.

You are as paranoid as Israel !!!

This,

Iran has 7 times the population ,way bigger army , serious hardware... if iran really wanted ,israel would have been bey bey long ago. If israel attacks iran they will lose ,the only way for israel to win is for the U.S army to fight their battle for them with some israeli forces joining in just for show and pretty pictures on CNN.

And that is what israel wants , they want to attack another country but they want the U.S to fight the war for them like a good little boy.

Originally posted by Irish614
reply to post by stewiegriffin

 

I don't see why they "need" to comply. The United States has more Nukes than any other country and we go around telling people that they can't have them? If they want to use it for a power source then who cares? If they want to build a bomb with it, who cares? Just because they have the weapon doesn't mean they are going to use it.

This is such a dumbed down, narrow minded argument. To even begin to compare the country of Iran to the USA is ridiculous.

We're comparing two countries that are polar opposites here. The Iranian regime gaining nuclear weapons is no different than Hitler's Nazi regime gaining nuclear weapons. The Soviets gained nuclear weapons under Stalin and look what happened!

Because of this pacifist rebuttal that Iran deserves to have nuclear weapons because "the USA does" is so stupid I can't even begin to reply without turning this into a 2000 page essay. War is inevitable. It is just a question of who starts it. Apparently you would prefer a few European cities being destroyed before the war starts.

Iran must be stopped at all costs. It is a country led by maniacs..don't even get me started on the Ayatollah.

Originally posted by HellaKitty
reply to post by wlord

 

As far I know they got/bought them from russia
So pretty advanced I assume

Syria and Iran have both recently gone through air defense network upgrades from the Russians.

And didn't we already give Israel 2 seperate shipments of bunker busters?

I could have sworn there was a thread here about it.

Originally posted by Lasr1oftheJedi
reply to post by Tifozi

 

You presumed I didn't know his name, but really, I just couldn't spell it. Easier to type "their leader" than look it up. Kinda lazy I know, but whatever..

I prefer Alphabet-ijad, it's easier to remember.

Well, I don't put much stock into this theory, but as I understand it Purim continues/ends sometime today, the 8th? So far, nothing, but the day isn't over, however due to time zones I'm not sure. Anyway, I saw this article earlier: Does Netanyahu's Bible gift to Obama mean war? CNN link

What shocked me was that the gift was specifically the Book of Esther, which celebrates Purim, which is the story of the Jews annihilating the Persians...apparently Netanyahu also referenced this in an AIPAC speech earlier this week.

I haven't seen this "gift" mentioned on ATS this week, did I miss it?

reply to post by Danbones

You'ld think according to god's chosen people god would rightiously smite their ememies like in that novel they reference all the time.

Excatly, just let Israel fight it by themselves...if they are going to loose I'm sure God will come from the heavens to save the poor Israelites lol.

Ya'll do know that the advanced bunker buster's are actually....nuclear bunker busters. They just don't want to put the word nuclear in there because that might start a war right there.

Originally posted by coolpolitealex4
reply to post by Irish614

 

Yes Israel has sown the seeds of her downfall many lives ago, that does not mean we must help her to go further down that road with all of us being dragged into the hell of her own making

I never said that we should help Israel.

Iran must be stopped at all costs. It is a country led by maniacs..don't even get me started on the Ayatollah.

LMAO and America isn't run by maniacs? Keep watching CNN and Fox News and let them paint the picture of what the world "looks" like.

when a country like iran has the ability to hack and detect top secret stealth drones, what chance do israeli f-15 and f-16's have of making it to iran and destroying fortified nuclear bunker facilities.

israel won't do it alone because they know the chance of success is remote.

they need united states fire power to destroy irans atomic program.

Screw Israel they have their own weapons industry let them build what they need. Surely they have reverse engineered enough of our weapons that we gave them before they sold them. I would much rather see the hundreds of millions of dollars we give Israel in the form of weapons go towards rebuilding our own infrastructure.

reply to post by wlord


geimint.blogspot.com... no idea of how credible but this was one of the better maps and information i found on Iran's air defense.and as far as Syria's i couldn't find any maps (my google foo is weak) but a few articles saying how intimidating the Syrian defenses are compared to Gaddafi www.google.com... from 2 days ago but as i couldnt find a map this is the best i could do.

so after reading the thread it seems that in 2008 we gave them bunker busters and now they want the newer model and our help in in air refueling?

content.usatoday.com... another link i found with more information

news.yahoo.com... guess they didnt talk about it....

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Barack Obama and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu did not discuss in their meetings this week an Israeli request for advanced U.S. military technology that could be used against Iran, the White House said on Thursday. "In meetings the president had there was no such agreement proposed or reached," White House press secretary Jay Carney told reporters. Obama and Netanyahu meet in the Oval office for two hours on Monday and then had lunch together.

If Israel attack Iran nuclear facilities, its a declaration of war. And retaliation is acceptable in my opinion because

Israel attack nuclear facilities in Iran = making Chernobyl sites = using nuclear bomb

And the question is... what US will do after Israel make the first strike?

The religious nuts from US will support Israel
The dual-citizens in high power positions will support Israel
Ball-less politicians will not say a word against Israel

US will join Israel in the carnage

reply to post by NikolaiMacIntosh


Bravo!
Very interesting answer.

Because of this pacifist rebuttal that Iran deserves to have nuclear weapons because "the USA does" is so stupid I can't even begin to reply without turning this into a 2000 page essay.

I for one would really enjoy reading the longer version of why Iran shouldn't have nuclear weapons. I don't need to be convinced but there are many here who just don't seem to understand.