Question To Pro-Abortionists: Why Do People Say "You Have No Right To Tell A WOMAN What To Do To He

reply to post by Monsatan


Oh trust me I agree. I am "pro life" and believe it is a separate human being.....but not all think the same I do...

I was just giving a reason to why the comment is made.....well my opinion on why it is made

That is why I said it is a matter of semantics and one's beliefe on what exactly is inside the womb....

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by MissPoovey

 

And with the exception I mentioned before, a woman engaging in sex is making her choice. Just because the odds are in her favor (for no pregnancy) she needs to accept the outcome after the deed.

There are alot of other outcomes from sex.
Would you believe that an STD should be lived with because it could be a natural outcome of intercourse?
Would you live with the other outcomes? Crabs, lice, even the flu and common cold?
Or is birth the only outcome from sex you believe should be endured? While the outcomes that effect YOUR life can be taken care of medically? Just not a womans?
And in your world does the male impregnator have any duties? Or should he be expected to enjoy his violent assault and live happily ever after?

Ugh...nevermind. This is and has been a pointless discussion.

Originally posted by MissPoovey
There are alot of other outcomes from sex.
Would you believe that an STD should be lived with because it could be a natural outcome of intercourse?
Would you live with the other outcomes? Crabs, lice, even the flu and common cold?
Or is birth the only outcome from sex you believe should be endured? While the outcomes that effect YOUR life can be taken care of medically? Just not a womans?
And in your world does the male impregnator have any duties? Or should he be expected to enjoy his violent assault and live happily ever after?

Do you honestly equate an STD to a new human life? You thinking allowing a human life to grow inside is the same as a virus or bacteria that only destroys the infected? Do you consider pregnancy an infection??

As to your later questions, yes the father is as obligated as the mother. Are you calling sex a violent assault? Because my exception for abortion that was mentioned was rape. Of course, I do consider incest or to save the life of the mother the only two other exceptions. Convenience is never one.

The idea that one must remain a single mother, or parents must raise a kid when they don't have the means as a reason is barbaric IMO, when so many want to adopt.

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by MissPoovey
There are alot of other outcomes from sex.
Would you believe that an STD should be lived with because it could be a natural outcome of intercourse?
Would you live with the other outcomes? Crabs, lice, even the flu and common cold?
Or is birth the only outcome from sex you believe should be endured? While the outcomes that effect YOUR life can be taken care of medically? Just not a womans?
And in your world does the male impregnator have any duties? Or should he be expected to enjoy his violent assault and live happily ever after?

Do you honestly equate an STD to a new human life? You thinking allowing a human life to grow inside is the same as a virus or bacteria that only destroys the infected? Do you consider pregnancy an infection??

As to your later questions, yes the father is as obligated as the mother. Are you calling sex a violent assault? Because my exception for abortion that was mentioned was rape. Of course, I do consider incest or to save the life of the mother the only two other exceptions. Convenience is never one.

The idea that one must remain a single mother, or parents must raise a kid when they don't have the means as a reason is barbaric IMO, when so many want to adopt.

just a little off topic...

The virus/bacteria does not want to kill its host. The only thing it wants is to survive. Viruses that are well adepted to the human body are generally harmless and we live in coexistence with them and even get some benefits from them (see Human parvovirus B1)

reply to post by Inesophet


I didn't say anything about kill the host. STDs can destroy healthy human cells, destroy a persons fertility, or possibly even destroy the whole human host.

reply to post by Wolf321

You thinking allowing a human life to grow

Key word being "allowing." A woman allows a new life to be born. She should not, nor ever, be forced to be a conduit of that will that issues from elsewhere.

reply to post by windword


I would agree if by force we mean held down and not allowed to stab at her own insides to abort the child. However, I think that the whole process of allowing licensed medical professionals to perform abortions should be prohibited. *

If a woman wants to take the risk of getting pregnant, no matter how small, then she should be willing to take the risk of a back alley or self abortion.

*with the exceptions that I have already stated.

reply to post by Azadok


That Ipad was built by Chinese hands, It was built by a tortured soul who has very few choices. Work as a human slave to make barely enough money to survive or perish. Can this person really ever hope to know a normal life? Are you aware of the practice of the Chinese to force abortions on female factory workers rather than see them slow down or lose them? That's your choice, slave away to make garbage for the first world or perish.

Who do you directly support with your purchase? You support the largest abortion factory on the planet. A place where the extremes of poverty coupled with intense competition for scant resources see's so many die. It also reinforces the popular practice of selective abortion, what use is a female baby when you are allowed but one and you are so impoverished that you either secure a male heir to support you or you nearly ruin your chances at survival once your body is worn and broken from countless hours of labor.

Yes I can easily draw a direct parallel between the choices you make as a consumer and it's impact on humanity. You may falsely believe you are not culpable but you are, it's easy to pretend that you have nothing to do with the socioeconomic tragedy that occurs half a world away but you do.

Please do keep speaking of dogma again though, it is the greatest escape from personal responsibility ever known.

Originally posted by LaughingatHumanity
reply to post by Azadok

 

That Ipad was built by Chinese hands, It was built by a tortured soul who has very few choices. Work as a human slave to make barely enough money to survive or perish. Can this person really ever hope to know a normal life? Are you aware of the practice of the Chinese to force abortions on female factory workers rather than see them slow down or lose them? That's your choice, slave away to make garbage for the first world or perish.

Who do you directly support with your purchase? You support the largest abortion factory on the planet. A place where the extremes of poverty coupled with intense competition for scant resources see's so many die. It also reinforces the popular practice of selective abortion, what use is a female baby when you are allowed but one and you are so impoverished that you either secure a male heir to support you or you nearly ruin your chances at survival once your body is worn and broken from countless hours of labor.

Yes I can easily draw a direct parallel between the choices you make as a consumer and it's impact on humanity. You may falsely believe you are not culpable but you are, it's easy to pretend that you have nothing to do with the socioeconomic tragedy that occurs half a world away but you do.

Please do keep speaking of dogma again though, it is the greatest escape from personal responsibility ever known.

edit on 7-3-2012 by LaughingatHumanity because: (no reason given)

one big LOL

finding a job in china is extremly easy. dont like to work at foxconn No problem there are dozens of companies who would love to hire.

You know what the chinese say about america right now?

that you are slaves. At least in china people can change their job quick and easy if they dont like it. In America the boss is forcing people to work longer harder and with less pay or they fire you. Because the bosses know that there are 100 people in a row looking for YOUR job.

I know Personally several foxconn workers. They mostly dont like the job but the pay is great you can live at the company (no rent) there are cafeterias (safe money again) and it looks great on your CV. In china even a unlearned worker can find a new job in days.

Most people are now well educated and they have a pretty good choice on where they want to work. With the "abortoplex" things are more open here.


China is becoming a open society slowly but surely. They are not burdened by many morals that western people have. I lived in many countries over the years but the level of personal (thats importend!!!) freedom in china is really high.

You can (can doesnt mean should) do whatever you want as long you dont hurt others. Isnt that what freedom really means?

there has been a time or 2 in my childrens life
that I have wished abortion was legal up to the age of 21.

What can a newborn baby possibly be thinking? Can you even think without being born and opening your eyes to the world?

Because until the fetus is viable, it is inexorably part of the mother's body. It's not about men vs. women; it's about the simple biological fact that only a chromatically female person (aka a woman) can carry a child, and this is why the specific moniker of "woman" is used in the arena abortion.

Until guys can start throwing 7 lb pieces of flesh out the top of our *bleep*, then this has got to be a gender issue. A guy telling a woman that she shouldn't have a right to abort is like a woman telling a man he shouldn't have the right to drink beer or something. It is just unAmerican and unnatural. There are way too many victimless crimes in this country. I personally believe it is more messed up to bring a kid into this world with how things are going.

Here is a good motto that everyone needs to start reciting in the morning when they wake up and in the evening before they go to sleep. "If it doesn't directly affect me, then it doesn't concern me".

reply to post by ventian

Oooh, that is dangerous thinking. Mottos like that are why TPTB have gradually slipped into power - they lay the groundwork for causing some new previously-illegal power to become legal, with clauses that mean that it will directly affect next to nobody. ...And then, they change the terms and conditions.

Consider the whole 'child porn issue in Canada'. Most people are not involved with child porn, right? And besides, if you don't support your ISP surveilling you, then you are with the child pornographers. Because we know that they would never misuse their new child-pornographer-stopping power on the average citizen.

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Frankly, this issue can be solved with very little analysis.
"Killing an unborn child"
"Erasing an unwritten book"
"Demolishing an unbuilt building"
ect.

The verb can only apply to the direct object if the direct object exists. But, the adjective tied to the object dictates that the object does not exist. It is only when we apply this logic elsewhere that we see it is fallacious. The two words as a couplet form an oxymoron. You can't have an 'unborn child' just the same as you can't have an 'un-composed song'. The words are incompatible.

A building does not become a building until it is built. A book does not become a book until it is written. A child does not become a child until it is born.

Think, people.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Why be gender specific if gender is not the topic

Because when it comes to the topic of abortion, gender IS the issue. How many men do you know who have had abortions?

But fine....how's this? I don't think it's right for one PERSON to tell another PERSON what to do with their body. Whether it's having an abortion or stopping smoking. Now yes, I understand that at 6 months or so a baby in a womb is a living breathing human. I get that. And if you look at the odds, a 1 day old fetus is very likely to get to that stage so for all intents and purposes, it too is a living, functioning human. The age of the fetus shouldn't be the issue. The issue here is people imposing their will, viewpoints, and morals on others.

So a woman has an abortion at 6 months thereby killing a human life. What's it to you? Really? SHE is the one who has to live with that decision. Right or wrong. Not you. And people can bring up the point of other people who can't have babies all they want who would be happy to adopt. They can bring up every alternative to abortion there is.That's beside the point. You think the woman having the abortion doesn't know this? Quit assuming that a woman who has an abortion doesn't know anything and THAT'S why she's having it.

It says alot about a persons intelligence when they insult others'.



( Sorry to rant all over YOUR rant, and if this isn't your viewpoint then I'm not ranting at you.)

reply to post by ModernAcademia


There is no such thing as a pro abortionist.


Nobody wants to end a fetal life they just say that women have a right to and will not deny them that right.

There are those who do not want to force women to do what a man does not have to do with his body.
Many people will allow it is legal (if not desirable) for a medical doctor to terminate that potential life in the early stages of conception. You may not like it but it is and should be the woman's choice what to do with her body and contents. Men would not be forced to carry to term if the shoe were on the other foot - don't kid yourself. Like the old joke, if men could get pregnant - abortion clinics would be open 24/7 and have bars in them. You know it's true.

Originally posted by Wolf321
reply to post by windword

 

I would agree if by force we mean held down and not allowed to stab at her own insides to abort the child. However, I think that the whole process of allowing licensed medical professionals to perform abortions should be prohibited. *

If a woman wants to take the risk of getting pregnant, no matter how small, then she should be willing to take the risk of a back alley or self abortion.

*with the exceptions that I have already stated.

edit on 7-3-2012 by Wolf321 because: (no reason given)

A great idea and along with it I propose the death penalty for rapist.

Since the complications and end result of that act would be more serious than previously it was.

Originally posted by Wolf321

Originally posted by MissPoovey
There are alot of other outcomes from sex.
Would you believe that an STD should be lived with because it could be a natural outcome of intercourse?
Would you live with the other outcomes? Crabs, lice, even the flu and common cold?
Or is birth the only outcome from sex you believe should be endured? While the outcomes that effect YOUR life can be taken care of medically? Just not a womans?
And in your world does the male impregnator have any duties? Or should he be expected to enjoy his violent assault and live happily ever after?

Do you honestly equate an STD to a new human life? You thinking allowing a human life to grow inside is the same as a virus or bacteria that only destroys the infected? Do you consider pregnancy an infection??

As to your later questions, yes the father is as obligated as the mother. Are you calling sex a violent assault? Because my exception for abortion that was mentioned was rape. Of course, I do consider incest or to save the life of the mother the only two other exceptions. Convenience is never one.

The idea that one must remain a single mother, or parents must raise a kid when they don't have the means as a reason is barbaric IMO, when so many want to adopt.

Please...women die giving birth on a fairly regular basis....recently a woman bled to death and her family is suing the hospital since other wise she was perfectly healthy. It is dangerous to give birth and men who do not think so do not have a clue what they are talking about.

You are asking woman to literally risk her life, (forget about her career, hopes and dreams) and carry fully to term because you maintain a tiny bundle of cells without capacity for feeling or thought is already an infant. It is the start of an infant to be sure but it is likely to be naturally aborted during the first 3 months and is still a long way from being an infant. Otherwise every miscarriage would be reported in the paper and accompanied by a funeral.

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Firstly it implies a men vs. women topic
...
Why be gender specific if gender is not the topic but having a right on one's own body.

If we're talking about abortion, then it IS gender specific. Women are the only ones who can get a medical abortion. That's why they say that. If we were talking about circumcision or prostate exams, then we'd be talking about men.

The larger picture is that all people should be autonomous, but in this specific situation, it's women who are being told what to do with their bodies because THEY are the ones who get pregnant.

Are you for real with this question, or did you just want to start another abortion thread because they go on for days?

reply to post by ModernAcademia

Why be gender specific if gender is not the topic but having a right on one's own body. They can refer to both pregnant women and gays at the same time.

Because males, straight or gay, can not bare children, they are not equipped for the task. So as long as the topic is about abortion, and a female is the only candidate for having said abortion, it makes sense to use the term woman.

I'm not sure why, people who tend to take the side of issues you do, always play this game. By saying "you can't tell a woman what to do with her body" it's freaking IMPLIED that goes for telling a man what he can and can't do as well.

Why on earth, when dealing with such a touchy subject, would you decided to author a thread arguing semantics?

Are you for real with this question, or did you just want to start another abortion thread because they go on for days?

ding ding ding we have a winner